New Zealand and the United States resume military cooperation

[astronelson 339]

The US will allow New Zealand navy ships to enter its waters next year, ending a 27-year military embargo started after New Zealand forbade the entry of nuclear-armed or nuclear-powered vessels to its ports.

 

The embargo came with the suspension of the ANZUS treaty. Subsequently the US was allied to Australia, Australia allied to New Zealand, but the US was not allied to New Zealand, providing the world a demonstration of the fact that alliances are not a transitive relation.

 

Link.

[AkemiAzula 280]

Indeed. How very odd of them. I suppose their logic was that the request to bar entry to nuclear vessels was illogical?

 

At any rate it would appear ANZUS is back. I suppose I am indifferent to that, I think.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Interesting that there was such an anti-nuclear backlash in New Zealand.  But then silly people do silly things when some one says 'atomic power'.  This applies to a lot of people in the world who still have a bad case of nuclear cafard.  Nuclear systems have become endemic, and using small nuclear systems to power satellites has been around for a long time, especially among the Russians.

[astronelson 339]

The concern was primarily about nuclear weapons and fallout - nuclear testing was done on Australia and in the South Pacific. Issue was also taken with Reagan's aggressive stance against the USSR, with fears New Zealand may become a target if the Cold War became Hot.

The ban was (and still is) on nuclear-armed and nuclear-powered ships, but with the US Navy's refusal to confirm nor deny the presence of nuclear weapons on specific ships, it was effectively a ban on all US military ships.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

How many are now living who remember the Pacific H-Bomb tests?  It was truly regrettable.

 

In case nobody noticed, Regan's attitude brought an end to the Cold War.  Clearly this was yet another piece of knee-jerk legislation brought about by unreasoning pols driven by unwarranted fears.  This is the kind of legislation that gives countries a bad reputation in many quarters. 

 

What would the Kiwi reaction be if we wanted to dock one of our nuclear powered ice breakers in one of their ports?  U.S. is not the only country with nuclear powered ships.

[Joe 90 358]

It might have started with American testing, but it was the French nuclear tests (and subsequent actions of French govt agents) that really got up our noses.

What would the Kiwi reaction be if we wanted to dock one of our nuclear powered ice breakers in one of their ports?  U.S. is not the only country with nuclear powered ships.

They would be politely told to dock somewhere else, like Australia. Same as any other nuclear ship.

[LexusInfernus 908]

In case nobody noticed, Regan's attitude brought an end to the Cold War.  Clearly this was yet another piece of knee-jerk legislation brought about by unreasoning pols driven by unwarranted fears.  This is the kind of legislation that gives countries a bad reputation in many quarters. 

No he didn't. Thats like saying America liberated Europe from the Nazis. They helped, but it was a team effort. So was the fall of the Soviet Union. Reagan was one little factor along with a whole range of other factors that brought about the collapse of the Soviet Union. 

[catty-cb 4,381]

It wasn't just France and America using the Pacific for Nuclear testing, Britain was as well, and the legislation only stops

 

 

entry into the internal waters of New Zealand 12 nautical miles (22.2 km/ 13-13/16 statute miles) radius by any ship whose propulsion is wholly or partly dependent on nuclear power" and bans the dumping of radioactive waste within the nuclear-free zone, as well as prohibiting any New Zealand citizen or resident "to manufacture, acquire, possess, or have any control over any nuclear explosive device

 

it doesn't stop us having "nuclear power plants, nuclear research facilities, the use of radioactive isotopes, or other land-based nuclear activities"

 

I can remember how worried people were given the number of nuclear bomb tests other countries were doing in the Pacific and the fact that tests were showing that the background radiation levels were going up ... not by much, but it was enough to have people really worried about what would happen if the testing continued.

 

The legislation was in part to stop the ships that were doing the testing coming anywhere near us, and to make life as difficult as possible for them as they could no longer use any of our harbours.

 

-catty

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

@LexusInfernus:  Without Regan's attitude and the Star Wars program he supported, the USSR might still be around.  Their attempt to develop a counter put them in a bad financial way.  I don't think the rest of us had that kind of clout.  The fall of communist governments in Europe and the dissolution of the Iron Curtain was inevitable once the Soviet Union ran out of money.  Many of us stood on the side lines applauding.  The very idea that the Americans won WW II in Europe is rather silly.  They arrived in the nick of time to take credit for the whole event, but their pacifism was one of the base causes.  Try the scenario with Wendell Wilkie in the White House instead of FDR.  The German-American Bund was well embedded and might have succeeded even more.  Just think about an alternative time line.

 

To the Kiwis:  Don't you think this last echo of the Cold War could now be repealed?  Oz is a bit far for a local anchorage.

[LexusInfernus 908]

@LexusInfernus:  Without Regan's attitude and the Star Wars program he supported, the USSR might still be around.  Their attempt to develop a counter put them in a bad financial way.  I don't think the rest of us had that kind of clout.  The fall of communist governments in Europe and the dissolution of the Iron Curtain was inevitable once the Soviet Union ran out of money.  Many of us stood on the side lines applauding.  The very idea that the Americans won WW II in Europe is rather silly.  They arrived in the nick of time to take credit for the whole event, but their pacifism was one of the base causes.  Try the scenario with Wendell Wilkie in the White House instead of FDR.  The German-American Bund was well embedded and might have succeeded even more.  Just think about an alternative time line.

 

To the Kiwis:  Don't you think this last echo of the Cold War could now be repealed?  Oz is a bit far for a local anchorage.

Thanks to the wonderful inefficiency of the Soviet economic system they would have run out of money anyways. Combine that with a costly war in Afghanistan and increasing internal pressure from citizen groups clamoring for more personal and political freedom as well as Gorbachov's attempt to give people that freedom and the fall of the Soviet Union was pretty much inevitable. All Reagan did perhaps was hasten that fall by a few years. But contributing the end of the Cold War to Reagan is just historical nonsense. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Good theatre for the American public, though.  Large historical events never have a single cause, however, when you consider that the USSR's main protagonist was the U.S., it does no harm to smile on Ronny, who has left this mortal coil in tragic circumstances.

[catty-cb 4,381]

...To the Kiwis:  Don't you think this last echo of the Cold War could now be repealed?  Oz is a bit far for a local anchorage.

 

307 nuclear bomb tests that the various countries admitted to setting off in the Pacific, who knows how many tests they really did do ... of which 146 were atmospheric and their so called weather experts in some cases should have been jailed for OKing some of those tests due to the number of people that died as a result of the radiation fallout.

 

EDIT: And the last French test was done on the 27 January 1996 at Moruroa Atoll, so you can't describe that as belonging to the Cold War

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The French always thought they owned the whole world.  You didn't have to cope with De Gaulle as we did in 1967 where he pissed us off enough to get himself declared personna non grata in a TV broadcast by the Prime Minister (Lester Pearson).  Fifty million Frenchmen are usually wrong, and have been ever since the Pétain government at Vichy.

 

Still, I think the times have changed enough for this prohibition to be lifted.

[catty-cb 4,381]

....Still, I think the times have changed enough for this prohibition to be lifted.

 

I think it will be a long time before we forget the blowing up and sinking of the Rainbow Warrior in Auckland Harbour in 1985 by the French Government

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

We have our own French problem with the fools in Quebec trying to separate.  They've been trying for nearly a hundred years, and have no idea which side of the bread the butter is on. 

 

"Qu'ils n'a pas du pain, qu'ils mangeant brioches."  -- Marie Antoinette.

 

Of course, she was Italian, so she didn't understand this would cost her head.  The French are so head-strong, and usually wrong.