Adjusting speeds

[Ltw 401]

I'm building a region with some big cities and also a lot of rural areas. The problem is that it gets a bit of a mess. The cities are mostly connected by avenues. I want to add some realism by building highways with the Rural Highway Mod, I like the idea that people choose to travel from city to city via big highways and use the avenues when they are in the city. The problem is that the highways couldn't be placed in the shortest route because of earlier development, this means that if I build this highway people will probably still choose this other route.

 

This highway could be in a advantage if the speed is higher. I was wondering if there is such a difference between RHM, avenues and Maxis Highways and how big that difference is. I was also wondering whether I could alter this speed via a mod or tool.

 

Ltw

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

What the NAM does is changes the simulator so Sims prefer the FASTEST route, not the shortest. So if the highway is lengthier, they will still use it.

[d_b_h 10]

I can't remember the exact speeds, but I believe the speed of travel on RHW is 130 km/h and 80 on avenues and 50 on regular roads.

 

You can alter these values via the TSCT (Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool) which is a part of the NAM download (at least in v31.2)

[Ganaram Inukshuk 906]

This highway could be in a advantage if the speed is higher. I was wondering if there is such a difference between RHM, avenues and Maxis Highways and how big that difference is.

There's very little functional difference between MHW (Maxis Highway) and RHW (The proper acronym for RealHighway). In fact, the speed of both networks is 150 km/h, and their capacities are roughly identical.

Capacities are outlined here, but the capacities for MHW were recently decreased to 5/6ths the value shown on the chart: https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=6812.0

 

You can alter these values via the TSCT (Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool) which is a part of the NAM download (at least in v31.2)

Correction: You'll only be able to adjust capacity, not speed.

[d_b_h 10]

Correction: You'll only be able to adjust capacity, not speed.

 

 

You're right, of course. I was just going from memory.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

With the new textures for MHW, I find that the only advantage to RHW is the diversity of options.  Otherwise, for all that work, it amounts to eye candy with traffic enabled on it.

 

Many users love to play with highway configurations, and the more the merrier.  I am more of a model railway type, probably because I lack the patience any more to fiddle with the necessary civil engineering and all the new terminology.  NWM is about as far as I go for high capacity stuff.  Heck, I've just barely started using FLUPs.

 

One of the nice things about this program is the huge number of choices the player has.  Everyone to his own taste.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Well I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks, eh?

partially right on the eye candy bit. AFAIK, RHW 4 will still have a lower capacity than a more tile network.

[Ltw 401]

Thank you for your replies. I have another question about the Network Widening Mod. I've been using this mod for a while, mostly because of the higher capacity with the same profile as avenues. However, the starterpieces are for normal roads. Does this also mean that the speed on MAVE avenues (4, 5, 6 and 7) is also 50km/h?

[Ganaram Inukshuk 906]

Does this also mean that the speed on MAVE avenues (4, 5, 6 and 7) is also 50km/h?

Yes.

[Ltw 401]

Alright, that could really help making the advantage for highways bigger. Thanks.

[z1 566]

I can't remember the exact speeds, but I believe the speed of travel on RHW is 130 km/h and 80 on avenues and 50 on regular roads.

 

The speed on highways of all types is 150 kph.

 

 

You can alter these values via the TSCT (Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool) which is a part of the NAM download (at least in v31.2)

 

The reason you can't alter the speed in the TSCT is that speeds are integral part of the traffic simulation, and the speeds have already been set to experimentally-determined optimal values.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

If you think about it, it is really a stretch to have a highway of any kind in the middle of a 16 Km² town.  The longest route as the crow flies is the diagonal of the tile which is 4 x (2)^1/2 which comes to 5.656854249 Km.

[Ltw 401]

If you think about it, it is really a stretch to have a highway of any kind in the middle of a 16 Km² town.  The longest route as the crow flies is the diagonal of the tile which is 4 x (2)^1/2 which comes to 5.656854249 Km.

 

I agree. The map size in Simcity 4 is still a lot smaller than real-life. My idea was to make some highways throughout the whole region, it probably won't be used in some cities (or not that much), and the use of the highway may be fragmented but it seems a lot more realistic to me. Especially for the zoning technique I'm using, I'm going for a semi-urban region with big cities, but also a lot of green and rural areas between cities. In that environment a rural highway could be a big pro.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

When I want higher capacity, even internally like between towns and a port establishment in the same tile, I sometimes use a Maxis highway.  I've enabled the alternate textures, so these look very much like limited access avenues but have greater capacity.  RHW, as I have said, requires much more civil engineering and use of a large number of separate pieces.

 

[docj101 99]

The reason you can't alter the speed in the TSCT is that speeds are integral part of the traffic simulation, and the speeds have already been set to experimentally-determined optimal values.

Optimal is subjective.  One person's observation of in-game behavior being "optimal" is based entirely on their own opinion.  I personally don't find any of the TSCT speeds "optimal" and I use slightly different speeds on all networks with results I have found optimal through experiments of my own. 

 

I was also wondering whether I could alter this speed via a mod or tool.

Ltw

Everyone can just open the traffic simulator file in reader and set their own speeds easily.  Below is a screenshot of the numbers you adjust in reader to change speeds.  I used the NAM's speeds for the screenshot.  Speeds are in KPH.

 

 

The 13 numbers separated by commas each refer to a different network type, they are as follows (listed left to right):

• Road
• Rail
• Elevated Highway
• Street
• unused (not for traffic networks)
• unused (not for traffic networks)
• Avenue
• Subway
• El Rail/GLR
• Monorail
• One-Way
• RHW (Real Highway)/Dirt
• Ground Level Highway

So to make cars travel faster on highways change the 3rd, 12th, and 13th entries from 150 to whatever you want for "Max Speed by Network for Driving".

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Out of curiosity, could 5 and 6 be hidden networks we can tap into, the way we tapped into 12 for the RHW?

[z1 566]

 

 

The reason you can't alter the speed in the TSCT is that speeds are integral part of the traffic simulation, and the speeds have already been set to experimentally-determined optimal values.

 

Optimal is subjective.  One person's observation of in-game behavior being "optimal" is based entirely on their own opinion.

 

There was nothing subjective about the testing methods used.  Certain speeds for the various networks cause more abandonment due to commute time; other speeds cause less.  The speeds used in the NAM traffic simulator were determined by much experimentation to cause the least abandonment due to commute time.

 

Additionally, the speeds of the various travel types were structured so that network usage was reasonably distributed in a way that was as most realistic as possible without causing other aspects of the game to break.  For example, highway speeds were increased substantially over the vanilla game in order to get better usage of the highways.  However, increasing them too much decreases road traffic from the CBD, which causes a drop in customers, followed by a drop in demand, etc.  Meanwhile monorail speeds have to be high enough so that it is the fastest network for the Sims, while again not being too high and drawing too many commuters away from the CBD.

 

Finally, once these speeds were determined, they were encoded in the Transit Switch Entry Costs (TSECs) outlined in the document These TSECs are used by all the stations in the NAM, and by the station builders who follow these guidelines.  Using different speeds than the standard NAM speeds makes these TSECs incorrect; if the difference is large, it will have a negative impact on the traffic simulation.  (If the difference is small, why make the change in the first place?)

 

Many years ago, traffic simulators were available from the NAM that had five or ten times the speeds of the vanilla Maxis traffic simulator.  All of these traffic simulators were abandoned years ago when it was discovered that changing speeds like that caused various problems with the game.

 

Everyone can just open the traffic simulator file in reader and set their own speeds easily.

 

Everyone can just open the traffic simulator file in the Reader and change any of the properties easily.  This does not mean that it's wise to do so.  It took many years and many traffic simulators before the current one was released by the NAM Team.  The current traffic simulator has been in use for several years without the need for any major changes.  The interrelationship of the various properties in the traffic simulator is extraordinary complex, and is only partially documented in Changing various properties, such as speeds, can have completely unanticipated effects.  For example, abandonment due to commute time was reduced by reducing the speeds of most of the rail networks by 30% from their previous values.

 

People who want to change properties in the traffic simulator outside those supported in the TSCT are obviously free to do so.  However, such configurations are not supported by the NAM Team, and we cannot address any performance problems in a city that is not running a standard version of the traffic simulator.

 

 

Out of curiosity, could 5 and 6 be hidden networks we can tap into, the way we tapped into 12 for the RHW?

 

Networks 5 and 6 are actually not unused.  They are used for the water pipe and power line networks.  And unfortunately, it's not possible to have Sims driving through the water pipes or running along the power lines. 

[docj101 99]

 

 

 

The reason you can't alter the speed in the TSCT is that speeds are integral part of the traffic simulation, and the speeds have already been set to experimentally-determined optimal values.

 

Optimal is subjective.  One person's observation of in-game behavior being "optimal" is based entirely on their own opinion.

 

There was nothing subjective about the testing methods used.  Certain speeds for the various networks cause more abandonment due to commute time; other speeds cause less.  The speeds used in the NAM traffic simulator were determined by much experimentation to cause the least abandonment due to commute time.

 

Additionally, the speeds of the various travel types were structured so that network usage was reasonably distributed in a way that was as most realistic as possible without causing other aspects of the game to break.  For example, highway speeds were increased substantially over the vanilla game in order to get better usage of the highways.  However, increasing them too much decreases road traffic from the CBD, which causes a drop in customers, followed by a drop in demand, etc.  Meanwhile monorail speeds have to be high enough so that it is the fastest network for the Sims, while again not being too high and drawing too many commuters away from the CBD.

 

Finally, once these speeds were determined, they were encoded in the Transit Switch Entry Costs (TSECs) outlined in the document These TSECs are used by all the stations in the NAM, and by the station builders who follow these guidelines.  Using different speeds than the standard NAM speeds makes these TSECs incorrect; if the difference is large, it will have a negative impact on the traffic simulation.  (If the difference is small, why make the change in the first place?)

 

Many years ago, traffic simulators were available from the NAM that had five or ten times the speeds of the vanilla Maxis traffic simulator.  All of these traffic simulators were abandoned years ago when it was discovered that changing speeds like that caused various problems with the game.

 

Everyone can just open the traffic simulator file in reader and set their own speeds easily.

 

Everyone can just open the traffic simulator file in the Reader and change any of the properties easily.  This does not mean that it's wise to do so.  It took many years and many traffic simulators before the current one was released by the NAM Team.  The current traffic simulator has been in use for several years without the need for any major changes.  The interrelationship of the various properties in the traffic simulator is extraordinary complex, and is only partially documented in Changing various properties, such as speeds, can have completely unanticipated effects.  For example, abandonment due to commute time was reduced by reducing the speeds of most of the rail networks by 30% from their previous values.

 

People who want to change properties in the traffic simulator outside those supported in the TSCT are obviously free to do so.  However, such configurations are not supported by the NAM Team, and we cannot address any performance problems in a city that is not running a standard version of the traffic simulator.

 

Have you considered that different numbers just mean you need to adjust the way you play the game and engineer your traffic networks?  One example is highway speed (as you refer to).  If highways are drawing too much traffic to them, away from your commerce lined roads, a player needs to simply lay their highways and ramps in a manner that makes sims drive through a commercial districts on their way to or from the highway.  In this manner it becomes an advantage for business; bottlenecking customers onto the main line that connects to the ramps.  Maybe your idea of acceptable abandonment due to commute time is different from mine or someone else's.  Maybe your idea of "problems" is my idea of realistic or different.  It's not possible for you to tell me that there is only one correct way to do anything in this game.  Optimal anything is subjective; it is all subject to a matter of taste or desired results.  If someone decided to play with settings and decide for themselves if they do or don't like repercussions, that is their prerogative, not yours.  It's also half the fun of playing this game.

[z1 566]

As I said, "People who want to change properties in the traffic simulator outside those supported in the TSCT are obviously free to do so."  The NAM Team simply can't offer support for such configurations, in the same way that it no longer supports the original Maxis traffic simulator or any of the previous NAM traffic simulators.  This is not my personal policy; this is the NAM Team policy.  Please don't make this personal.

[Ltw 401]

I'll probably leave the speeds of my road network the way it is, I'll change the avenues in my cities to MAVE-4 in order to change the speed to 50km/h. I think that will add some realism. This way I can really get some policy in the different speeds in the city and in rural zones. However, the traffic simulator file could help with the further implementation of the HSR network. In Europe speeds on High Speed Rail of around 300km/h are very common, 200km/h is also a common speed. So It may be an idea to change the speed of monorail/HSR to 300km/h and the speed of passenger trains on heavy rail to 200km/h. This would inquire a lot of infrastructural investments (mostly because of realism), I should handle a strict separation between passenger trains and freight trains, for now that is the case, but I could implement that even further. It should also require underpasses/overpasses since high speed rail doesn't have crossings. I realize that there are risks involved. One evident risk that I can think of is the increased use and thereby probably increased problems with delays and I could imagine that it could lead to an unstable traffic simulation. This would absolutely be a lot of work and there are definitely risks involved but I think it's worth the trouble.

 

 

 

 

 

Additionally, the speeds of the various travel types were structured so that network usage was reasonably distributed in a way that was as most realistic as possible without causing other aspects of the game to break.  For example, highway speeds were increased substantially over the vanilla game in order to get better usage of the highways.  However, increasing them too much decreases road traffic from the CBD, which causes a drop in customers, followed by a drop in demand, etc.  Meanwhile monorail speeds have to be high enough so that it is the fastest network for the Sims, while again not being too high and drawing too many commuters away from the CBD.

 

 

Isn't this also influenced by the layout of your network? I have a heavy rail network and monorail network all the way to my CBD. It seems logic to me that this causes desirability of that area because of the increased accessibility. I have another question about this matter, I thought that Simcity only simulates home-work traffic, how does the change of network speeds influence customers? Is this linked to the number of cars/pedestrians that use a certain road?

 

By the way, I have a back-up of my plug-in folder and cities. Any changes in speed that I will make are for testing (at least at first) and could be undone easily if the results are undesirable.

[z1 566]

I'll probably leave the speeds of my road network the way it is, I'll change the avenues in my cities to MAVE-4 in order to change the speed to 50km/h.

 

The standard speed of all avenues (including Maxis) is 50 kph in the NAM.

 

 

In Europe speeds on High Speed Rail of around 300km/h are very common, 200km/h is also a common speed. So It may be an idea to change the speed of monorail/HSR to 300km/h and the speed of passenger trains on heavy rail to 200km/h.

Yes, this was known when the NAM traffic simulator speeds were set.  The problem is that if you use realistic speeds for all the travel types, the overall traffic simulation ends up being much less realistic.  The reason for this is that SC4's simulations on all levels are exceedingly simple compared to RL.  You can tune things in the game to get the individual parts realistic, or you can tune things to make the game as a whole more realistic - but not both.

 

Isn't this also influenced by the layout of your network?

Certainly.

 

I have a heavy rail network and monorail network all the way to my CBD. It seems logic to me that this causes desirability of that area because of the increased accessibility.

Ah, but the game doesn't always follow what we consider logic.  Remember, the NAM traffic simulator increased desirability by reducing most rapid transit speeds.

 

I have another question about this matter, I thought that Simcity only simulates home-work traffic, how does the change of network speeds influence customers? Is this linked to the number of cars/pedestrians that use a certain road?

Yes, and buses and freight trucks too.  The game doesn't really simulate customers, so it makes workers do double-duty as customers on their way to work.

[IljaS 54]

 

 

I have another question about this matter, I thought that Simcity only simulates home-work traffic, how does the change of network speeds influence customers? Is this linked to the number of cars/pedestrians that use a certain road?

Yes, and buses and freight trucks too.  The game doesn't really simulate customers, so it makes workers do double-duty as customers on their way to work.

 

Key element here is the traffic noise. Game uses that as a value to determine the amount of customers. Building commercial areas is a constant balancing between creating noise and fighting against pollution.

IMO, current simulation and traffic speed works surprisingly well for players like me, who likes to build CBDs with central railwaystations and use a lot of pedmalls with public transportation.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

You know this is getting rather esoteric.  If you want to play with the guts of someone else's code, then you can no longer complain about it since it has now become yours.  This applies to the smallest change with the lot editor, and playing in the traffic using the Reader makes it definitely yours and yours alone.  If anyone is willing to engage with you in a dialogue, consider yourself lucky.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

On the contrary, I learnt a lot and found this discussion quite fascinating. I am not a modder, I just take the NAM as gospel but it's interesting to know what goes into it.

One thing I wish to make clear: in the current simulator, the MAVE-4 and the standard maxis AVE are the same speed, despite MAVE being a road based network? Because aesthetically, I prefer the medianless avenue.

[Ltw 401]

There is also a big learning experience in simulation. NAM has made it possible to simulate much more realistic traffic patterns than the Maxis traffic simulator and it gives a lot more options (especially with the traffic simulator tool). However, I would like to know how setting different speeds could be a advantage or disadvantage. For instance, if I have a region with different cities at great distances, especially when they depend on each other. In these cases it might be useful to set the high speed rail speed on a higher speed (if used wisely). Another advantage could be that you have more options in speed management. I could choose for 80km/h for avenues and use MAVE-4 avenues in the cities. This way I have two different speeds depending on whether you are in the city or in rural areas.

[APSMS 1,893]

Remember that all trips to a neighboring city tile are registered as "long" by the traffic simulator, and that commute time resets once in the new city, so the only thing that is necessary is a way to get either to the next city or the available job within the standard commute time limit. If jobs are available then you won't need to worry.

 

The danger with sending workers outside your city is the higher risk of creating the eternal commuter loop bug, where job-seekers just go from city to city because it's quicker to go to the next city than it is to go to where the jobs are. This can be countered by planning your transit networks carefully (and is easily stopped--just bulldoze the neighbor connections; that's what I did and it solved the problem after a few game months).

 

Since the MaxCommuteTripTime was changed by the NAM simulator from the default value of 6 minutes (MAXIS) to the "optimal" value of 6 hours, it is unlikely, given a proper transit network, that your Sims will be unable to traverse a large city tile in that time. Remember, commute time resets upon entering new cities.

[Ltw 401]

Remember that all trips to a neighboring city tile are registered as "long" by the traffic simulator, and that commute time resets once in the new city, so the only thing that is necessary is a way to get either to the next city or the available job within the standard commute time limit. If jobs are available then you won't need to worry.

 

The danger with sending workers outside your city is the higher risk of creating the eternal commuter loop bug, where job-seekers just go from city to city because it's quicker to go to the next city than it is to go to where the jobs are. This can be countered by planning your transit networks carefully (and is easily stopped--just bulldoze the neighbor connections; that's what I did and it solved the problem after a few game months).

 

Since the MaxCommuteTripTime was changed by the NAM simulator from the default value of 6 minutes (MAXIS) to the "optimal" value of 6 hours, it is unlikely, given a proper transit network, that your Sims will be unable to traverse a large city tile in that time. Remember, commute time resets upon entering new cities.

 

I haven't noticed any problems with traffic between neighboring cities. I had a city which was mainly residential and another city with a large commercial sector. There is a lot of traffic between those two cities but I still haven't noticed any undesirable effects on commute time. There are a lot of connections between those cities.

 

The eternal loop bug can be influenced by the way your cities are connected to each other. If your cities are connected in a loop this could occur. My cities aren't connected in that way, so I think I'm quite safe.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I avoid corner to corner connections but even without them it is easy to create a commuter loop if you are not careful.  All it takes is three or more cities with insufficient jobs to cause commuting to cross borders and some interconnections, especially ferries.  It would apparently be an easy fix in the game to make all travellers obey a "must reach destination without back-tracking" rule, but it means a change in the exe which we are not permitted to do.

[z1 566]

One thing I wish to make clear: in the current simulator, the MAVE-4 and the standard maxis AVE are the same speed, despite MAVE being a road based network? Because aesthetically, I prefer the medianless avenue.

 

Yes; for each travel type, all the avenues use the same speed, which is also the same speed as used by roads for that travel type.  This uniformity is necessary for the proper operation of NWM, and you can count on its continuing in the future.

 

However, I would like to know how setting different speeds could be a advantage or disadvantage. For instance, if I have a region with different cities at great distances, especially when they depend on each other. In these cases it might be useful to set the high speed rail speed on a higher speed (if used wisely).

 

As is implied by APSMS's post, setting the speed higher in that situation gains you absolutely nothing.  The Sims have enough commute time that they can walk across an entire large tile if they need to.

 

 

Another advantage could be that you have more options in speed management. I could choose for 80km/h for avenues and use MAVE-4 avenues in the cities. This way I have two different speeds depending on whether you are in the city or in rural areas.

 

But you don't have to modify the traffic simulator to gain this ability.  In fact, a more comprehensive version of it is already built into the NAM traffic simulator.  These are "fast avenues", which can be built by putting two one-way roads right next to each other, in opposite directions.  Aesthetically, the intersections aren't as nice as with real avenues, but the functionality is all other.  And since there are four widths of one-way roads when you have the NWM installed, you can have four widths for your fast avenues.  Like one-way roads, their speed is 75 kph, which is almost indistinguishable from the speed you chose.

 

I haven't noticed any problems with traffic between neighboring cities.

 

If you build your cities properly, you shouldn't.  Although a commute to a neighboring city is automatically a long commute, and long commutes reduce the desirability of the Sims' residences slightly, the reduction in desirability is so slight that I have never noticed any negative effects from it.

 

 

The eternal loop bug can be influenced by the way your cities are connected to each other. If your cities are connected in a loop this could occur. My cities aren't connected in that way, so I think I'm quite safe.

 

In general, it's not too hard to avoid the eternal commuter loop if you know what you're doing.  And if such a loop sneaks in anyway, it's pretty easy to get rid of.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The other thing about the eternal commuter loop is that you can use it as a cash cow.  Lay down toll booths at each border crossing on both sides and your cities can get rich.  Ugly, but rich.