How much will SimCity change in dev?

[LivingInThePast 364]

Back in the Cities Unlimited/Cities XL days, city building fans watched as a once-promising title that could be a true spiritual successor to SimCity collapsed into the world's suckiest MMO. Given the discontent over the multiplayer emphasis over SimCity '13, is it possible SimCity '13 will change for the better in development, perhaps de-emphasizing multiplayer, and maybe, just maybe, be worthy enough for the mythical "5" in its name?

It begs the question.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

1. There will be no 5 in its name.

2. There will be improvements over Development besides finalizing and bug fixing.

[SStr224 0]

I don't think anyone who isn't a member of the EA/Maxis team creating the game can say for sure, at least not now. It appears that they're almost ignoring the SimCity fan community right now, though being Maxis, they do have a tendency to obey the demands of the community. We'll just have to wait and see. Bear in mind that the game won't be released for another year, and I read in another post that they were only about 1/3 finished the development, so they still have plenty of time to alter possible game requirements and/or features.

  Edited April 17, 2012 by SStr224  

[Mark Waybill 242]

'obey the demands of the community'

Way to make them realise this and stop doing this lol. But seriously, I don't know if the legendary 5 will be created this time round, or whether it will ever arise. I am mildly optimistic regarding this version, but unless they stop worrying about stupid EA and some deadline or what have you and just work on finishing the game before releasing it... Quality over quantity as they say. The whole tileset/heroes and villains thing worries me a bit. While in theory it doesn't necessarily detract from the gameplay experience if it is optional, it does take up development time.

If they give us al the features that existed in former versions, with the new graphics and added flexibility (curvy roads) and realism (resources, cars not dissapearing) make it tidy and presentable, shoot all the bugs, and make it hard copy and sell it in a bubble separate from this universe that is still in the 90s and where Windows 98 has just been released, then they might succeed.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

If their specification is now cast in concrete, then a change will have more paper work than an act of Congress. They won't be able to change direction once they get past the Alpha (in-house) testing. Anything that comes up after that will go into the next EP or the next game.

[ziroi 14]

I think it depends on how tightly the game's core engine and features integrate with everything else. If you go too far in developement, changing one seemingly minor thing can take a hundred man hours to get straight. You can guess what the developers would do.

That said, there is still a lot of time left. I think the biggest changes will come in user-end feature sets and graphics. The simulation engine is probably done by now.

So, I don't think we're going to see a departure from multiplayer emphasis by now, but we could see single-player emphasis increase perhaps.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

For them not to even consider a change from online only is like a truck full of smiling fools headed for a solid brick wall.

And don't nobody say "they said you can play solo". That's bull. ANY dependency for the city to update from an external influence is not a solo game. I think we can safely say that many many fans do not want this. If some kind of compromise is not reached they are more foolish than Monte Cristo was. I would then give up on the gaming industry all together and dust off my windows 98 disc and play those real PC games that i have with no DRM and work perfectly.

[Mark Waybill 242]

If what I hear about not having zone density control is true I aint hopping on that happy truck.

[Mootilda 76]

If you have any actual proof of no density control, you should give us the links. Otherwise, I consider it an unfounded rumor.

[croxis 150]

The reality is that the game design documents has probably been set and finalized a while ago. It doean't mean it cant change, but the chances of sweeping changes is very low.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

It will change, obviously bugs will be squashed, art will made and altered, planned features will be implimented (or cut), and the product will be finalyzed. Hopefully they have planned all the features we want and won't cut any.

[croxis 150]

http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/sll6l/game_informer_simcity_preview_reveals_a_few/

The player wont specificly zone density. Density is set by the road type connected to it and general traffic.

Water, coal, oil, and ore are in as terrain resources.

This is new to me: regions consit of cities and great works -- so these large projects are not part of a city specificly. We will have to see the region mechanics to see how this works out. They give an example of a solar farm which would provide power to the region.

[jacksunny 741]

I don't like the way densities work at all. Let's use residential for example. If I understand correctly, all residential lots connected to a certain transit type can only be one density type. For example, all residential lots connected to a street are low density, roads would be medium and avenues high. Is this basically how it works?

[flowmotion 24]

I don't think anyone who isn't a member of the EA/Maxis team creating the game can say for sure, at least not now. It appears that they're almost ignoring the SimCity fan community right now, though being Maxis, they do have a tendency to obey the demands of the community. We'll just have to wait and see. Bear in mind that the game won't be released for another year, and I read in another post that they were only about 1/3 finished the development, so they still have plenty of time to alter possible game requirements and/or features.

Developing a sequel to a older popular game is a difficult balancing act between appealing to 'the community' of hard core players versus making the game accessible to newbies & casuals. The hardcore players are into customization and micromanagement, while I'd say the average player would be happy with some pretty buildings, funny disasters, and curvy roads. However, the critical thing for both groups is a solid simulator engine underneath.

(I have to admit that a lot of the more 'micro' suggestions in the wishlist thread don't sound very fun to me at all.)

SimCity originally was an educational game aimed at high school students. Now we have an entire generation of teenagers where SimCity4 was "before their time". So to some extent, they do need to get back to the basics.

[flowmotion 24]

I don't like the way densities work at all. Let's use residential for example. If I understand correctly, all residential lots connected to a certain transit type can only be one density type. For example, all residential lots connected to a street are low density, roads would be medium and avenues high. Is this basically how it works?

I actually like the idea (at least in theory). You want skyscrapers? Build a subway system. You want a shopping mall? Build a freeway exit. In the real world, density depends on accessibility, not just where the mayor decided to put things.

[Mark Waybill 242]

I daresay road type will act like density type. High capacity is like high density zone. Not all lots are hi-cap, but can be.

[waybig 35]

I'm not sure how I feel about this new zoning system either. Basing zone density on road type and traffic levels is all well and good, but oftentimes density doesn't go hand-in-hand with the latter two. For instance, there have been a number of occasions where I've built a suburban area (lots of cul-de-sacs, "master-planned" subdivisions, 100% single-family detached homes) along a two lane road. Traffic levels obviously become quite high, but the houses built along the road never upgrade into towers, even if I widen the road into an avenue. I hope that's still possible in the new game, or at least a way to easily preserve an area at a particular density.

  Edited April 22, 2012 by waybig  

[Ocram's Razr 963]

1. I live in Seattle. Near the Space Needle, there is a height limit. We have large roads with heavy traffic and really high land value near there but our zoning commissioner want ABSOLUTELY NOTHING obstructing the view of the Space Needle.

2. Regional landmarks/monuments/mega structures seem cool.

3. I like there being metal as resource though I hope that precious metal and industrial metal being treated differently (and there being a gem resource).

[Mark Waybill 242]

I definitely think we should have the ability to limit density/height, although as a rule of thumb road based density might work

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

So what if I want a suburban neighborhood with masions and two family houses on a tree lined avenue? And what if I want to make neighborhoods look like some areas of the Bronx where there are high deensity apartment buildings along one way streets?

[Mark Waybill 242]

It sounds terribly flawed. let's hope it's just a default setting and when you actually zone you can change these things. Density enforced by road type... Would be extremely limiting. So that's why I don't believe they would do that, and that this is just some basic setting for mass zoning or something.

[knighthawk75 56]

The reality is that the game design documents has probably been set and finalized a while ago. It doean't mean it cant change, but the chances of sweeping changes is very low.

This!

After this spring\summer rest assured there will be no core\major design changes if they are going to hit a 2013 retail date.

[cirugo 1,889]

http://www.reddit.co..._reveals_a_few/

The player wont specificly zone density. Density is set by the road type connected to it and general traffic.

Water, coal, oil, and ore are in as terrain resources.

This is new to me: regions consit of cities and great works -- so these large projects are not part of a city specificly. We will have to see the region mechanics to see how this works out. They give an example of a solar farm which would provide power to the region.

I hadn't heard that...I would hope there would be some way to work around it. The forced multi-player is the game-killer for me. I really, really hope they are paying attention. Yes, some people don't care but enough do that it will make a difference.

[LivingInThePast 364]

The road density thing doesn't sound great...what if I want a "no-zoning" city, which produces interesting cityscapes, like Houston? I always imagined a "no-zone" area that could develop anything (a wild card) as a "red" zone (complementing the green R, blue C, and yellow I, as SimCity tradition).

Why did Maxis basically finalize all this beforehand? It's like, "We want a multiplayer SimCity with RESOURCES. Now, let's think of a game!"

[Mark Waybill 242]

A 'no zone' would be a high density zone? Just without enforced high density? Like a present standard hi density zone?

[ziroi 14]

I don't understand the community here sometimes. The zone-control system they seem to be implementing (which, in an attempt to stay remotely on-topic, is probably something that won't change during development) is more true-to-life to city development than SC4's zoning control ever was, in my opinion. It evolves naturally with the transportation you choose and the traffic that occurs. Zoning laws and restrictions are a fact of life for the construction industry and business owners. You can't just zone for high-density on a small street, or even a major road because you want to. The transport infrastructure has to support the potential influx of car/foot traffic. In other words, it's even more realistic than SC4. This is good, right? This is what we wanted! And yet, there are complaints that this decision "dumbs-down" the gameplay. I admit that this isn't a perfect model and there are flaws (old single-family homes on a major avenue isn't an uncommon sight). If we get too realistic though, the game will be boring.

So which is it? Do you want a more realistic city simulator or god-like control of every aspect of your city (macro or micro)? You really can't have both. If you are a real mayor of a town, much of your city's development is out of your hands.

I think we're forgetting that Maxis called this game a "reboot". Starting over. Maxis isn't making SimCity 4 + tons more. We already have that (thank you amazing modding community).

  Edited April 23, 2012 by ziroi  

[brynhyfryd 222]

The fact is that most players want a bigger and better version of simcity 4 and not an MMO.

I highly doubt that the dev cycle will change much from now on with the exception of minor changes. EA will eventually regret this decision.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

I don't understand the community here sometimes. The zone-control system they seem to be implementing (which, in an attempt to stay remotely on-topic, is probably something that won't change during development) is more true-to-life to city development than SC4's zoning control ever was, in my opinion. It evolves naturally with the transportation you choose and the traffic that occurs. Zoning laws and restrictions are a fact of life for the construction industry and business owners. You can't just zone for high-density on a small street, or even a major road because you want to. The transport infrastructure has to support the potential influx of car/foot traffic. In other words, it's even more realistic than SC4. This is good, right? This is what we wanted! And yet, there are complaints that this decision "dumbs-down" the gameplay. I admit that this isn't a perfect model and there are flaws (old single-family homes on a major avenue isn't an uncommon sight). If we get too realistic though, the game will be boring.

So which is it? Do you want a more realistic city simulator or god-like control of every aspect of your city (macro or micro)? You really can't have both. If you are a real mayor of a town, much of your city's development is out of your hands.

I think we're forgetting that Maxis called this game a "reboot". Starting over. Maxis isn't making SimCity 4 + tons more. We already have that (thank you amazing modding community).

Again I ask, what if I want to make an area that resembles areas in the Bronx or Crown Heights Brooklyn? There are many high density apartment buildings on one way streets. It is not uncommon to see this in NYC. And also think about Wall Street or the upper east side of Manhattan. Mostly small one way streets with sky scrapers. And also Ocean Parkway in Brooklyn is a wide avenue-like street (parkway with six lanes and service lanes bringing it to 8 lanes) and it has two and three family houses and mansions pretty much the whole stretch. I don't see how density by transport network type would allow for emulating some real life situations when it comes to zoning. So if someone wants to create Manhattan, all the streets must be avenues? come on.

[Tarkus 6,931]

I think from what I understand of the discussion, it's not the width of the road/capacity of the transit network, so much as it's the volume. It's not a "build it and they will come" approach from what I'm able to discern.

[Mark Waybill 242]

If you could build various road types and various road volume amounts were a separate control, that would be ok. But I agree with the concerns expressed because not many cities were designed from the ground up anyway, most evolve over time. So even if road based density is realistic in some areas and logical, I still want to be able to have a small family house on the Princes Highway like they do have a lot of, or a tall residential block on a side street like they do here in the Gong. Here in Australia our cities have large swathes of suburban land and development alongside say the Hume Highway or the Great Western Highway in Sydney can range from small houses to tall apartment blocks, likewise with a small side street.

As a rule of thumb it could work, but ideally volume and road type would be separate. However I'd still like to be able to have a tall tower construction on a lane if I wished to, or a row of small houses that remain a row of small houses on a highway. That is perfectly realistic. If I wanted to build a logical city that worked like clockwork I'd construct an arcology.