Thanksgiving Tower Dallas, Tx

[RQTect777 11]

Hey guys, since I saw Scotty222's building "Bank of America Plaza" I wanted to make a building from downtown Dallas as well.

I live in Dallas, so that's another reason. Here are some thumbnail pics I have already. Tell me what you think Oh and

the dimensions of this building aren't right yet, like I said, just a thumbnail

Day

night

the real building

  Edited January 12, 2012 by RQTect777  

[harishna 847]

Well there is no much to say especially if as the dimensions are not right, except that it is WAY too early to work with the night lights. But seems like a good start..

[RQTect777 11]

Well there is no much to say especially if as the dimensions are not right, except that it is WAY too early to work with the night lights. But seems like a good start..

I was just trying to get an idea of what it might look like, is there a site I can go to to get exact dimensions of this building?

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Yes, you can use the Ruler tool in Google Earth to get width and depth (see this post), and probably resources like Emporis.com to get the height.

If you stick to these measurements more or less and scale your building to ~133% on the Z axis (height), you should get a fairly accurate overall shape.

[RQTect777 11]

Yes, you can use the Ruler tool in Google Earth to get width and depth (see this post), and probably resources like Emporis.com to get the height.

If you stick to these measurements more or less and scale your building to ~133% on the Z axis (height), you should get a fairly accurate overall shape.

Thanks so much T Wrecks, This will definitely get me past my problem!

[T Wrecks 10,210]

You're welcome. In any case, I recommend making a very basic model just to gauge scale and proportions in game first, and if you're satisfied with the dimensions, it's time to do the rest. Finishing it all up only to run into endless scaling problems with a model that's a pain to modify and re-render is probably a very frustrating experience. Simple placeholder textures (e.g. solid blue for windows, solid grey for concrete) can help you get a feeling of the overall impression during the modeling stage, but final texturing and night lighting is probably something you should tackle after the modeling is done.

I wish you the best of luck and success in your BAT endeavour!

[RQTect777 11]

Thanks for the extra information T Wrecks! Here's a little update on the tower.

The dimensions are correct. It's a 5x3 tile

  Edited January 14, 2012 by RQTect777  

[RQTect777 11]

working on the roof. tell me what you guys think

[harishna 847]

A few notes:

Usually people tend to first model the tower then move into the roof and then the small details including roof junk, it is easier to work from the most general to the most particular, this helps you to avoid having to re-adapt, re-scale or re-model things.Try to follow a logical order...

Bat4Max preview renders are more useful.

The heliport looks un-realistic..

[RQTect777 11]

Little update, just need to add the glass(which I probably will need help on), finish the roof and the base, and night lights

Harishna: I agree, I will follow a more logical order next time when I'm modeling my next project, it does get a little screwy. Anyways, I've added

a set of stairs to the helipad and a little bit more roof junk around it. Could you tell me how I could improve the helipad

into making it more realistic? Thanks

Harishna: here's is a close up on the helipad >>

  Edited January 16, 2012 by RQTect777  

[RQTect777 11]

I've added the glass and worked on the bottom some, not done with the top or bottom yet. Then after that I'll add the night lights.

I also have a question, does anyone know how I can hide the plane, but keep the reflection of it? otherwise I'll have to Photoshop the plane out. Thanks!

[Sniper296 83]

Open layers, open the properties for your plane and uncheck the box "Visible to Camera". Shouldn't the reflection on a building at this angle(SC4 camera) be of buildings and streets and not the sky?

[Cockatoo 2,257]

You're coming along in leaps and bounds on the modelling / texturing front. Well done! I really like the reflective glass. The roof does still need a little work though... I'd be adding things like railing, antenna and I'd probably alter the texturing on and around that helipad.

I get the feeling that you're still confused when it comes to the 'BAT4Max' side of things though - that is correctly using Let There Be Light, making LODs, previewing and eventually exporting.

I've never seen previews quite like the ones you've shown above. They seem to be from some sort of SC4-ish perspective, but the shadows are going in the complete wrong direction - this will be a noticeable problem in the game. Here's what I think you need to do to fix the problem...

Entirely remove the lighting and camera rigs from your scene. To do this: first hit the Delete Rig Lights button under the Let There Be Light rollout. Now find and delete you’re TB2CameraHandle (right click > unhide all > yes > right click > unfreeze all > yes > select TB2CameraHandle from selection window > delete). Now remove the camera rig from your scene (max button > references > xref scene > select entry and hit remove). Press the Day button again to reset everything (hopefully) back to the way it should be.

Create a box around your tower (the same size as the orange thing and the same height as the highest part of the tower) and call it LOD3 (not LOD03, LOD003 etc...) Then copy this box twice renaming the copies LOD4 and LOD5. Now head over to the Preview rollout and hit the big preview button. Post whatever comes up for us to see.

I also have a question, does anyone know how I can hide the plane, but keep the reflection of it? otherwise I'll have to Photoshop the plane out. Thanks!

To hide the ground plane so it doesn't appear in renders, select the object > right click > object properties and under the rendering control section uncheck the Visible to Camera option. If the options are greyed out, click the By Layer button first.

Luckily this option doesn't stop an object from appearing in reflections, so you'll still see the ground plane reflected in your tower windows.

[RQTect777 11]

Cockatoo you're the best!! You give such thorough information!! I fixed the shadows and rendered/previewed in the right LODs. I also hid the plane!!

Sniper296, I will change the reflections to buildings instead, I was making sure the reflection bump worked. I added a road reflection, I don't know if I'm going to keep that

but let me here your opinion.

Here's the North and West side of the tower.

[harishna 847]

For this kind of building the grown plane is really important the key is to give the impression that there is something that is being reflected without being able to exactly tell what. So avoid roads and I will say change the texture. Have you visited JasonCW Bat thread? He has a wicked tutorial on how to archive realistic reflective glass effect.

LODs, scene illumination, cameras, ground plane, previews are all taken care by BAT4MAX make sure to check all its options.

  Edited January 18, 2012 by harishna  

[Cockatoo 2,257]

Looking good! Well done fixing those shadows and getting together a couple of correct preview renders.

I actually quite like the glass the way it is now. It's already distorted to the point where you can't tell what you're looking at, yet it retains enough detail and visual interest to pull off the illusion. I'd agree that the road doesn't need to be there though.

Have you visited JasonCW Bat thread? He has a wicked tutorial on how to archive realistic reflective glass effect.

It's his first building in BAT4Max... let's not totally confuse the hell out of him.

[gutterclub 2,729]

Yes, but it's not too confusing and all part of the learning process. The tutorials are there to help and get you on a good progression path.

The glass does look ok and for a first BAT this is excellent, but if it is possible to make it as good as can be then why settle? It does a little cartoony and too bluey which could be resolved with a darker ground plane and some bump maps and noise.

Anyway, great work so far and keep it up

[T Wrecks 10,210]

I'm with gutterclub here - reading the tutorial cannot hurt, I guess. If he thinks "whoa, that's beyond my grasp so far" , he can still continue like before.

In any case, I must echo what Cockatoo said: You're making enormous progress in a very short time! It's really fun to follow this thread, and if you continue like this, it doesn't need a crystal ball to see that you will probably release quite an impressive first BAT.

I guess the most difficult part will be playing with textures/material settings.

[RQTect777 11]

Thanks everyone!! I'm taking off the road and yes I've been looking at and following JasonCW's tutorials.

I just need to gain more experience with the different tools.

I'll try to switch the reflection texture without making it look bad and also make it not as blue.

Gutterclub: Can you tell me what I should do different to make it look less cartoonish? Unless that's what you meant

by a darker ground plane. I'll be back with more pics later

[gutterclub 2,729]

I think just the blueness and without a bump map for each pane of glass it looks a little flat. Now don't get me wrong, for a first BAT its fantastic and I am far from an expert on the matter..but I think your building should be shooting for something a little like the below. I wouldn't expect the same results, I doubt I could get the same results (I'm hoping Cockatoo will share how he creates his glass material as I feel its a little different to Jasons?) but I think try and go for the same look. I would make the glass material a little bluer and the ground pane a normal city scape colour of blacks, greys with splashes of coolour...that said you have to remember that glass itself does not have any colour.

I would read through Cockatoos, Simfoxes, and PVM HKBAT thread, there are lots of discussions of glass in there. This said, it would be a good bat as it is like Cockatoo said, you def on the right track

[Cockatoo 2,257]

I'm hoping Cockatoo will share how he creates his glass material as I feel its a little different to Jasons?

Well that glass is just an architectural material (thin glass template) with a gradient image in the diffuse slot, reflectivity and glossiness set to the max, transparency to nothing and one gigantic bump map for the entire tower (I could get away with doing that in this situation because the irregular geometry did a good job of breaking up the reflections by itself, illuminating the need for a bump map on each individual pane).

I used a Google Earth screenshot for the ground plane and manually adjusted the IOR value to get the reflections to the intensity I wanted them at. It did take a lot of tweaking to get right though, especially with the bump map settings and believe it or not the colours in the diffuse map.

It's essentially the same as Jason's glass on the base level (I think), it's just that his is way more sophisticated and much more suitable for flat glass curtain walls. Mine method is actually pretty crude.

Important things to get right when making glass are the intensity of the reflections (can be controlled with reflectivity settings and IOR), their size (controlled by adjusting the mapping on the ground plane), their distortion (controlled by bump maps), their appropriateness (too sharp, too blurred, too recognisable, appropriate for SC4) and of course the actual hue, saturation and lightness of the glass itself.

[RQTect777 11]

I darkened the blueness and added a "city" reflection. I'm still working on it. Let me know what you think so far about this pic

[harishna 847]

Looks better a bit dark in my own opinion, you still going to have to play with that ground plane a bit...

[T Wrecks 10,210]

It's a step in the right direction, but for this technique to yield convincing results, you need the right ground plane pattern and the right bump map on the windows. The idea is that the final result should convey the slightly bumpy glass surface (and the divisions between individual glass panes, i.e. the reflection shouldn't carry over seamlessly from one glass pane to the adjacent ones) and the illusion of some undefined, busy surroundings.

In this case, I think your ground plane image is just not cluttered enough. There's a pretty clear and defined reflection in the upper left area, and apart from that there's next to nothing going on on the front side. On the right side, you have some reflections that appear to be repetitive.

Another interesting aspect we found out when cockatoo's Comalco building was nearing completion is that the black window lattice made the building look somewhat cartoonish. It might be worth a thought to make the window lattice a tad thinner (if possible) and give it a dark greyish colour with low saturation instead of that entirely and fully saturated black colour.

From a lot creator's point of view, I might add that I advise against using a BATted base unless it covers the entire lot. Due to deviations in the way shadows are handled on the rendered BAT and in game, it can be very hard to integrate a building with its own base into a textured lot in a halfways satisfying way. It's a bit like sleeping with too short a blanket: If it's just about right on one side, it won't do on the other. If that happens with a BAT, it will always look like something slapped loosely onto a flat surface (which it technically is), but it won't look like something that is really "tied" to the ground.

[art128 4,622]

You're in the right direction, man!

[RQTect777 11]

I'm done messing with the glass, I have spent too many hours trying to get the right bump, reflection textures, color, ect...

I will fix the ground plane and work more on the roof. Here's the final glass result.

Gutterclub: Cockatoo had an advantage on the Comalco by the windows already curving, I have a solid flat wall.

(North and west side)

  Edited January 23, 2012 by RQTect777  

[harishna 847]

Looks WAY better, the bump may be a bit too strong, but it is much better, if you ask me I would go for something darker in color as well. Much much better nonetheless. Just take your time learning takes time and you doing great progress in very little time!

[gutterclub 2,729]

Yep, does look better and you are progressing excellently. I agree with Harishna, maybe a little darker, less bump strength and if you haven't, add noise in the bump map slot as well with about size 8.

I think you may be trying to get your glass colour from the ground pane rather than the glass, try and darker ground pane with lots going on so it gives your reflection more life.

That said, its good as is and it won't be long before you are matching the great Scotty

[RQTect777 11]

Thanks guys!!

Harishna: I'll try lowering the bump a bit and darkening the color.

Gutterclub: I'll use noise and see if it looks any better, I get my color from the ground plane and the glass color, I kept changing the glass color

until it looked right. I'm just going to leave the reflection as is.

[art128 4,622]

I can't believe you achieved in some days what I'm trying since months....