Syria

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I believe this hot topic deserves its own thread. Things seem to be coming to a head as the diplmats seem to be reachng an impasse. Our Russian and Chinese "friends" seem to desire unrest in the world and fail to get on board with the rest of the U.N.

Today's developments.

If the new opposition leader can get any kind of control over the various factions, it may help.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Maybe they need a leader who doesn't lead from Sweden or Paris

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Probably wouldn't hurt if he at least appointed a deputy on the scene. He'd have to smuggled into Syria now. This kind of thing reminds me of a G & S character, the Duke of Plaza Toro. He always led his troops from behind.

The Syrians need a strong, charismatic leader on the ground probably with some real fighting experience.

[Silur 3,300]

I'm from "Your Russian "friend" Country, but I think - we must understand - what about Iraq, Afgan, Lybia, Tunisia, Yemen, Quatar - we have a wild flame around Israel ... Israel can hold defence against strong and organic enemies, but not against wild and hungry bandit gangs ...

Canada - is an Excellent place for any speech ...

Do You want have some trip to Syria with Kalashnikov-47 ?

UN can't do anything today ... May be only one reason for it - THIS YEAR NUMBER 2012 - END of the WORLD ?

And what about North Korea, Iran, Cuba and Venezuela ...

  Edited June 11, 2012 by Silur  

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

And in all that, what is your point? There is enough unrest in the world, and we are getting mighty sick of having our guys shot at because the U.N. debating club has no more power than a new born. Frankly, I think it is time for Russia and China to get on side with the rest of us, and put Mr. Assad on notice that he will be forcibly removed, one way or another. If the Syrians want to have a civil war, then let them stop targeting civilian women and children.

[matheuspaulo 62]

Americans and Russians just want use this situation for political interests as the cold war. thats modern expasionism.

Syrians need solve this problem withouth external influences, or they will pay a high price !

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Well, of course, everyone could butt out. Then I am sure the Assad forces could solve this with a standard terror campaign. Probably none of our business.

BTW, my Russian friend, you and I are neighbours over the pole. You must not let the width of the Atlantic fool you. The Arctic puts us a lot closer. I'll bet we could host your airmen at Alert and everyone would know everyone else.

[matheuspaulo 62]

We need understand that economy and politic is behind those military interventions. the same governments of USA and Russia that finances authoritarians regimes over the middle east and africa want solve the syrian problem.

A litte bit strange

[Odainsaker 2,133]

Strange, perhaps, but academic idealism can also leave us in armchair fantasyland...the Imperial American Empire and the Benevolent Russian Federation are not going away anytime soon, and the pragmatic realpolitik is that addressing the problems of Syria must ultimately involve the world powers. To hope otherwise for some kind of clean international bubble is unrealistic, and unrealistic solutions won't solve anything with Syria.

There will inevitiably be some ugly-sausage-making combination of politics, economics, demographics, and military strength, as that is the simple nature of human society, and the best we can do is manipulate the form of that combination to achieve desireable near- and long-term aims. Perhaps, one such aim here is the end of the immediately ongoing torture, mutilation, and mass slaying of children by the regime, whose acts can only be spurriously pinned to the evils of Western Imperialsim.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

CBC news ran some rather gruesome "unattributed" footage of mangled (living) children last night. Their commentator said while they were unauthenticated the news-people were pretty sure they were real. Maybe making future cripples out of babies is someone's idea of policy making, but it is not any I've heard of since Adolph the Aryan gassed and otherwise disposed of many.

It may be a huge job, but the individual perpetrators of these atrocities and dealt with "as wolves are". I can't think of anything suitable except maybe "flogging around the fleet" which amounts to 500 lashes with the cat. No one is on record of surviving that.

While it really hasn't come to wholesale slaughter and death camps, they can't be very far away. All this hooliganism, official or not, is reprehensible. The mayor (Assad) may not know what his town clowns (police) are up to. If not, he needs to give his head a shake. If this really is state terrorism, then Syria is already a failed state.

[matheuspaulo 62]

The same government which kill many people today was financied by americans and russians for many years. they dont need external help ( except food and water ) at this moment. syrian problem is politic. it seems a little bit strange but this conflict will end when military forces stop to support Assad.

Any one need to entry in sirian territory to kill much more of civilians. this problem can be solved with diplomacy. sometimes is easy to talk when you live in a politically stable region. you need to live in a countrie like Syria to understand how things really works.

We dont need any external help to depose military regime that control our contry during 40 years, and they shoot against civilians and tortured rebels like in Syria.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

When Caesar is slipping from power he always savages his own people. Examine history.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=274055

Oops. Too little, too late. What we have here is a full scale civil war.

It would appear that the "armed terrorists" are really revolutionaries, but they don't seem to have stated any policies or goals other than general disruption. The question is whether these revolutionaries are orchestrated by the extremist side of Islam or some other group.

If this is Iran via Hezbollah, things could get grim. I can see that there would be an advantage for Israel to rescue Assad.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

I hope us civilized nations don't interfere and allow the Syrians to blow themselves up (and allow refugees to live here).

[hym 358]

I hope us civilized nations don't interfere and allow the Syrians to blow themselves up (and allow refugees to live here).

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I hope us civilized nations don't interfere and allow the Syrians to blow themselves up (and allow refugees to live here).

Civilized? What do you consider civilized? It is all pretty barbaric no matter where you look.

Europe is on the edge of a precipice of chaos, and this will drag our civilization into something rather apocalyptic. It doesn't take a great war or a pandemic plague to do it, just idiots with an international credit card.

[matheuspaulo 62]

I hope us civilized nations don't interfere and allow the Syrians to blow themselves up (and allow refugees to live here).

Can you imagine you nation as "uncivilized" and the others telling to your people to blow themselves ?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Pilot defects.

Now this is a major crack in Assad's armour. Do you suppose the pilot (a colonel) finally decided that what they were doing was against his conscience?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

A pretext for trouble.

Some hot heads in Syria could get the whole ball rolling if they are not careful. Fortunately, as a NATO member, Turkey sought advice under Article 4 of the treaty, and while it got support, nobody at NATO is beating any war drums. Harsh words from the Turks, but it is all gas.

News reports last night suggest the high-command in Syria is leaking generals and others of high rank. Several have apparently arrived in Turkey inside refugee convoys.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Back-pedalling now.

Interestingly enough, it seems that the Syrian army is arriving as refugees in Turkey as well. Kofi Annan is right. It is time to come to the table and talk, Sheik Assad.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

I wish the good people luck. I certainly hope we get an influx of immigrants and refugees. I also hope that the bad people lose all their power in one way ... Or another.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I wish the good people luck. I certainly hope we get an influx of immigrants and refugees. I also hope that the bad people lose all their power in one way ... Or another.

Now why would you want to have an influx of Syrian displaced persons? Surely if they vote with their feet they are leaving the field to the villains?

It is pretty clear that boots on the ground is the only way to solve this, and the Arab League has to get up the gumption to do it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Bashir, the wheels are coming off!

If confirmed, maybe Assad will get the message.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

First Turkey and now Lebanon.

This problem can only be solved by Islamic countries. Boots on the ground in a peace-keeping force from the Arab League might work.

More shilly-shallying at the UN will go nowhere unless the Russians and the Chinese start to get the message. It wouldn't be the first time the western countries (NATO) slammed the door on both the Russians and the Chinese. This time, I hope they both get it in the shins.

After all this time, and the changed political picture, I think it is high time that the veto power in the Security Council should be removed, and the Permanent Members made impermanent. Of course, one could always dissolve the whole works. It is now no more effective than the League of Nations. We can just cherry pick the parts we want to keep, like the ITU and the ISO, and throw out the overhead.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

And some rebuttal from the other side of the story.

Now the question here is which is the proper sauce for the proper gander?

[hym 358]

What Assad fails to mention is that if the US was truly interested in destabilizing Syria, it would pay Turkey to shut off Syria's water supply. For the cost of about $10 million, the US could effectively overthrow the government in 48 hours, without putting a single soldier on the ground. The only reason he remains in power is because Washington would rather solve the issue in a more diplomatic and ethical manner.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Hmm. Reviewing Google's map of the area, Syria seems mostly dry, but there is a large water body inside its boundaries. Is Syria actually purchasing its potable water from the Turks?

Seems to me that when the water of life is at stake, the Assad regime would fall like a dry wasps nest.

[MayorInDamascus 0]

No, we don't buy our water from the Turks, we actually sell it to Jordan. The mostly dry area you mentioned is the Syrian desert, Uninhabited.

Before you start considering cutting the water supply of the people as a solution (or the Euphrates river if that's what you meant?), why don't you think about stopping Russia and Iran from selling tanks oil to the regime first. Not to mention the billions of ammo and all the missle systems, thanks a lot Potin!

BTW the reason we don't have a leader is that it all started out as a peacful people revolution, when you fight for freedom everybody becomes a leader.

[raja_indy14 8]

UN reform that eliminates the veto is beyond impossible. Each power guards that right jealously, none more so than the United States (which would likely leave the UN if it didn't have it).

As for the water supply idea, virtually all of Syria's drinking supply comes from ground water sources so it is hardly, if at all, dependent on Turkey. From wiki: "All major cities - with the exception of Aleppo – and all rural distribution networks in the rural areas are supplied with water of good quality from springs and groundwater. Major water treatment facilities exist only for the domestic water supply system for Aleppo, which is provided with water from Lake Assad."

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

No, we don't buy our water from the Turks, we actually sell it to Jordan. The mostly dry area you mentioned is the Syrian desert, Uninhabited.

Before you start considering cutting the water supply of the people as a solution (or the Euphrates river if that's what you meant?), why don't you think about stopping Russia and Iran from selling tanks oil to the regime first. Not to mention the billions of ammo and all the missile systems, thanks a lot Putin!

BTW the reason we don't have a leader is that it all started out as a peaceful people revolution, when you fight for freedom everybody becomes a leader.

Welcome to Simtropolis and the conversation.

It is really good to have a voice from the area of the conflict.

Unfortunately, your quiet revolution was ill-received by the despot, and you now really do need a leader on the ground with very good charisma that the people will follow. Scattered attempts against the organized military gets some pretty horrible results. I hope your people can find a way.

UN reform that eliminates the veto is beyond impossible. Each power guards that right jealously, none more so than the United States (which would likely leave the UN if it didn't have it).

As for the water supply idea, virtually all of Syria's drinking supply comes from ground water sources so it is hardly, if at all, dependent on Turkey. From wiki: "All major cities - with the exception of Aleppo – and all rural distribution networks in the rural areas are supplied with water of good quality from springs and groundwater. Major water treatment facilities exist only for the domestic water supply system for Aleppo, which is provided with water from Lake Assad."

UN reform is like asking a man to give up water. I know that, but I like to stick a pin in the donkey when I get a chance.

One only has to look at a map to realize that Syria has its own water. I had actually forgotten that Aleppo is in Syria. Seems now that I remember it is a port city.

"Her husband's to Aleppo gone

"The master of the Tiger.

"Thither will I in a sieve, and

"Like a rat without a tail

"I'll do, and I'll do, and I'll do."

Wm. Shakespeare (Macbeth)