Light rail modding help

[Yajimari21 0]

howd u get the road to tunnel like that?

[lakeyboy 12]

Date:8/30/2004 4:40:28 AM
Author:Yajimari21

howd u get the road to tunnel like that?

quote>

I'm pretty sure he has used Smoncrie's Hole Digging Lots. Grab a copy if you want by clicking the following:

https://www.simtropolis.com/lots/details.cfm?id=3599

Also, this should really be put in Swamper 77's custom vehicle thread or other kind of thread, but could someone make the Melbourne Trams, I'm from the world's most liveable city and I and several others (eg: the yeti 2001, tropod, deadwoods, etc) would love melbourne trams. The yeti 2001 gave out great pictures. I might restart my city if this can be done.

[qurlix 20]

Hmmm...getting vehicles to drive on different networks, eh?

From what I've looked at:

1) The problem isn't that the vehicles don't appear and function, its that the network kills them.

2) In UDI mode, vehicles can't follow the kill command, the can only follow collide (14 I think). Even after the particle system is done with the automata, the vehicles remain in their crashed position. Thus meaning, that if we could figure out how the UDI system suspends behavior commands, we might be able to limit the destruction. And yes this works...for test 2, I set the iid of track checkers to buses. If no roads are near a placed train station, there will be rapid flashes of bus outlines on all nearby networks. However...in UDI mode the bus placement will not be cancelled and buses will appear and drive correctly on the tracks!

Pictures coming...

[Larkyboof 0]

Date: 8/30/2004 5:54:49 AM
Author: lakeyboy

Date:8/30/2004 4:40:28 AM
Author:Yajimari21

howd u get the road to tunnel like that?

quote>

I'm pretty sure he has used Smoncrie's Hole Digging Lots. Grab a copy if you want by clicking the following:

https://www.simtropolis.com/lots/details.cfm?id=3599

quote>Those are not what hes talking about, he means how the tunnel looks. The hole digging lots just dig holes, they do not alter the appearance of tunnels themselves. I would quite like the tunnels too actually.

[lakeyboy 12]

Date:8/31/2004 6:49:31 AM
Author:Larkyboof

Date: 8/30/2004 5:54:49 AM
Author: lakeyboy

Date:8/30/2004 4:40:28 AM
Author:Yajimari21

howd u get the road to tunnel like that?

quote>

I'm pretty sure he has used Smoncrie's Hole Digging Lots. Grab a copy if you want by clicking the following:

https://www.simtropolis.com/lots/details.cfm?id=3599

quote>Those are not what hes talking about, he means how the tunnel looks. The hole digging lots just dig holes, they do not alter the appearance of tunnels themselves. I would quite like the tunnels too actually.

quote>

Now I know what he means. The tiled areas around the road tunnel exits. Those are lots by Marraset to help make tunnel entrys look better. They are in a package with other useful lots in a roadside kit. The link is: https://www.simtropolis.com/lots/details.cfm?id=2760

Hope this helps.

[Daeley 46]

Qurlix... there is no problem with the trams appearing (and disappearing). There is also no problem with UDI, it works just fine (although the trams can drive at maximum speed without crashing, but I don't consider that a big issue...)

The only issue with setting the trams up as train traffic is that trains will appear on the tracks as a result of the sims travelling over them. This is because the game engine will spawn vehciles on networks that have traffic going over them... it has very little to do with the vehicles itself. So what we need to do is either stop the trains from appearing on tramway tracks OR make trams a different kind of traffic.

[Larkyboof 0]

Date: 8/31/2004 11:41:37 AM
Author: Daeley

Qurlix... there is no problem with the trams appearing (and disappearing). There is also no problem with UDI, it works just fine (although the trams can drive at maximum speed without crashing, but I don't consider that a big issue...)

The only issue with setting the trams up as train traffic is that trains will appear on the tracks as a result of the sims travelling over them. This is because the game engine will spawn vehciles on networks that have traffic going over them... it has very little to do with the vehicles itself. So what we need to do is either stop the trains from appearing on tramway tracks OR make trams a different kind of traffic.

quote>Youre right Daeley.

You could do what Mike seith did earlier in the thread, only with trains. Here is the text...


On a side note. I have eliminated the rail checker from the game. Now there won't be that annoying little vehicle running around our nice little tramways.

Actually the rail checker is still there...you just can't see it anymore.

[Daeley 46]

well that would basically mean removing trains from the game... and that's a solution I'd like to keep in the fridge for now... I'm hoping we can get trains AND trams to co-exist peacefully

[Larkyboof 0]

Youre probably right. But you could just delete the train like i said, and get to work on the actual tram tracks and stuff. Release a beta version and then do something about the trains. Or you could do it the simpler way.

Boy, am i making this sound easy...

[Swamper77 90]

Daeley,

 

I have some lots that I use to designate passenger and freight lines. The track checkers just shoot on through. I think to make your plan work you'll have make the stations not allow passenger trains through... Just an idea...

 

-Swamper77

[Larkyboof 0]

 

Date:9/1/2004 4:01:43 PM
Author:Swamper77

Daeley,

 

I have some lots that I use to designate passenger and freight lines. The track checkers just shoot on through. I think to make your plan work you'll have make the stations not allow passenger trains through... Just an idea...

 

-Swamper77

quote> I'm not daeley, but thats a pretty good idea. You could mod passenger trains so they go zero km/h along rail lines, It would be so simple

 

Heh, just felt like making the smily big. 

[Larkyboof 0]

Accidentally double posted, could a mod delete this post?

[Daeley 46]

that may sound like a good idea but it's not that simple... there is just no way to block trains without blocking the trams... like I said before I cannot distinguish trams of different colors for anything but to spawn them, the same goes for trains. As far as I know there's no way to block a train without blocking a tram.

[Daeley 46]

erhhhh... okay so in a effort to make a line that doesn't have trains appearing I tried to create some transit pieces for ground level elevated rail... well I suppose I'm either hopeless or didn't try hard enough, 'cos nothing is working... it seems this project isn't going anywhere soon

[theyeti2001 0]

Maybe we should just forget the el rail thing for now. Wasn't T7T going to look at how we could use the ANT? I've had an idea but don't know if it will work. Would it be possible to re-texture the ANT to look like tram tracks but leave it designated as a road in game. Make the trams a road going vehicle but block them on all other networks except the ANT, the block the ANT to all other traffic except the trams? And then convert mikeseith's roadtop tram stops to be placed on the ANT

 

Hope this may be a solution.

 

Yeti.

[the7trumpets 10]

EEEK!!!!

 

I have to appologize that I have been spending more time lately on the avenue turning lanes project, another project dear to my imagination (why can't I just pick one EASY project to do?).

 

Anyway, I haven't forgotten about this at all.  However, I'm still not sure what the better option is.  Using the ANT, we could have much more control over how it looks, and we also wouldn't run into issues of 'ground trains' appearing on heavy rail tracks where it was supposed to be trams.  Granted, there is a chance that whatever vehicle the trams are defined as could appear on the ANT, but I'm a little unsure of that.  In my testing of the ANT thusfar, I have never seen train or eltrain automata created away from a station, which makes me think we might just get lucky there, but there's no solid evidence to suggest that.

 

So, there's a possibility that using the ANT would be the wisest choice.  However, in order to make it work, we are forced to use the road rule ends, as mentioned before.  This basically means that we have to figure out a way to code this network within the road RUL constraints.  It is possible, but we will have to concede to these tracks making at least 45 degree turns within one tile, which looks a little tight, but maybe it's okay, I'm no real graphical genius.  This graphical blockade is the biggest problem with using the ANT, really.  We would need to design and create all the FSH textures for straight, curves, intersections, and intersections with other networks, and s3d models for intersections with 3d networks.  Much of the s3d model stuff would simply be plugging in one of our textures in place of the existing textures, but it still requires someone versed in the BAT.

 

On top of that, I have realized that the entire avenue network makes use of some yet different RUL ends, like 7,8,5, even some question marks which I still have to do some testing to find out what they mean.  That just means that integrating any network we use for this thing into avenues might be either impossible, or WAY down the road.  That problem isn't limited to using the ANT though, it's just the way it is regaurdless of what network we use.

 

 

Again, using the existing train network with trams defined as trains is the easiest way to go, it requires basically nothing other than the stations.  But, it is also the most limited.  I guess I'm just rambling, but if there is a core of people here that want to explore developing the ANT into something like this, I can post some information that will allow any texture artists to start drawing tiles.  Just let me know.

[Metrotrainboy 0]

Will trams come out with the Light rail, or are they two seperate projects?

[Daeley 46]

Metrotrainboy: they are quite the same really

 

T7T: Well that sounds good... if the ANT is by defenition a road type of network, I might even be able to give the trams a set number of wagons  I would have to take a good look on how to get the trams to spawn on that network and not on normal road though... Secondly, I remember Tropod posting on how he got monorail to drive the ANT, it sounds to me like the best option would be to do the same but set to elevated rail (for flavor I suppose... any rail works I guess) and then define those trams as elevated rail automata... with some luck, no normal eltrain cars will appear on the tracks and if they do at least it won't look as silly as heavy trains on tram tracks

as for texture artists I think we got a few guys with some talent here

[the7trumpets 10]

Daeley:

 

Sorry for the confusion.  When saying that the ANT is a road type network, I was reffering to the method which the network drawing engine creates the RUL end numbers, which tells the exe which RUL numbers to look for in the DAT files.  The only thing 'road' like about it is that it uses this drawing method.  We can still put eltrain or monorail on the ANT, as you mentioned, with only a coupple of drawbacks.  One is that the route querry tool might look odd, where the arrows go directly from station to station instead of following the tracks.  The second is that for some reason, putting vehicles other than cars, trucks, busses, or pedestrians on the ANT causes it to go blood red, meaning that we will likely have to set whatever vehicle we choose for trams to not create congestion.

 

With that said, I'll try to draw up primitive sketches of what tiles we would need.  Believe me, we'll need quite a few texture artists

 

Actually, since we're limited to road RUL end specs, we'll need fewer textures than we might need otherwise.  Anyway, I'll try to post that stuff later this weekend... (hopefully).

[trigonalmayhem 0]

I'd personally prefer the ANT light rail. It just seems the most robust way to go about things.

I don't really care with integratoin to elevated rail (most light rail doesn't interface with that kind of system anyway).

Just a quick question, though.
Would it be possible to just make the 'trams' into a specific type of car or bus that only appears on the ANT? Or is that something that can't really be done?

[the7trumpets 10]

There are only two ways of restricting traffic on a network tile:

 

1. Set the speed for a given vehicle type (car,pedestrian,bus,freight truck,freight train,passenger train,eltrain,subway train,monorail car) to zero on the given network.
   
   
2. Only include paths for the given vehicle group you wish to allow on that tile.  The vehicle groups are as follows:
   • Car, Bus and Freight Truck
   • Pedestrian
   • Passenger Train and Freight Train
   • Eltrain
   • Monorail
   • Subway

So no, there is no way to restrict one type of car, bus, or freight truck automata from going on one network tile (tram on ANT) from showing up on another network (roads).  Furthermore, even if we tried to do that, we'd have to use busses since cars can stop at a job or house anywhere and can originate trips from a house.  Once we used these 'bus trams', if they could get onto a road network, those sims could use any bus station connected to that road network, and continue thier commute.  The result would be very....odd.

 

So, using el-trains still seems like the best bet, for the reasons here, and those previously discussed.

[theyeti2001 0]

Does that mean if we use the ANT as an el rail network we'll be able to use the same tram automata models and colour coding system for the el rail network? That way when usage generated el rail automata appears on our tram network it'll blend in seemlessly. Or should we drop the colour coding system if we can't get the right colour usage autamata. to appear on the right network.

 

Yeti.

[the7trumpets 10]

It may be that usage generated eltrains on the ANT network simply won't exist, since the game's hardcoding thinks it's a road network, and therefore doesn't spawn any usage generated eltrains.  However, we won't know for sure until later on.

 

Is there anyone willing to take a crack at the necissary textures?  If so I'll post some details on how it needs to be constructed.

[kassarc16 4]

Ok, this is incredible, I can't tell you how much better this is going to make the game if it works properly.

Date:8/18/2004 4:17:46 PM
Author:Daeley
I changed the trams class id from normal trains to elevated trains and this had two interesting effects... now the trams stop at each station for a little while, before they'd just race through at maximum speed. Secondly, the trams stations now produce some 'elevated train station' sounds... a bit weird, but it's kinda fun.

quote>

I say keep that, it's unrealistic the way regular trains just fly by/through a station anyways. Though, could you find out exactly what causes it and apply it to ground rail? 

 

Date:8/21/2004 12:10:36 AM
Author:mikeseith
Anyway, I made some large subway and bus stations that are 3 tiles deep and 1 tile wide each. The prop that is used as the building on each lot is 3X3, a special light rail station can be placed next to them and you can have a large multi-modal transit center.

quote>

 

OMG! Must have those!!! Those must be in this mod, or even just released, they look awesome!

 

 

[LBraden 14]

Can someone tell me how long this will take.

 

I am making a reagion out of 6 reagions, so I am going to make one using stuff like these, for something different

[GizmoCity 16]

Big applause for you!! Well I don

[Daeley 46]

T7T: ah I see... well I don't think the Query arrow is a big deal, since you'll typically have a lot of stations on the lines... now I just hope the ANT will allow the trams I coded to spawn... I'll see if I can do a few prelimany tests...

[mikeseith 457]

Hello all,
Sorry I haven't been active, but have been busy watching hurricaine Frances coming, preparing for it, watching it stall, sitting in the dark, then cleaning up after it.
Probably be busy this week watching Ivan close in...sigh. Some hurricaine season this year. I shall return!

[kassarc16 4]

I feel like I'm watching The Day After Tomorrow when I see it on the news. Ivan will be, what, 3rd in 2 months?

[burwellian 16]

3rd in 4 weeks I think... (1 month!)