Latest dev interview and potential problems with forced multiplayer build

[mk11232 105]

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/04/24/simcity-dev-we-built-this-from-the-ground-up-to-be-a-multiplayer-game/

The latest interview from PC Gamer in which the developer states multiplier interaction is the real purpose of the game. I can think of two major issues I haven't seen addressed by the developers which could greatly impact the enjoyment of the game.

First, griefing will be a major factor and I don't think the developers have realized how bad this can be nor thought of ways to combat it. All cities will be affected by the other cities around it and compete for resources. It is conceivable and expected (since humans like to be jerks) that someone will find your nice pretty city and dump a completely dirty-industrial hogging one next to it. Suddenly your rivers, water tables are polluted and clogged, your forest and other resources are being taken and you can no longer play your city your way because of some jerk.

Second, longevity is gone and hello future subscription payments or server shutdown. The current game is billed as a one-time purchase and you will be able to play, have access to the "cloud" and no worry about giving EA more money for the game. I don't think this is realistic. SimCity4 was dumped by the developers when it no longer made money and kept going by community involvement. This round, they are incorporating cloud servers as a mandatory requirement and built the game around multiplier interaction. What ill happen in 3-4 years when nobody is buying this game new yet people are playing it? Those servers cost money to up-keep and run, how long will they keep the server on at a loss to the company? My answer, they'll pull the plug at some point or they will introduce a subscription based model if you want to keep playing. They will not re-code the game to work offline as that cost money, they'll either cut the rope or make you pay and this is an issue not brought up by developers...the long term game plan.

[Moskva 75]

Well said. I also can't figure out how they can make resources finite. So each city will be totally dependant from outside? No Pyongyang for me? Tsk!

  Edited April 24, 2012 by Blue Lightning  
Cleaned up a smidge of language

[meowza 230]

They already stated that you have the option to play a whole region on your own, thus only the world economy could possibly grief you in this case.

Topics that already exist:

[Blurque 9]

What would happen if the simulation rules say that the world would come in an economic crisis (like now). Would all cities stop functioning? Nobody would play it anymore because it's no fun always being in an economic crisis..

[Ocram's Razr 964]

1. Advertising could fund the servers and DLC could further the longevity.

2. Greifing should not be an issue because you can play single player or with certain trusted friends. Now, if the "owner" of the region decides to start griefing...

3. If the servers stop being sustainable, a Global Depression could kick the weak out.

[Mark Waybill 242]

Griefing is not an issue if you plan. If you intend to build an ideal city, play solo or with trusted friends. If you intend to experiment or grow a city organically play with friends. If you wish to build a completely experimental venture play with randoms. It's a simple social algorithm really. If you like someone you won't grief them, so the chat feature will make Mayors into friends or enemies as the case would be IRL. Councils do compete. And purpose troll cities/Mayors could be reported and have a strike system, then booted from multiplayer. Easy. Game data could be used in a 'trial' if they wanted to push it one step further and be realistic and fair.

[Bipin 3,403]

As long as users can create their own private servers to host the game, rather than rent them from big names like LeetServers, among others. Sooner or later someone will crack the game and be able to add their own private servers. It already happened with BF3, and a lesser known version of Battlefield called BFP4F which was super-restrictive on allowing personal servers. If worst comes to worst, Simtropolis could have it's own server for SImtropolis users only. If you really wanted to control all aspects of the game, you could just host your own server, one player only, and emulate single-player possibly.

[Moskva 75]

As long as users can create their own private servers to host the game, rather than rent them from big names like LeetServers, among others. Sooner or later someone will crack the game and be able to add their own private servers. It already happened with BF3, and a lesser known version of Battlefield called BFP4F which was super-restrictive on allowing personal servers. If worst comes to worst, Simtropolis could have it's own server for SImtropolis users only. If you really wanted to control all aspects of the game, you could just host your own server, one player only, and emulate single-player possibly.

Still i could not stand against the double BS of finite resourch and global economy. I understand there are recessions and golden times, but i do not want to be without control of my city because hordes of noobs are playing and somehow damaging my city. There should be other options, like closed markets, i always wanted a "socialist" option for this game, making perhaps even more complex. Like if there's a central government telling you what to do and what production quotes reach .

[Mark Waybill 242]

A government style or economic style like socialism could be developed at a later date, or you could just build your economy like Stalin did on large collective farms and industry.

[NCGAIO 562]

First, griefing will be a major factor and I don't think the developers have realized how bad this can be nor thought of ways to combat it.

Surprise - 1 - What they think about it!

- http://sc4devotion.c...20734#msg420734

Second, longevity is gone and hello future subscription payments or server shutdown.

Surprise - 2 - How much do they bother with it!

- http://sc4devotion.c...18979#msg418979

I hope that clarifies.

  Edited April 24, 2012 by NCGAIO  

[Asheroo 53]

They already stated that you have the option to play a whole region on your own, thus only the world economy could possibly grief you in this case.

And that's exactly why it's still multiplayer and why we need a true single player. Having your trade and resource prices be affected by every other player is just silly and certainly unwelcoming to the many of us who would prefer not to have such a challenge.

I get that the developers are trying to make this game as realistic as possible, but this is just a step too far for realism. In the end, it's still just a game. We're not all mayors or professional city managers, we're just players that are playing a game. The game is great but the global game economy just ruins the fun for me. I'm a city builder that wants to create the city of my dreams without any money worries. I'd rather not have that challenge of getting money and making deals with other players.

[croxis 150]

They already stated that you have the option to play a whole region on your own, thus only the world economy could possibly grief you in this case.

And that's exactly why it's still multiplayer and why we need a true single player. Having your trade and resource prices be affected by every other player is just silly and certainly unwelcoming to the many of us who would prefer not to have such a challenge.

I get that the developers are trying to make this game as realistic as possible, but this is just a step too far for realism. In the end, it's still just a game. We're not all mayors or professional city managers, we're just players that are playing a game. The game is great but the global game economy just ruins the fun for me. I'm a city builder that wants to create the city of my dreams without any money worries. I'd rather not have that challenge of getting money and making deals with other players.

How do you know? Have you played the game? Have you seen a review or preview or a dev interview which describes how the global economy impacts the city and to what degree? I must of missed it. Do you have a link? All i know so far is there is a global economy, but how that impacts player cities is something I haven't seen yet.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

You could always trade with yourself. Without cheating mods, you were forced to trade at extortion prices with OmniCorp in Cities XL while the abysmal Planet Offer let other mayors trade with each other and set price agreements.

A free market was one of MY proposals to The Metropolis Project AND to Boomtown. I do not know about you but I know that I very much favor a free market. I read that you can play with Origin in off-line mode so I am content.

I believe in the Free Market. I believe in Capitalism. I believe in Freedom.

  Edited April 25, 2012 by Hamish  

[Mark Waybill 242]

I think the economy will have to be a basic 'free market' for fairness and realism's sake. However one could simulate a different 'economic style' (trying to keep PC and avoid the p word) by the resources one harvests and the amount one puts into things such as healthcare, how one manages these things.

Besides this is primarily a game for making 'Western' cities which are capitalist, and the game has always been very much biased in that economic and social direction since Will Wright first made Micropolis in 1980 whatever. Utopian societies, whether feasible or not, have little place in a business/economy simulation game. Or we can just build forest arcos?

[meowza 230]

They already stated that you have the option to play a whole region on your own, thus only the world economy could possibly grief you in this case.

And that's exactly why it's still multiplayer and why we need a true single player. Having your trade and resource prices be affected by every other player is just silly and certainly unwelcoming to the many of us who would prefer not to have such a challenge.

I get that the developers are trying to make this game as realistic as possible, but this is just a step too far for realism. In the end, it's still just a game. We're not all mayors or professional city managers, we're just players that are playing a game. The game is great but the global game economy just ruins the fun for me. I'm a city builder that wants to create the city of my dreams without any money worries. I'd rather not have that challenge of getting money and making deals with other players.

How do you know? Have you played the game? Have you seen a review or preview or a dev interview which describes how the global economy impacts the city and to what degree? I must of missed it. Do you have a link? All i know so far is there is a global economy, but how that impacts player cities is something I haven't seen yet.

IGN:

...

How you choose to focus your city will also affect every other SimCity player in the world. Going back to our coal-producing player again, imagine that they become the single biggest producer of coal in the world; they have the best refineries and richest natural resources. They can sell off their excess coal to neighbors or the world at large, helping determine the global price via a supply vs. demand model. Imagine, then, that they're suddenly struck by something horrific like an earthquake or tornado, dropping their production to near zero. With a shortage in supply, the price could spike, allowing other players to capitalize on the unfortunate turn of events for the world's biggest coal baron.

...

http://uk.pc.ign.com.../1221790p1.html

There are other similar references as to how the world economy (supply and demand) is currently expected to work.

No media/public early hands-on demo has been made available yet, as far as I know.

Ofcourse, nothing is final until the release.

[Asheroo 53]

Though, it is very worrying that over the past month, despite the backlash, the developers have been keeping firm with this whole 'multiplayer' thing and keeping the game so real that you have to connect with the online market to play.

What are the chances of that changing? I don't know but I wouldn't hope too much yet. If we really want this changed then we really need to act instead of laying back and hoping it will change. Unfortunately with the statements given from Maxis over the past month, they seemed to have had lost some credibility.

[Mootilda 76]

"Always online" is likely an EA policy and not something that the Maxis development group has much control over. Although it would be really nice to see them reconsider this policy, it seems very unlikely that they will.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Sorry that was a tiny bit of 2012 sarcasm. The sarcasm mark is not a supported character on this forum.

[nashville nelson 51]

We can also read the IGN quote like this:

...

How you choose to focus your city will also affect every other SimCity player in the world. Going back to our coal-producing player again, imagine that they become the single biggest producer of coal in the world; they have the best refineries and richest natural resources. They can sell off their excess coal to neighbors or the world at large, helping determine the global price via a supply vs. demand model. Imagine that they're some trolls struck by the idea to provoke a global crisis, dropping their production to near zero. With a shortage in supply, the price could spike, forcing other players to react to the world's biggest coal troll.

...

Maybe it would be a good idea to warehouse goods so we can react on a larger time scale.

[NCGAIO 562]

"Always online" is likely an EA policy and not something that the Maxis development group has much control over. Although it would be really nice to see them reconsider this policy, it seems very unlikely that they will.

Origin is doing quite well: 9.3 million registered users, $100 million revenue since launch

source:http://www.pcgamer.c...e-since-launch/

What is the value that this small amount of users captives, should represent in the market value of the EA - ( as much as 5 billion U.S. dollars)

They will not give up this business just because some are unhappy ... or will they??

  Edited April 27, 2012 by NCGAIO  

[croxis 150]

IGN:

...

How you choose to focus your city will also affect every other SimCity player in the world. Going back to our coal-producing player again, imagine that they become the single biggest producer of coal in the world; they have the best refineries and richest natural resources. They can sell off their excess coal to neighbors or the world at large, helping determine the global price via a supply vs. demand model. Imagine, then, that they're suddenly struck by something horrific like an earthquake or tornado, dropping their production to near zero. With a shortage in supply, the price could spike, allowing other players to capitalize on the unfortunate turn of events for the world's biggest coal baron.

...

http://uk.pc.ign.com.../1221790p1.html

There are other similar references as to how the world economy (supply and demand) is currently expected to work.

No media/public early hands-on demo has been made available yet, as far as I know.

Ofcourse, nothing is final until the release.

That still doean't answer my question.

How do you know? Have you played the game? Have you seen a review or preview or a dev interview which describes how the global economy impacts the city and to what degree? I must of missed it. Do you have a link? All i know so far is there is a global economy, but how that impacts player cities is something I haven't seen yet.

[Mark Waybill 242]

Since when was 9.3 million a small figure? There's 4 million people in Sydney.

[meowza 230]

IGN:

...

How you choose to focus your city will also affect every other SimCity player in the world. Going back to our coal-producing player again, imagine that they become the single biggest producer of coal in the world; they have the best refineries and richest natural resources. They can sell off their excess coal to neighbors or the world at large, helping determine the global price via a supply vs. demand model. Imagine, then, that they're suddenly struck by something horrific like an earthquake or tornado, dropping their production to near zero. With a shortage in supply, the price could spike, allowing other players to capitalize on the unfortunate turn of events for the world's biggest coal baron.

...

http://uk.pc.ign.com.../1221790p1.html

There are other similar references as to how the world economy (supply and demand) is currently expected to work.

No media/public early hands-on demo has been made available yet, as far as I know.

Ofcourse, nothing is final until the release.

That still doean't answer my question.

How do you know? Have you played the game? Have you seen a review or preview or a dev interview which describes how the global economy impacts the city and to what degree? I must of missed it. Do you have a link? All i know so far is there is a global economy, but how that impacts player cities is something I haven't seen yet.

Isn't the question: "to what degree?" too much to ask at this point? Nobody knows for sure what the answer to that question is. All the answers to our questions are essentially based on hearsay from the media. You should take things with a grain of salt, and not as an absolute. Thus like I said,nothing is final until release.

[croxis 150]

Isn't the question: "to what degree?" too much to ask at this point? Nobody knows for sure what the answer to that question is. All the answers to our questions are essentially based on hearsay from the media. You should take things with a grain of salt, and not as an absolute. Thus like I said,nothing is final until release.

That is the point I am trying to make. Some people are very vocal about their upset over the global economy, but we have NO clue on what the impact is.

[meowza 230]

Isn't the question: "to what degree?" too much to ask at this point? Nobody knows for sure what the answer to that question is. All the answers to our questions are essentially based on hearsay from the media. You should take things with a grain of salt, and not as an absolute. Thus like I said,nothing is final until release.

That is the point I am trying to make. Some people are very vocal about their upset over the global economy, but we have NO clue on what the impact is.

Atleast we're somewhat on the same ground. Though I can't say that we have absolutely no clue, 'cause we've definitely been given the hints. It's about being cautious and connecting the dots logically - this does not necessarily mean that people are jumping to absurd conclusions, instead, all of which are simply assumptions.

But sadly, in some cases like you said, people do take things as if the release date is due in a few days. And I think that's unavoidable with all the worries and controversies looming around.