Game is unplayable without Internet connection!

[1131989 223]

Hello! I recently installed SC4 (rereleased Aspyr port + Mavericks) and have found that if I don't have an active Internet connection and I have the NAM installed, all of the text in the game is missing and I am immediately warped to a blank region! I cannot play cities without the game crashing unless I delete roughly half of my plugins, including the NAM. Has anyone else reported this issue? Any help?

[memo 1,460]

Thanks for pointing that out. This happened to me, too, when I was on a train the other day, but I did not figure out it was due to a missing internet connection. I can now replicate the issue reliably and will see if I can locate a cause.

 

Still, I am wondering why an internet connection would make any difference, in the first place…

[1131989 223]

Thanks. It is annoying having to create separate cities when I have no internet.

[foist 7]

Unplugged my internet connection to confirm this, sure enough...

 

I just installed the NAM yesterday, but I hadn't tried playing while offline before this morning.  Why would the NAM have any effect in this regard?

[foist 7]

I don't have the expertese to track down this problem, but I did try a few things just to see what would happen.

 

The first time I started game with no connection (but with the NAM installed) the game created two new (mostly empty) region folders:

"(2)" Contained only a region.ini file
"timbuktu (2)" Contained nothing, was just an empty folder

Removed only the "Network Addon Mod" folder from Plugins (leaving "z___NAM" folder in Plugins), and game wouldn't boot, immediately got a crash notice.

Removed only "z___NAM" folder (leaving "Network Addon Mod" in Plugins) and game opened to a blank region again, and created two more blank regions:

"(3)"
"timbuktu (3)" Both were empty folders.

I didn't click on any cities this time (I did the first time), probably why the region.ini file was created in region "timbuktu (2)" above.

This time the game didn't crash (since I didn't click on a city?) - I was able to quit without a crash by clicking the quit button (though the text was missing from the confirm dialog).

 

I've got some other custom content installed - terrain, tree, and water mods, some power plants, a few other things.  The game seemed to run with no problems with these active and no internet connection.  I only had problems when the "Network Addon Mod" or "z___NAM" folders were installed. 

[NCGAIO 562]

Still, I am wondering why an internet connection would make any difference, in the first place…

 

Surely it should not make any ... then remembering an old Portuguese saying. 

 

" Jaboti do not climb trees so if it is there at the top of the tree or has been  a flooding, or has been hand of people.."  

[memo 1,460]

Apparently, there is a bug that restricts the maximum number of files you can have in your plugins. If an internet connection is missing, this limit is reduced significantly: somewhere at around 80 files the game starts to get very glitchy, and with few more files starts to crash when you enter a city, and with one or two more files, it already crashes in region view or before.

 

(Edit: Might have miscounted the number of files. Still, it is below 200. This happens even with an empty folder structure in your plugins.)

 

It seems to be the same problem that was reported in another topic, but with an internet connection, the limit seems to be somewhere between 4000 and 8000 files.

 

By all appearance, this issue is not caused by anything specific to the NAM. You can circumvent this by datpacking your plugins into fewer files.

  Edited May 3, 2014 by memo  

[bluegoose 2]

Apparently, there is a bug that restricts the maximum number of files you can have in your plugins. If an internet connection is missing, this limit is reduced significantly: somewhere at around 80 files the game starts to get very glitchy, and with few more files starts to crash when you enter a city, and with one or two more files, it already crashes in region view or before.

 

It seems to be the same problem that was reported in another topic, but with an internet connection, the limit seems to be somewhere between 4000 and 8000 files.

 

By all appearance, this issue is not caused by anything specific to the NAM. You can circumvent this by datpacking your plugins into fewer files.

Deal-breaker if true.

Is that merely your experience or is that a confirmed bug?

[NCGAIO 562]

Well ... by definition "a bug"  apparently should be something not intentionally !

 

Deal - breaker, maybe! Although the ability to deal with third-party plugins has been never a real concern for Aspyr and say that within the context hired for porting this game should not even have been something considered. 

[1131989 223]

Guess I'll have to take out the NAM whenever I play offline...which means I have to segregate cities and reintegrate them later. Can I "dat-pack" the NAM on a Mac? I have no Windows installed and having to install it would completely defeat the purpose of buying the OSX version on the App Store.

[memo 1,460]

Deal-breaker if true.

Is that merely your experience or is that a confirmed bug?

 

Well, it is my experience, but I ran extensive tests to support this. As you hit a limit with your plugins, too, maybe you can confirm this observation by datpacking your plugins to reduce the total number of files in order to test whether you can add more plugins that way.

 

Guess I'll have to take out the NAM whenever I play offline...which means I have to segregate cities and reintegrate them later. Can I "dat-pack" the NAM on a Mac? I have no Windows installed and having to install it would completely defeat the purpose of buying the OSX version on the App Store.

 

According to sargeantcm (see ), it is possible to run SC4DatPacker using Wine. I myself am new to Wine and, to be honest, have not managed to get it to work yet.

[1131989 223]

Thanks SO much but way too complicated for me! If I wanted to use Wine I'd have just bought the Windows version...sort of defeats the whole purpose of buying the Aspyr port (I don't like that highly sophisticated computer stuff). 

 

I will add a screenshot as my way of thanking all of you!

[1131989 223]

Thanks! Here's a screenshot from one of my cities.

[bluegoose 2]

Memo,

I've never heard of data-packing. How is it done?

[memo 1,460]

@1131989: Let's just hope that Aspyr fixes this issue. At least, I have reported it in their support system.

 

Memo,
I've never heard of data-packing. How is it done?

 

Usually, it refers to the process of repackaging your plugins into few large dat files using SC4DatPacker (available here). This is recommended if you have lots of plugins because it makes the game start up much faster and can slightly improve overall performance.

[MayorTim 16]

I've experienced this exact problem myself, and it's been the bane of my Simcity 4 experience. Had I known, I honestly probably wouldn't have paid for the port.

 

Once the situation became untenable, I ended up trashing my region and my plugins folder (which was at 2.4gb, and I'd spent a lot of the last two weeks downloading). I've since been more selectively re-downloading, and I've organized my plugins folder in a way that allows me to only load plugins for specific cities (for example, I won't be putting any seaport or industry BAT's in my plugins while playing downtown, and I won't put any skyscrapers in my plugins when playing everything else.)

 

So far, so good. I can't independently confirm if datpacking is a way around this issue, as when I tried it with my first plugins folder, it deleted dozens of necessary files that it considered "usesless" after which the game wouldn't even start. I'll probably try again though sometime next week, or whenever it is that I hit the bug again.

 

EDIT: I also submitted a support request to Aspyr, and I suggest everyone encountering this issue do the same (they will be much more likely to fix it.) I'll let everyone know when I get a response.

[memo 1,460]

Thanks SO much but way too complicated for me! If I wanted to use Wine I'd have just bought the Windows version...sort of defeats the whole purpose of buying the Aspyr port (I don't like that highly sophisticated computer stuff). 

 

I have just written a simple cross-platform dat-packing utility of my own. All you need is a Java Runtime Environment, so it should be easy to get it to work. See here (still an early version).

 

EDIT: I also submitted a support request to Aspyr, and I suggest everyone encountering this issue do the same (they will be much more likely to fix it.) I'll let everyone know when I get a response.

 

So have I. They already replied today, but so far basically have just asked for more information.

 

 

Edit: In this minute, I received the following unfortunate response:

 

The command prompting functionality and plugins are not supported with the App Store re-release of SimCity 4 Deluxe. We will be removing it fully in an update but it is not supported as the forum instructions are for the PC version.

  Edited May 5, 2014 by memo  

[MayorTim 16]

Beyond terrible news. Wonderful idea, Aspyr. Just wonderful.

 

I'll definitely have to check out your datpacker, though. That would be incredibly useful!

[NCGAIO 562]

Firstly congratulation for rapid intervention in the creation of the tool to datapacked though I think this kind of thing only encourages companies that seem only interested in milking unsuspecting consumers to continue to do things like this and leave the problems for others to solve. 

 

And although the recommendation to date pack the NAM is exactly the opposite of what has always been given it seems that there will not be even other alternative for who want  to use it offline.  

 

In the end it is worth noting that the comment posted at the news that is repeated in the  thread really translates what motivates these releases. " Maybe a side effect of demand for SC4 after the release of SimCity 2013 "

 

Regarding the response of  Aspyr ... 

 

 

It seems that the current motto of the big game companies is "Give me your money but please do not bother us with small details"

[Call 0]

I noticed this problem at work when trying to play.  The game worked perfectly at home and also at my assigned fire station (both of which have wifi).  However, while detailed into a different firehouse (one of two that has no wifi), the game crashed.  I was certain it was a bad plugin or mod, so I began replacing them one by one, hoping to identify the problem, but could not isolate it to one thing.  I brought it home the next morning, started it up, replaced my plugins folder, and the game worked.  Then yesterday, again, I was at the other firehouse with no wifi, and the game crashed.  That's when I narrowed it down to the internet connection.  I was coming on tonight to make a thread on this very topic, only to find that you guys are way ahead of me.  Thankfully, the other ten stations have wifi!

 

What I find strange is that I have no part of the NAM installed, yet still it crashes out; my plugins amount to just over 1 gb.  I get the same blank region, lack of type, and Timbuktu (2) thing.  Are you sure that NAM is part of the problem, or am I misreading this?

[MayorTim 16]

I noticed this problem at work when trying to play.  The game worked perfectly at home and also at my assigned fire station (both of which have wifi).  However, while detailed into a different firehouse (one of two that has no wifi), the game crashed.  I was certain it was a bad plugin or mod, so I began replacing them one by one, hoping to identify the problem, but could not isolate it to one thing.  I brought it home the next morning, started it up, replaced my plugins folder, and the game worked.  Then yesterday, again, I was at the other firehouse with no wifi, and the game crashed.  That's when I narrowed it down to the internet connection.  I was coming on tonight to make a thread on this very topic, only to find that you guys are way ahead of me.  Thankfully, the other ten stations have wifi!

 

What I find strange is that I have no part of the NAM installed, yet still it crashes out; my plugins amount to just over 1 gb.  I get the same blank region, lack of type, and Timbuktu (2) thing.  Are you sure that NAM is part of the problem, or am I misreading this?

 

Other than contributing to the size of your plugins folder, I don't (think) the NAM is the cause. Without an internet connection, the bug apparently occurs with only a few hundred mb's of plugins.

[1131989 223]

I asked and got the same message: "The command prompting functionality and plugins are not supported with the App Store re-release of SimCity 4 Deluxe. We will be removing it fully in an update but it is not supported as the forum instructions are for the PC version."

 

Very unfortunate and hopefully they are not going to yank out all the plugins that I've already downloaded...

[MayorTim 16]

This is the reply that I got:

 

Hi Tim,

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Yes, our main focus was to update the base default game with the Rush Hour expansion pack. With downloading plug-ins (some almost a decade old) from multiple websites to test through the game was not part of the initial development process.

However, we are willing to look into it further but we'd like to get some details first. What exactly is being downloaded and from where? Are the plug in files being inserted into the app icon itself or the game's Containers folder?

Thank you.
Aspyr Support

 

Interesting. Perhaps they're starting to hear the noise? Though it is more likely she was only being optimistic.

[memo 1,460]

@NCGAIO: I know what you mean…

 

As for datpacking the NAM, it is not recommended to datpack the NAM and throw away the original files, but datpacking the NAM, while keeping all the original files intact in a separate folder is fine.

 

This is the reply that I got:

 

Hi Tim,

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Yes, our main focus was to update the base default game with the Rush Hour expansion pack. With downloading plug-ins (some almost a decade old) from multiple websites to test through the game was not part of the initial development process.

However, we are willing to look into it further but we'd like to get some details first. What exactly is being downloaded and from where? Are the plug in files being inserted into the app icon itself or the game's Containers folder?

Thank you.
Aspyr Support

 

Interesting. Perhaps they're starting to hear the noise? Though it is more likely she was only being optimistic.

 

That's about what they replied to me, too:

 

"Yes, we are referring to the cheats console. Our initial focus with the updated release was the base game and default game files. Implementing plugins from multiple websites (some almost a decade old) has just recently been brought to our attention. It is not fully out of the question on if we will look into supporting that feature in the future. That [disabling of plugins loading functionality and cheats] will apply to both Steam and App Store versions. Maxis published plugins [i.e. official Maxis Landmarks] are tested and developed solely for the PC version and are not tested by Aspyr."

 

And in a previous response:

 

"Thank you for contacting Aspyr Support. We’re sorry you’re experiencing issues with SimCity 4 Deluxe. What exactly are you placing inside the Plugins folder and where did you get the files? Are they being placed in the Plugins folder from the app icon or the game's Containers folder?"

 

[Compdude787 916]

That's kind of odd that Aspyr is assuming that the plugins are ten years old. Obviously they are not aware of the extensive modding community that is still going strong and is keeping this decade-old game alive. It seems that they are assuming the plugins we're using are from the SC4 website/ exchange that no longer exists. They really need to make it so that it you can use plugins. Has anyone asked them about applying the EP1 patch as well as the BAT night lighting patch?

[MayorTim 16]

I replied back that I'd individually tested my plugins and was mainly using plugins from within the last 4-5 years, and they have asked me to send them my plugins folder as a .zip, both before and after crashing, as well as a crash log.

 

The problem is, I rebuilt my plugins folder after running into the issue the first time, and I'm about 850mb short of encountering the bug.

 

Memo, do you still have access to a plugins folder that causes crashing? If not I suppose I'll try to replicate it for them, but that's a lot of work just to make my game crash. 

 

EDIT: So, while trying to do it myself, I completely removed the NAM and was able to get the game to function with 2.38gb. Odd.

 

EDIT 2: I've gotten up to 2.6gb, minus the NAM, and it works. Could anyone experiencing the bug try completely removing the NAM to see if that fixes it?

[memo 1,460]

Memo, do you still have access to a plugins folder that causes crashing? If not I suppose I'll try to replicate it for them, but that's a lot of work just to make my game crash. 

 

I don't. But remember that in my tests the crashes were caused by the number of files, not the size of the plugins folder. Just add some more emtpy folders and it will eventually crash. Or spread your files across more subfolders to make it less contrived. Or duplicate some of your plugins. Even multiple copies of a single file will cause CTDs.

[1131989 223]

So they're actually going to fix the problem? From the message about plugins not being supported, I was under the impression that in a future update they would remove the ability to use plugins that were already downloaded (even though EA/Maxis had inserted a mod/plugin folder themselves and even released a building and lot editor). For a second, I was convinced Aspyr was even more soulless than EA.

[Sabretooth78 808]

You guys should seriously just consider running the PC version under Wine.  My setup runs beautifully, and it's no lightweight.  Better than it did under Parallels (not to mention a much smaller HD footprint) and I would argue at least as well as Aspyr did when I tried it.  Sure, the prospect of full native is attractive but it can be had for less than the Aspyr port without all the quirks.  Then you can use dlls, NAM and all other custom content just as it's intended on a PC (not to mention that the content creators then don't need to waste precious effort worrying about building to/alienating you).  You can even have the various 3rd party tools (datpacker, region census, reader, etc.) installed within the same App package.  I have yet to run into something that doesn't work; aside from being able to run in hardware mode (which I never did anyway).

 

If there is demand to do so, I would be more than happy to draft up a step-by-step tutorial.  The whole process sounds intimidating but it is not difficult at all.

[MayorTim 16]

I tried it under wine once and failed miserably. Though admittedly, that was nearly a year ago. I'd prefer to continue using the mac port with file juicer and just missing out on a few of the goodies, but if Aspyr really does remove plugins from their port, I'd definitely be interested in that tutorial.