Trying to build a realistic city

[Harbin91 37]

Everytime I do start to find this hard to carry out, first in SimCity 4 and now in Cities XL 2012. The reason being is that in the UK, alot of towns have similar style buildings next to each other. During the 19th and 20th century, compact housing was created to alleviate a shortage of housing for the working classes. As a result, pretty much any town and city you will come accross will have areas of terraced housing, built in rows. One such example would be this here.

However, plopping residential buildings that are functional (well, Pseudo-functional would be a better term), is a tedious, time consuming process. Plopping a house on blank tiles will function somewhat for a few game days, with people living there, but will immediately dilapidate, whereas plopping one on an already filled residential tile will not dilapidate but won't have any other function. I have seen quite alot of CJs on Simtropolis though to suggest to me that somehow it is possible to get a functional planned city. Cities XL is somewhat more sophisticated in this respect since you can actually plop buildings with no issue, although the small range of buildings and seemingly incomplete tiles does annoy me, most houses don't have proper bordered gardens, just a plot of grass, restrictive on tile sizes and whilst follows a near gridless design, can still be restrictive on placement of buildings, and until addons are fully finished, the only method of transport in Cities XL is road, bus and subway.

My question in that respect for those that have achieved a near-as-possible realism is how do you do it? Simply how do you get the residential building you want, fully functional with no dilapidation occuring due to commute time?

Commute time is the main killer for the large urban sprawls. I have created cities with a massive transportation network, gridlike motorways (highways if you want), subways, rail, avenues, buses, yet quite alot I see 'abandoned due to commute time'. Now megacities such as New York, Paris, London and metropolitan cities such as Manchester and Sheffield are an accumulation of smaller towns and villages now amalgamated into a larger conurbation. London after all is a group of towns and cities into one continuous area. To replicate this in SimCity again is hard, yet again I've seen people do it. Not quite sure how cities in the US work, but in the UK, alot of large towns and cities, have a town/city centre, mainly composed of retail buildings, with alot built inside a ring road to keep traffic out of the centre, with alot of the centre pedestrianised, whilst several areas of the town have a smaller, high street, with newsagents, perhaps the odd butcher, hairdresser and takeaway mainly done just for buying groceries midweek that a trip to town isn't worth such as milk, bread or confectionary whilst weekend shopping is done as the main shopping trip. People where I live, if they do not work in my town (I live in Doncaster), will mainly commute to nearby Sheffield, or the other outerlying towns for work (Barnsley, Rotherham or Leeds commonly), maybe York or further afield if they have car. Teachers in my town, often do not live in the town, but will commute in. Getting a functional commuter belt is hard to get in SimCity since most sims won't look beyond the city boundaries for jobs.

The main problem with this is that people on my game prefer not to use trains as a method of transport between cities, thus commuting is hard to achieve. Most towns I build now usually have ringroads, or a main road bypass for the smaller towns to keep heavy traffic out of the town, yet instead they are rarely used. Motorways often don't lead traffic directly into the town but drop it off on the outskirts and lead it in on a major dual-carriageway.

And don't get me started on hillside buildings. Hate how they appear, which is why I like my maps to be flat.

Even these days in seems to build a properly, fully realistic city is impossible, but how do people achieve such awesome city journals? It seems alot of city journals I've seen go beyond what I can see as possible in SimCity or Cities XL. I have been impressed by SimCity 5 but I've had a bad experience recently with EA products, and the pricing of SimCity 5 is alot higher than I would expected. As a UK resident, why should I have to pay, £45 for the regular game, £65 for the deluxe edition just so I can get UK/European city sets. For US people £65 equates to about $101, whilst £45 is about $70 for the regular game (which is branded Limited Edition on Origin for some bizarre reason). Even then, I've no idea if they're keeping the ability to allow user created content, and I'm still about sore about them not fixing the common CTD bug which has annoyed me so much.

For me, even though it is gridbased, Sim City 4 remains the most realistic city sim avialable, but even then it's got flaws, whilst Cities XL just seems incomplete, and the main thing I like about Cities XL is that you can view your cities from streetlevel, even if little things show up like strange pits between a plaza/area a street and a building.

  Edited July 15, 2012 by Harbin91  

[cmdp123789 710]

ok... Harbin91... hi!

Well... to begin with, there are a couple steps that I need to make sure you followed in order to achieved the city you want.

1) Im assuming you are basing your cities on UK cities... using them as a guide at least. So first you need to make sure you have enough BATS of all the stages. You see, in order to start any city, you need to have stage 1 houses... and so to keep it growing you need then stages 3, 4 and 5. the same happens with commercial, industry not that much... so you can download come content of it and it wont really make a difference.

2) Once you selected the content you want to use ( I recommend IL TONKSO's... and a couple more... you should check the LEX also!!) you need a Maxis blocker... you use the maxis blocker so that no maxis building comes out, and only the buildings you want will grow, of course, depending on the stage

3) Make sure you have some commercial and industry areas around... you have to play it smart when it comes to that... commute time is really SOMETHING... but you can manage to get around it if you lay things smart...

4) Make sure you have a demand mod... this particular thing is really important... IT WILL DETERMINE the speed in which the city will reach certain "levels" of growth.

5) Finally, make sure that the main roads always have some commercial, bus stops, or train stations near... you see, the ringroads dont really work in simcity as in real life... NAM will always find the "shortest" way... and not the smartest.. or at least thats how it works for me... so motorways will only work on certain areas... they do wonders for me in industrial areas...

Here is a picture of a city Im playing... UK styled

A close up...

And in this last one... in blue commercial... and orange/yellow... industrial

Hope this helped you somehow...

[Harbin91 37]

Thanks for the reply, cmdp123789. I'll see about trying that. I never thought about looking for the Maxis blocker tool, but assumed it would've been good. How would I go about getting certain select Maxis buildings in game though? Some of the New York and Chicago style buildings kinda fit a gothic-revival architecture that resembles somewhat the type of buildings found in town centres, alongside some more modern architecture.

I thought NAM was modded to look for the fastest instead of the shortest (the shortest being what SimCity itself looked for). I have got NAM installed although for somereason it's decided to go RHD instead of LHD.

I did have a demand mod but got rid of it because of uncontrolled growth, basically it messed up the entire region because I incorrectly used it. Thing is though, that most terraced houses come up as medium density, whereas I'd class them more as low density. Usually terraced housing where I live is 6 to a house max, and no more than three houses in a game square, meaning 18. The other thing about that is that streets in game are grey, whereas they're the same colour here. Both are black tarmac, although modern housing developments will have either brick roads or a lighter colour. I know there is a texture mod for them, but there isn't a good blend between texture changes.

  Edited July 15, 2012 by Harbin91  

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

If you haven't, take a look in the STEX for Paeng's old timber lots of various kinds. Most of them fit on 2x1 and make excellent row housing. Example:

[cmdp123789 710]

Well, about the streets... SAM would be the answer... and it is in fact the best tool to use... there are another textures for streets... but I find the SAM quite complete. About the terraces... there is a pack that grows on a 1x1 lot... and you can zone on low residential and they will grow... just zone 1x1... uninstall the NAM and choose the LHD version of it... so as the RHW... Another thing you want to try is search in stex for the maxis building list... or something like that... it lets you plop any maxis building... and that's the way to fit some maxis buildings in your city. Are you going for a NYC styled city? I really thought it was UK...

[petriknl 15]

I am using a lot of SFBT buildings, just wait and they will pop up everywhere When I am satisfied with a building I make it a monument so it cannot change. Hope that will help you too.

  Edited July 16, 2012 by petriknl  

[Sandis_van_Great 346]

when i see same houses in a row i always say "british style" hehe. Love it btw.

I would say that the best way to do is buldozing the buildings you dont want and hopping that the right one will pop out.

Or maybe (not sure about this) but if you have already planed what kinda houses you want to see on your new built street, exit the game take out all the otther residental bats from plugins folder, put the mod that disables maxis original buildings and only leave the bats you want to be built. and once they are built you can put everythign back. Just an idea thought.

Thought im not sure if its gona crash or not once the plugins are taken out but as far as i remmember when i toke out bats than the existing ones just turnd invisible.

[Harbin91 37]

and that's the way to fit some maxis buildings in your city. Are you going for a NYC styled city? I really thought it was UK...

British, it's just that some of the earlier American architechture of NYC is somewhat styled on British Neo-Gothic.

when i see same houses in a row i always say "british style" hehe. Love it btw.

I would say that the best way to do is buldozing the buildings you dont want and hopping that the right one will pop out.

Or maybe (not sure about this) but if you have already planed what kinda houses you want to see on your new built street, exit the game take out all the otther residental bats from plugins folder, put the mod that disables maxis original buildings and only leave the bats you want to be built. and once they are built you can put everythign back. Just an idea thought.

Thought im not sure if its gona crash or not once the plugins are taken out but as far as i remmember when i toke out bats than the existing ones just turnd invisible.

Far as I'm aware removing buildings from addons just causes boxes to appear, but return when they're placed back in.

[Sandis_van_Great 346]

yeah, so you can try like i sayd.

Would suggest make a folders in plugins folder like Residental/Comerical and so on so its easyer to remove the ones you need to remove.

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

To remove a plugin building, you must remove the .sc4lot. The rest of the files involved will be ignored. If the item is contained in a .dat file, then remove the .dat file. If the .dat file contains more than one lot, them you need ilive's reader.

[Ltw 401]

A organized plug-in folder is very important if you want to build realistic cities, those cities usually involve a huge amount of custom content (lets face it, Maxis content isn't realistic, especially when you want to build European cities). My plug-in folder is organized in folders, folders which match the menus in Simcity 4 (residential, commercial, industrial, tools etc.), one folder for dependencies and one for mods. Every plug-in has its own folder, so all I have to do is delete that folder and I don't have the plug-in anymore.

Furthermore, building realistic US-cities is very easy. A lot of custom content and you get there. Main reason is off course that the game is designed for US-cities. It also makes a grid by default which is very common in the United States (New York and Los Angeles for example). Since European cities are much older and most of them have a medieval city centre it is a lot harder. Simcity 4 has some limitations which doesn't make it easy. You just can't rotate buildings 45 degrees because every block is square. There are probably some lots in the STEX which are rotated but those buildings take up more space (because of this limitation within Simcity).

The solution of cmdp123789 is probably the best, if you don't use the default grid (manually zoning is Ctrl + drag your mouse) it's gonna look a lot more realistic. Building realistic cities will take a lot more time but getting a nice result is absolutely worth it.

Good luck!

[oG Peter 2]

Hey there,

You may have gotten into your city already but I can't seem to stress the observation I've made as a result of endevouring on builds like yours.

A few helpful things that may give you the edge in city building.

- Highways are your only regional connection: Even with NAM sims will seek out inter-regional road connections that are closer than highways even though highways may be the more logical option to go on. Severing every single connection except for the ones you want traffic on will give you a more realistic traffic flow.

- Build your suburbs from the edges in: Yes, backwards. Since commute time is everything you'll want development at maximum commute time first so that you are faced with minimal abandonment.

- Limited roads to highways: You're mayor and you can build roads everywhere but if you want a realistic city you'll want to have a finite amount of roads leading to where the highways are otherwise you'll have an excellent avenue with a SPUI interchange with 300 cars and a cruddy road that is more direct with 9000 cars.

I'll illustrate these later with route queries and data maps, I do not have internet connected to the computer with Sim City (It is 16km away from any Internet)

[z1 566]

- Highways are your only regional connection...

This is not true; almost any kind of network can be used as a regional connection.

Even with NAM sims will seek out inter-regional road connections that are closer than highways even though highways may be the more logical option to go on.

The NAM traffic simulator has no preference for one network over another, other than the implied speed difference and a slight impact from the Sims' preference for cars or mass transit. Sims go to city boundaries when there is demand for them on the other side of the boundary; reaching the boundary is considered reaching their job. Job destinations are selected first; then the fastest route to them is determined.

Since commute time is everything...

In the NAM traffic simulator, actual commute time is essentially irrelevant.

you'll want development at maximum commute time first so that you are faced with minimal abandonment.

With the NAM traffic simulator, this strategy is not necessary. With the standard Maxis traffic simulator, this strategy will not work reliably.

Limited roads to highways: You're mayor and you can build roads everywhere but if you want a realistic city you'll want to have a finite amount of roads leading to where the highways are otherwise you'll have an excellent avenue with a SPUI interchange with 300 cars and a cruddy road that is more direct with 9000 cars.

Not true, assuming you've built a halfway reasonable transportation system. When roads start getting congested, their speed drops, and especially with the NAM, this is generally enough to encourage Sims to find alternate routes.

[Harbin91 37]

Bump because I want.

So trying to build a city (more of a large town) loosely based on my hometown. One problem I'm having is that my NAM is playing up... it's not installing the LHD version, no matter what.

The other issue is a lack of commercial demand. I've not place a demand mod in because I'm still a bit hazy on how exactly to use it properly, I've got terrace houses appearing properly, but there is a huge negative demand for business, and no real demand for industry, despite a huge demand for residents. I've got people moving in but no jobs to support them. Actually, it's not coming up with the no jobs icon, it's coming up with the commute time icon.

The final issue is with the Maxis blocker, which isn't blocking maxis buildings... I've installed the files but is there meant to be a lot that I plop to block Maxis buildings appearing or is it meant to work from the out?

Having some issue with my RHW aswell, but that might be because I'm still learning how to use it properly. Can't quite create the junction I want for it though.

Thanks.

  Edited August 8, 2012 by Harbin91  

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

Perhaps a refreshing walk through would help you.

You really have too many disconnected problems to address. We need to know a lot more, starting with the build level of your game, and what O/S you are running.

To get your build level use windows explorer (assuming you are on windows) to navigate to

C:\Program Files\...\Apps\SimCity 4.exe.

If you are on W7 or Vista, hover the mouse over the file when you will see the version number reported. If earlier, right click on the file and open the version tab in properties.

In order to use the NAM and its relations (RHW) your version must be at least 1,1,638 as specified in the NAM documentation. Also, if you have installed the EP1 update, did you get the one for your game region? If you are in the U.K. or other LHD country, you will have to have picked the correct version of the patch for this.

If you are running version 1,1,641,x (the digital download) then you will have to go through the appropriate handsprings to change the game to LHD from RHD which requires changes to the installation files and the registry.

  Edited August 9, 2012 by A Nonny Moose  

[Harbin91 37]

Perhaps a refreshing walk through would help you.

You really have too many disconnected problems to address. We need to know a lot more, starting with the build level of your game, and what O/S you are running.

To get your build level use windows explorer (assuming you are on windows) to navigate to

C:\Program Files\...\Apps\SimCity 4.exe.

If you are on W7 or Vista, hover the mouse over the file when you will see the version number reported. If earlier, right click on the file and open the version tab in properties.

In order to use the NAM and its relations (RHW) your version must be at least 1,1,638 as specified in the NAM documentation. Also, if you have installed the EP1 update, did you get the one for your game region? If you are in the U.K. or other LHD country, you will have to have picked the correct version of the patch for this.

If you are running version 1,1,641,x (the digital download) then you will have to go through the appropriate handsprings to change the game to LHD from RHD which requires changes to the installation files and the registry.

Sorry about the delay but I had to reinstall Windows and thus SimCity, of which all my plugins, regions etc, are safe in My Documents folder, but with it being in a different location, for some reason SimCity isn't using it.

All my docs are stored on my D:\ drive, not C:\... my documents (the one being in D:\) is the only folder in the Documents library. Due to an issue with SimCity itself (it's not finding either disk when present in my BD-ROM drive) I'm using a No-CD exe file, although I've got the updated patch on, and I'm using Deluxe Edition.

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

There is a command line option to change the user directory. Here is the link to all the command options.

[Harbin91 37]

Thanks for that A Nonny Moose... Need to reinstall some of the NAM files since it's changed stuff.

Just a few questions... was wondering if there is any easy way to convert the game to darknite... all mods I've got are using Maxisnite... are there any problems with using Maxisnite mods on darknite? I have the SAM textures, but wondering how I could apply the dark asphalt (black streets texture) auto... pretty much all streets and roads are black, not black roads and grey streets.

Also, any good mods for embankments, cuttings, trenches, etc...? Kinda hard for me to find them on Simtropolis, since they mainly come back with unrelated things such as maps.

[A Nonny Moose 8,263]

If you don't have it, you can stop the spread of SAM textures where you don't want them or want to change them using uroncha's SAM Stopper.