Developing Stage 8 Skyscrapers

[Robsters 0]

Hello Simcity 4 fans

I recently returned to playing this game after 5yrs, I have built perfect city, perfect health & education, only high tech industry and mostly zoned residential & commercial and everything is in huge demand but i am still struggling to get the stage 8 skyscraper was there ever a cure to this problem?

I have rush hour and all patches applied

city is 78 yrs old and commercial the highest in demand, no air or water pollution and plenty of landmarks

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Was there ever a problem? As far as I know, the game works fine in that respect - if the population is big enough and if there is enough demand (and some suitable zones on which you can channel that demand), it's hard not to get skyscrapers.

A screenshot of your city will be needed in order to help you. It would also be interesting to see how high city and regional population are.

[colco2121 55]

try the CAM (Colossus addon mod) It is available a t the LEX and you will need a separate registration there to download it.

Best,

colco2121

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

You don't need CAM. CAM is a major upgrade(?) and isn't something you just try without serious work and research.

What you probably need is education levels well over 100, a nice environment with plazas, and some 4 x 4 high-density commercial lots, preferably on corners. Of course a population large enough to need these is also required.

Just persevere.

[colco2121 55]

Yeah, I never got those kind of buildings much. Just keep trying and maybe use some ploppable HK and NDEX buildings in the meantime. They are highly recommended by me!

Best,

colco2121

[T Wrecks 10,210]

That's all nice and well, but I think that using radical mods and/or plopping down stuff is the exact opposite of learning how to grow skyscrapers... it's not that hard once you got it. Not hard at all, actually. You just need the right conditions (this takes some time and patience) and the right approach (this is where we can help).

[Ion_Cannon 677]

You probably haven't reached high enough commerce levels regionwide to influence the stage cap levels enough so that a high % of buildings can be stage 8's.

EG - You need 43,859 CO jobs before stage 8 has a chance of appearing, however the max number of buildings that can be stage 8 or as a percentage of total office population is 2% at that population. As the office population increases the % chance of a stage 8 being built increases, EG at 125k CO jobs the % of stage 8 is 20% max approximately.

[Robsters 0]

This is my city and population on second shot as u can see the city is practically perfect apart from the rubbish dumb lol

[T Wrecks 10,210]

I see at least one Chong Inc. and one Reamon Plaza, so you already have stage 8 commercial highrises.

I also see several Bell Towers, so you also have stage 8 residential highrises.

You probably don't have more of the biggest commercial skyscrapers because you zoned way too much high-density commercial. I see loads and loads of smaller and medium-sized buildings, and I suspect that most of these (if not all) are sitting on high-density zones. This way you let the game scatter the demand you have over all those zones and make tons of small upgrades instead of channeling it all on one plot.

Simply take all areas where you least (or last) want to have skyscrapers and zone medium instead of high density. This will limit growth and allow demand to really build up. The more opportunities to upgrade you take away, the fewer places will be free for the game to squeeze all the demand into. And since the only way to squeeze many, many jobs onto a small plot of land is a skyscraper, skyscrapers will be what you get.

I usally use ONLY medium density first. This will give you buildings up to the size of Ajjanagadde Inc. and Vu Blue Denim Headquarters. Doesn't matter, because you need to reach stage 8 anyway before you can even get bigger buildings. When I'm pretty sure I have reached stage 8, and when a large amount of CO demand has built up, I pick a nice plot (high traffic, good public transport), add a few plazas, and lay out a single high-density zone. This will probably result in a skyscraper popping up. Should sufficient demand be left over, I repeat the procedure. Whatever I'm content with gets marked as historical. When demand is gone, I wait until it's up again and repeat the procedure.

And when I'm sick of all that mid-rise stuff like Vu Blue Denim, I bulldoze 3,000~6,000 jobs worth of that junk, remove the zones to prevent mid-rise stuff from growing right back, and channel the freed-up demand into one or two more high-density plots. And that's the way - one way - you grow skyscrapers easily and in a well controlled fashion.

[Ion_Cannon 677]

You can also change the size of your building plots to increase the likelihood of large skyscrapers occuring - most large stage 8's build on a 4x4 lot.

[Robsters 0]

thanks a lot for your advice i shall try this been trying to shift that rubbish dump to a neighbour city as well haha sweep it under the carpet, yeah simcity 4 quite different to sc2000 3k, i can see why everyone feels sc4 be to hard to ever beat with all mods etc and region play it never really get old that game, new simcity have be something very special to replace sc4 but get feeling new simcity be good but not a replacement, sc4 just such a massive simcity game

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Yeah, the switch from SC2K/3K to SC4 is rather radical. What I found to be most difficult was the total change from "if you can afford the zoning/plop cost, then you can afford the running costs" in SC2K/3K to "You can fill almost an entire medium-sized map with your starting money, and then you'll go bankrupt because maintenance costs will kill you slowly" in SC4. Took me a few attempts to get used to ignoring the bank account and watching that balance.

Well, good luck getting some cool skyscrapers - I'd love to see some before/after pictures of your success!

[Pudgy 2]

Would landmarks have a positive influence on the situation?

[nukeu123 307]

Would landmarks have a positive influence on the situation?

yes they provide some Comercial influence,

your cities look perfect for maxis skylines.... judging by the picture of the single city you should place more parks/plazas to rase land value also try zoning high comerance in 4x4 tiles, in case you dont know hold ctrl key while zoning to make the zone scale to one diseired lot

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Would landmarks have a positive influence on the situation?

Yes and no. If you look closely, he already has a lot of landmarks in the city. Landmarks (and plazas) increase desirablity for commercial buildings, and that's good. However, in this particular case the underlying problem is not so much lack of desirablity, but too many possibilities for the game to spread demand over hundreds of lots instead of focusing on a few.

I have had more stage 8 buildings in much smaller towns (and much less populated regions) without any actual landmark, just a few small plazas - not because I'm better or smarter or have better karma, simply because I used that "channeling" technique from the get-go. If you get the structure right, have suitable demand and plenty of traffic, you often don't need to spam landmarks everywhere to get some CO towers.

[Pudgy 2]

Would landmarks have a positive influence on the situation?

Yes and no. If you look closely, he already has a lot of landmarks in the city. Landmarks (and plazas) increase desirablity for commercial buildings, and that's good. However, in this particular case the underlying problem is not so much lack of desirablity, but too many possibilities for the game to spread demand over hundreds of lots instead of focusing on a few.

I have had more stage 8 buildings in much smaller towns (and much less populated regions) without any actual landmark, just a few small plazas - not because I'm better or smarter or have better karma, simply because I used that "channeling" technique from the get-go. If you get the structure right, have suitable demand and plenty of traffic, you often don't need to spam landmarks everywhere to get some CO towers.

I agree. I saw a YOU TUBE video about that strategy about that. It seems to work well. This is motivation enough to start a new city in my region and test the stategy.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

The snaps show a pretty well-balanced city. TWrecks is quite right about over-zoning high-density. Downgrade some of the zones and put the big 4 x 4 high-density lots on corners. This will help get more of them if that's what you want.

[Hellken 1,658]

Don't forget the value of adding parks. I notice you don't have many parks. After several tests to my old cities, parks GREATLY increase the chance of getting Stage 8 buildings. An old rundown district suddenly rebuilds itself once many parks are added.

Use the ingame parks or download the parks on sc4devotion (needs registration). I recommend the BLS and BSC parks.

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/

  Edited June 26, 2012 by Hellken  

[Robsters 0]

Hello again

ok i tried ya advice T Wrecks and managed to get 3 stage 8 skyscrapers, struggled to get anymore thou, I think its cause city not very big even thou region has 3 million sims! lol

anyway below some screen shots, 2 buildings not maxis buildings thou i musta installed mods years back but they did grow there own so guessing if mod building was removed wud show maxis stage 8 skyscraper? middle one is a maxis building either way first ever time got skyscapers to grow !

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Hey, congratulations!

I see at least six stage 8 buildings in the first picture. Commercial demand seems to be very high - does that also apply to the CO§§/CO§§§/CS§§§ department? If so (= demand of ~4,000 or higher), you can get more skyscrapers.

I see you zoned some exotic zone sizes. Did you do so on purpose (i.e., because you know you have BATs of that footprint), or is it just trial and error? If it's the former, make sure you have the correct tilesets activated for the respective building to grow. If it's the latter, I suggest starting with more generic lot sizes like 3x3, 3x4, 4x3, 4x4 (mostly!), 4x5, 5x4, 6x4... I see you have some NDEX downloads there, so I suppose you have more, that's why I mention the more "exotic" lot sizes (Maxis stuff is mostly 3x4 / 4x3 / 4x4).

Another thing you can do is make it easier for your Sims to work in one of those skyscrapers by adding bus and/or subway stops near the lots (and in residental areas, of course).

Finally, another little "cheat" is to spam the empty zone with mayor mode trees. Cover that zone with trees like there's no tomorrow, and a building might grow right under your cursor.

What also helps if you seem to get stuck is exit and change to a neighbour city, then come back.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

And I'll add a well done. If you want a shopping centre, the default ones grow on 6 x 6 or sometimes 5 x 5 lots. There are two by default: a shopping centre and a fashion centre. Funny shaped lots will only work if you have custom content for them.

  Edited June 28, 2012 by A Nonny Moose  

[Pudgy 2]

I see at least one Chong Inc. and one Reamon Plaza, so you already have stage 8 commercial highrises.

I also see several Bell Towers, so you also have stage 8 residential highrises.

You probably don't have more of the biggest commercial skyscrapers because you zoned way too much high-density commercial. I see loads and loads of smaller and medium-sized buildings, and I suspect that most of these (if not all) are sitting on high-density zones. This way you let the game scatter the demand you have over all those zones and make tons of small upgrades instead of channeling it all on one plot.

Simply take all areas where you least (or last) want to have skyscrapers and zone medium instead of high density. This will limit growth and allow demand to really build up. The more opportunities to upgrade you take away, the fewer places will be free for the game to squeeze all the demand into. And since the only way to squeeze many, many jobs onto a small plot of land is a skyscraper, skyscrapers will be what you get.

I usally use ONLY medium density first. This will give you buildings up to the size of Ajjanagadde Inc. and Vu Blue Denim Headquarters. Doesn't matter, because you need to reach stage 8 anyway before you can even get bigger buildings. When I'm pretty sure I have reached stage 8, and when a large amount of CO demand has built up, I pick a nice plot (high traffic, good public transport), add a few plazas, and lay out a single high-density zone. This will probably result in a skyscraper popping up. Should sufficient demand be left over, I repeat the procedure. Whatever I'm content with gets marked as historical. When demand is gone, I wait until it's up again and repeat the procedure.

And when I'm sick of all that mid-rise stuff like Vu Blue Denim, I bulldoze 3,000~6,000 jobs worth of that junk, remove the zones to prevent mid-rise stuff from growing right back, and channel the freed-up demand into one or two more high-density plots. And that's the way - one way - you grow skyscrapers easily and in a well controlled fashion.

this makes a lot of sense anyone who has ever lived in the stage 8 city would understand your perspective on the simulation.

[Robsters 0]

Hello T Wrecks

Thanks for your reply yeah I was very chuffed that I managed to make a few of the skyscrapers grow. Yeah the lot sizes was a trail and error, i ended up doing a lot of trial and error to get them to grow, I rezoned most of the map to medium commercial then added some plazas and made bigger zones for the dense commerial. I didn't realise about 4x4 lots, I actally forgot i had custom buildings in my plugin folder (not played the game since 2007 ) so kinda just picking up where i left off 5yrs ago.

I notice the new city I started next door has really high commercial and industrial but no residential, this city is clearly having an influence on the city next door? Simcity 4 really is much more complex haha, but I guess that's a good thing. Still getting the stage 8 towers is still quite hard but I'm glad I got 3 sky scrapers to grow! thank you! I guess the custom content towers growing on 4x4 lots is not great idea thou? would it be sucking up to many jobs in 1 tower? would it be a wise idea to remove the towers from the game plugin folder or leave them?

  Edited June 28, 2012 by Robsters  

[T Wrecks 10,210]

In my experience, most custom towers actually tend to offer too few jobs for their size. The tallest Maxis CO§§§ buildings hold ~7,500 jobs, and you will see considerably taller NDEX buildings with considerably fewer jobs, so if you're going for a massive skyline, you're on the right track. (Personally, I have come to appreciate mid-rise buildings and smaller highrises, with just a few exceptions, but that's just personal taste.)

What's useful is a "cheat sheet" where you write down lot sizes and tilesets of particular buildings. Then you can look it all up: "Now where's that spectacular CO§§ tower that would look so great at my waterfront? Oh, there it is - Houston tileset, 5x6 lot. Well okay then!" - and there you go.

I see you also noticed how neighbouring cities influence each other in terms of demand. You can use this to your advantage. Visit the cities around your metropolis-to-be and "collect" commercial demand (assuming they do have positive demand there). Then, as a last step, go back to the city with your planned CBD - it will now be updated, and it will "know/remember" the cumulative CO demand all around. This should give you something to play with...

[Darkwings 5]

I'd like to change the angle of the OP question...

Is there some specific reason why CO$$$ demand kicks the bucket after stage 6 ?

HT demand is skyrocketing, yet R$$$ is low (and I have the IHT bug-fix) while CO$$$ is negative.

I've seen the same pattern many times before (in different cities/regions): after the city really starts to bloom CO $$$ demand dies.

Since I don't know of any way to differentiate between CS and CO I can't really do much to improve CO (CS is low, but almost never negative).

Can the lack of traffic _alone_ kill CO$$$ ? It's the only factor I've not been trying to improve (since it could easily escalate and become a problem).

  Edited July 1, 2012 by Darkwings  

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Nope. Traffic is a desirability factor and has nothing whatsoever to do with demand. Demand doesn't get "killed", it gets satisfied. It may be that your CO§§§ demand plummets because after stage 6 you get CO§§§ buildings that hold more than just a handful of jobs, and if you have too many zones where these can grow, all your demand goes into a zillion of smaller office buildings instead of building up. Maybe your EQ isn't up to snuff yet?

[Darkwings 5]

That's something I already checked.

The EQ was 187 and I had a neighbor connection.

Since plazas etc don't affect demand, there's not much to do.

I tried lowering taxes to 3%, then 0%. The demand went even lower at some point (and I find that absurd).

Most probably the CO$$$ are spreading into small buildings, even with just a few C blocks.

Zero demand means I provided what they wanted, they took over and they're working fine.

What I don't get is why it goes negative on its own if I didn't do anything to worsen the situation.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

SimCity has a tendency to develop higher-wealth buildings where there is suitable desirability, but it can't always sustain them - happens with R$$$ a lot. It can also happen that demand gets "oversatisfied" a bit - actually that's quite life-like. IRL, I live in a city that built too many hotels, and now hotel capacities are too large, and hotel owners are struggling. In terms of SimCity, that would be a situation where high demand caused much building activity, and when the buildings were finished, people discovered that they had overdone it, and demand had actually turned negative.

What can contribute to the situation is an influx of new residents. These are typically rather badly educated (it takes a while for EQ boost to take effect), so they will demand less qualified jobs until their personal EQ has improved. You might not see this effect in the city EQ graph because the existing, well-educated Sims get even better at the same time.

[Darkwings 5]

The general problem is exactly what you pointed out: even if I didn't notice, they're spreading out too much.

I sorted that out simply by bulldozing the dilapidated R$$$ (lower wealth buildings took their place almost instantly) and the same goes for 'unwanted' C$$$ (popping up into weird locations).

The other factor is that even if there's a place with all desirability factors maxed out and another with the worst conditions possibile (aside ID pollution) R/C $$$ stuff can still grow in the latter place. I can't counter that in any way :|

Meanwhile I found out that those 3x2 R$$$ villas, being a 3x2 on a light density, become sort of permanent, preventing any same-density building from overtaking them (since most are smaller).

The same goes when switching to mid density, since there's not much 3x2 buildings at all.

When zoning 4x4 low density lots, the game automatically creates 2x1 plots. Re-zoning forcing 2x2 plots solved quite a bit of the problem, but it's really annoying.

  Edited July 3, 2012 by Darkwings  

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Yes, when the biggest and wealthiest building for a given lot size and density has grown, you have pretty much reached the end of the line. The only alternative in the case you mentioned would be three 1x2 low density homes that fill more demand than a single 3x2 mansion. Even then, the game would still have to split up the lot. As long as the building in question doesn't abandon or dilapidate, the game will never downgrade.

I totally know what you mean, and I think that Maxis set the desirability thresholds far too low. I realise they had to make the game appealing by giving mediocre players some gratification, but I would have preferred detailed settings where you could adjust parameters like that, even if it was only in a few large steps like easy/medium/hard.

Especially for R§§§, there is a mod out there by Bones1 - I don't remember the exact name, but I think it's called something like "Less Abandonment", because abandonment is often caused by the problem you experienced: desirability thresholds are too low => buildings grow in inappropriate areas => buildings get abandoned.

What you can do is use the "Make historical" feature a lot. It's tedious, sure, but I use that a lot to make sure I keep low and medium-wealth stuff where I think it looks appropriate, or smaller buildings where I think they make a good ensemble and wouldn't want to see them replaced by a skyscraper.

Another aspect of the game I don't like is that surrounding low-wealth buildings apparently aren't much of a turn-off for wealthy sims. I think ritzy condos should have a lower probability of popping up next to run-down tenements. *sigh*

As for your zoning problems, if you zone 4x4 (drag the zone while holding [CTRL]) and the backside of the lot doesn't touch any street, the game should be technically unable to split that up in 1x2 lots. It can only split the lot into strips each with a depth of the 4 tiles you zoned. <sarcasm> This means you will probably get two 2x4 flea markets there. </sarcasm>