XDS Team BAT Thread

[XDS Team 1]

Hello everybody,

Since XDesign_Team left Simtropolis, there were many changes in our life and in games that been released (Cities XL). It was time to grow, time to work for some corporations, time to learn some on university...

But, sometimes memories are flashing back - and sometimes we can't forget things we made. One year ago we tried to get back again, but some terrible things happen to us, so we couldn't be back as we promised then.

Two months ago Blackscrew - formerly Phoenix - an original member of XDesign_Team has started playing SC4 again, and found some DVD disks with all this 10GB stuff. Also found a CD with 3D models for BAT - unfortunately with highly damaged data layers. So, XDS is back until the team members will get a real job.

XDS Team is starting a new BAT thread, because XDS is not definitely continuation of XDesign_Team works. It's like comparing Windows XP (XDesign) and Windows 7 (XDS) to each other.

Here's why:

- We are discontinuing making World Financial Center complex since Blackscrew has tried to recover damaged files from him CD; there are no backups, and making it again to fit on the old one's would be terrifying hard.

- The team is looking for the LOT tweaker and somebody who can do things in iLive software (Blackscrew can't, he don't remeber those things). Just contact XDS by PM.

- We are going to recreate over 50 Polish skyscrapers and mid-rises (residential, commercial and commercial service), mainly form Warsaw, Wrocław, Katowice, Sczecin, Poznań, Łódź and Gdańsk. And we are not going to make personal requests.

Thank you for over 100k downloads of our content since 2005.

Also thanks for TWrecks, bixel, AndreasRoth, illtonkso, Glenni for support and suggestions.

In advace, we would like to show you the first project, it's a mid-rise in downtown of Warsaw, JM Tower (the black one), 92m high CO$ tower:

The BAT shoots will be posted soon. Stay tuned.

Blackscrew,

XDS Team

  Edited December 14, 2011 by XDS Team  

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

First of all I'm really glad to See the team back again. I don't know if it is just me but the night lights weren't working. Why do you only wanna bat polish buildings.

Looking forward this.

[XDS Team 1]

It's easier to get the blueprints and floorplans. Also, Poland has some breathtaking realisations like Złota 44 in Warsaw by Daniel Libeskind:

Currently under construction, developed by Orco Property - 192m high:

Cosmopolitan Twarda 2/4 by Helmut Jahn developed by Hines, also under construction - 160m high:

Chmielna Development Tower, construction starts in late 2012, by Frank Gehry & Associates, developed by Kulczyk - Silverstein Properties Holding - 280m high:

Rondo 1 by SOM, developed in 2006, 159m high:

UBS Tower, planned, developer: UBS Real Estate, design by Schmidt Hammer Lassen, construction starts in early 2013; 188m high:

and many more, like this:

and finally:

That's why we want to made polish buildings only.

  Edited December 12, 2011 by XDS Team  

[gutterclub 2,729]

Will you be working in Gmax or 3DS MAX? Looking forward to seeing some actual progress shots of the BAT

[XDS Team 1]

Gmax.

All previous stuff were made with Gmax, and JM Tower will be quality better than latest 3WFC.

Also I know about advanced BAT4MAX functions like HD render, and advanced nightlighting, but I had no license for 3DS.

And I don't want to be a pirate.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

You don't have to be. It's enough to be a student. You said "...some on university" - this sounds like at least some of you could be eligible for a 100% legal free student's copy of 3dsmax - more info here. I might add that the biggest asset is probably not HD rendering, but superior (SD) renderers, better performance, more functions, and - not least! - considerably fewer bugs than with gmax.

This being said, I'm glad to see you back! There have been some phenomenal BATs from Poland recently, the community is really impressive. However, most of the work has been focused on W2W buildings and pre-fab blocks from the socialist area. It cannot hurt to get Poland on the BAT map as home of many interesting, modern highrise projects, too!

[XDS Team 1]

I'm afraid the model is too massive...

[nathanthemayor 1,263]

One suggestion I do have is to get a image-hosting account and upload your photos there. Other than that, good luck with your project!

[XDS Team 1]

OK, so I started working on the model again, in the proper scale.

I exported the model into game then I realized that the buiding sizedoesn't fit to the gmae standards. In gmax, the model is 1:1 replica, unfortunately comparing building to the Maxis buildings it's too small ;(

Unfortunately, comapring to other towers JM Ttower didn't fit, but comapring to the bixel's tower on the last photo (left side) seemed to be good; anyway I scaled model to 140% of original size and then re-rendered, and it looks like fits better:

Comparing to 27 storey Keybank it looks good, but overall scaled version will get 4x4 LOT in game...

But still, the question is to scale it or to leave it after all...

How do you think?

[gutterclub 2,729]

If you have modelled it to RL dimensions, just scale up along the Z axis 133% and it should look right. I would try and work on the night lights a bit, I know GMAX is limited but there are some good methods to get decent more realistic results

I would still look into someone getting a copy of Max through a student license.

[XDS Team 1]

Don't worry about nighteffects, that were a draft render, ne will be improved at the final phase of designing.

Hah, I'm getting a problem with nightmaps in gmax haha, when decreased intensity of selected window to, for example 0,7, and global intensity of nighteffects set to, fopr example, 0,9 the night windows doesn't appear in the night view mode.

gMax-Max: 0:1

EDIT: Moving to 3DS MAX 2012 Design

  Edited December 14, 2011 by XDS Team  

[T Wrecks 10,210]

EDIT: Moving to 3DS MAX 2012 Design

Yeah!

[XDS Team 1]

Asking in advance: what kind of problems may I expect using Bat4Max 5 with 3DS MAX Design 2012?

Does the renders getting faster? >Is there any possibilyty to export gmax file into max? I've readed some threads here, but the conversion software tool is no longer available

And also: this is the list of buildings we are planning to release, of course they'll be released in listed order:

1. Bulit

2. Under Construction

3. U/C Preparation status

3. Approved

4. Proposed

(expect Palace of Culture and Science, this one is done entirely in 90% by non-XDS polish BATTer mrqs):

EDIT: scaled 133% up fits as I expected:

  Edited December 14, 2011 by XDS Team  

[Cockatoo 2,257]

Glad to hear that you'll be making the switch to Max. Your current stuff is nice, but very old school. Max will help you bring your BAT's into the 2011 era.

With the 2012 edition of Max, you need to be sure to get Hotfix 1 before you export anything. This is very important, your exports won't work without it. SimFox details this in a post in the BAT4Max thread pinned at the top of this forum. Otherwise, just be sure you read the instructions carefully and understand everything before jumping in. Again, everything you need to know about BAT4Max is in that sticky thread.

Lighting, rendering and export processes in Max are quite different to Gmax, but they're still relatively straight forward and you'll soon get the hang of them. Max also has many new features and goodies that you'll want to learn about and incorporate into your BAT's. We're here to help with that.

Max can take advantage of newer systems MUCH MUCH more efficiently than the almost decade old Gmax can, so yes, if your computer is from the last 5 years especially, you'll probably notice a big difference in render times. (If you have a 64-bit OS with 4GB of Ram or more, be sure you’re getting 64-bit Max to make the absolute most of your system.) Having said that, the ways in which Gmax and Max render are very different. Gmax uses a form of Scanline (I believe) while in Max you'll be using Mental Ray... Scanline is still present but all BAT rendering these days is done with MR. You'll be able to (and will be tempted to) use many more polygons and render intensive materials / settings with Max though, and you soon may find that a renders in Max are taking just as long as they did in Gmax!

Unfortunately there's no one 'good' way to get geometry from Gmax to Max. There are processes that take stuff through 3rd party programs, but the end result is never perfect and usually not worth the effort. Given that your BAT is still in a relatively simple state, I'd just re-create it in Max from scratch. If it were me, I'd have Gmax open in one window, Max in another, and just do my best to copy it.

[Jasoncw 11,940]

Yeah, it didn't seem to take you long to make it, so I'd just remodel it from scratch.

I think probably the most helpful advice about max is that it's one of the most common 3d programs in the world, so there's just tons and tons of information about it online. So go out there and learn about the program.

BAT4Max already automatically sets up the lighting and the rendering, so the main things left to learn are modeling and materials. In max the tools for polygon modeling are super improved over gmax's. It's a lot more direct and straightforward and versatile, so you should be poly modeling most objects. "Materials" didn't really exist in any meaningful way in gmax. You only had the "Standard" material type, which you put your bitmap into, and that was all there was to do (and also some really crude opacity). Even some of the features of the Standard material type, like bump maps, don't actually work in gmax. In max there are a bunch of different material and map types which are really useful, and the materials themselves represent actual physical characteristics, so your glass actually behaves like glass and your stone actually behaves like stone, etc. The material type you should use (unless there's a particular reason another material type would be better in a situation) is the Arch & Design material, and you should go read all about this.

So yeah, learn about modeling (google polygon modeling), and learn about materials (google arch & design material).

[XDS Team 1]

Cockatoo and Jasoncw: thank you for your help!

I will simply redo the base model of JM Tower in 3DS, then I will start to work immediately on the rest of model.

I need to check how to make bumps/reflections on the glass, and multimaterials, I've used 3DS max 8 4 years ago, so I think it'll be fast to redo the model and export it.

I noticed on your models (both Cockatoo and Jasoncw) there's no longer vertical gradient textures in max models on materials or I missed something?

Original BAT always added gentle gradienting on elevations

So the steps of rendering in 3DBAT4MAX are very simple, I've readed the topics about that, and it's a great stuff to learn how it works

  Edited December 16, 2011 by XDS Team