Poll time!

[Catchin22 299]

Poll is fairly self explanitory. Imagine the game built with the same 3D engine without Glassbox. Simply put, SC4 style managment. Cars dissapear, reappear, sims are only trackable so much, you get the idea. Vote away!

[LillySatou 117]

i think this is less of a question and more of a "what if sim city 4 was released with modern graphics" hypothetical. i don't really understand what answering this question accomplishes.

[Catchin22 299]

i think this is less of a question and more of a "what if sim city 4 was released with modern graphics" hypothetical. i don't really understand what answering this question accomplishes.

Much of the debate on the forums has been about glassbox being the restrictive factor in some of the features I have included in the poll. It's also the selling point for EA / Maxis in many regards. The poll is asking, would you give up this selling point if it meant the other features were possible / implemented instead. It's fairly straight forward.

  Edited November 2, 2012 by Catchin22  

[rudie75 8]

How do you know Glassbox is a restricting factor? Is this a fact, or is it just a rumor?

I ask this because i don't remember anyone from Maxis saying that it is.

[jacksunny 741]

^Glassbox uses a lot of resources, so the map sizes are limited. There are other reasons though, 3D and multiplayer restrictions for example.

Judging by the results of the poll so far, it seems people would much rather have Glassbox than an updated SC4.

[Catchin22 299]

How do you know Glassbox is a restricting factor? Is this a fact, or is it just a rumor?

I ask this because i don't remember anyone from Maxis saying that it is.

No Maxis has not stated this, nor would I suspect they will, at least not until well after the game has become dated, it would be counter intuitive to promoting the game to say that it has been limited because of the feature they boast most about.

However there is obviously a limiting factor. You could analyze this as possibly being 3D, though easily discountable to anyone in the game industry as we would understand that a 3D city simulator can easily be done, and has been done (such as CitiesXL) though not coded in the best mannor. So excluding 3D as the reason which it is clearly not it must be something else very taxing or boil down to sheer laziness in creating larger maps. I strongly suspect creating larger map sizes due to time restraints or general laziness is not the reason. So we are narrowing down the field, really the only option left is Glassbox. Even the graphics have been “dumbed” down (although not entirely bad) in a way to reduce GPU requirements.

I think it's fairly easy to conclude that due to the CPU power needed to process the information (though properly programed to take full use of a GPU would have eliminated this problem) has resulted in the requirement that map / city and consequently the handling of data must be reduced severely as well. You could also conclude that the game being programed poorly (not making full use of a GPU to handle those calculations) could also be due to laziness or last minute decisions and time frames to produce and release the game. Thus the concept artists and framework designers would have been required to make a game "fit" within the constraints of the limitations of Glassbox.

[DmainEvent 195]

That's what she said...

But I think glassbox could be workable with larger maps. The devs absolutely refuse to implement them though. So I absolutely refuse to purchase. I will wait for a game that has progressed and not regressed thank you very much.

[Azurespecter 506]

Maxis is taking a huge leap into uncharted territory with the Glassbox Engine, combined with 3D graphics, AND multiplayer. That's a lot for a new game to tackle, so I'm ok with SimCity dropping a lot of features and imposing limits at first.

.

Give Maxis time to make sure these new systems work properly. I'd care to bet that after the bugs/glitches/problems get worked out with these innovations, we'll see some vast improvements in features, quality, and capabilities.

If Maxis tried to do all of this at once with SimCity, they'd fail. It's just too big of a project to do all at once.

[Plancus 17]

I personally don't think Glassbox is the problem resulting in small maps, the problem is actually the limit imposed by the online multiplayer architecture and the desire to reach the highest number of players with old systems in order for them to play online as well, leveling the playing field, so to speak.

This is guesswork, of course, but in case Glassbox really is the deciding factor to consider, I'd say a degree of abstraction in the agent based system would be welcome to alleviate the problem. It is indeed nice to see where your sims are going, but for other services (like energy, water, sewage, each having their own agents crowding the simulation) a simplification wouldn't alter much the fun of the game, in my opinion. I don't really think noticing a brown "poo" agent coming from a household and following it to the other side of the town, to the sewage dump or whatever it's called, would add much to the gameplay for the 'normal' users.

[LillySatou 117]

if glassbox is the reason they are removing features then glassbox is simply a poorly optimized engine.

[cirugo 1,889]

I picked the "something else" option because I think all three of the things listed are important and Glassbox is one of the culprits in the game being deficient in those categories.

[Urban Cartographer 601]

I picked the "something else" option because I think all three of the things listed are important and Glassbox is one of the culprits in the game being deficient in those categories.

For me, it is the same, since they are all equally important and I do not mind losing Glassbox in order to bring back some popular features and Glassbox is a major limiting factor; forced online is another.

[grugor 60]

I personally don't think Glassbox is the problem resulting in small maps, the problem is actually the limit imposed by the online multiplayer architecture and the desire to reach the highest number of players with old systems in order for them to play online as well, leveling the playing field, so to speak.

This is guesswork, of course, but in case Glassbox really is the deciding factor to consider, I'd say a degree of abstraction in the agent based system would be welcome to alleviate the problem. It is indeed nice to see where your sims are going, but for other services (like energy, water, sewage, each having their own agents crowding the simulation) a simplification wouldn't alter much the fun of the game, in my opinion. I don't really think noticing a brown "poo" agent coming from a household and following it to the other side of the town, to the sewage dump or whatever it's called, would add much to the gameplay for the 'normal' users.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. flush and forget. same goes for water. Both water and sewer could be run the old way really. All you really need is a warning that the sewer is backing up or sims are out of water and build a treatment plant or reservoir .This would in theory free up a lot of agent movment

[VeritaScientia 150]

GlassBox is not the limiting factor, what is, is the average computer's processing power and memory.

If computing power was a non-factor, we would probably see 16x16sq km city tiles using GlassBox. Since it is a factor, and they want to make sure the game is accessible to as many people as possible, there will be limits. There's still hope for DLC to increase the size of cities.

[Gamma Stardust 50]

"average computer's processing power and memory" (assesment) predates Glassbox development. You're spinning the issue on its head.

Yet, i am told time and time again:

(0:55)

"GlassBox is a, eha, the new simulation engine that's been developed in house, ahmm, they've been wanting to build this for years, ahmm, but now it's just at the point where the technology can support this level of detail in the simulation..."

I'll say it again. This technology issue is a non-issue. The issue is the obscured disconnect between the Simcity vision EA/Maxis is putting forward and the vision original Simcity series' players hoped for.

Maxis says it "shares" the vision with those players when it is blatantly obvious that it does not.

Eventually technology would be up to the task to materialize player's vision of the series, but we'll never know since it is not an attempt to achieve that that lies in front of us.

So goes the reason for which i'll abstain in this poll.

  Edited November 3, 2012 by Gamma Stardust  

[jorgen45 9]

cause they minused feaures at sc2013 they didn't add its like going back to sim city 3000 only with better look of buildings and lots and region that why i opt for cities xl 2012 no need internet + better features than sc 2013 and moding will be easier cause if your online in sc 2013 im testing to mod lots in my cousins sc 2013 it will crash sometimes if online cause the server couldn't find that building you put or landmark but atleast you can still see it when it not crash yet

[Screwballl 196]

Glassbox is just the graphics engine... I believe that since it is so new they are limiting its usage to these small maps, but really everything they are doing has been done before in one way or another so there is no reason they couldn't give us much larger maps (CXL has 10x10km maps), and keep what they have now. That is also no reason to force everyone online through a company well know for server issues (EA).

[Ocram's Razr 963]

Glass Box seems to be a very good engine. The features were most likely cut to increase profit margins (increase net sales and decrease costs).

--Ocram

[WarhawkJAH 11]

Something else: Immediatly adjacent maps (no dead space betweem cities/great works). Altough its really not clear to me how much space (if any) will be between cities. I don't think glass box is a limiting factor either: the mutiplayer emphasis is the problem. Adjacent maps with a more fluid region play would mitigate the small map size, which might be the only problem related to glass box.