Realism Project / Mod Development

[A Killer Ewok 2]

THANK YOU FOR YOUR APPLICATION!!! I HAIL YOU.

 

Well, you can take over the map project, but you'll have to make it Simcity 4 friendly. I have a way of doing it, but you'll have to email me for instructions and stuff. You can also check out the Omnibus for instructions, but if you email me for it, I'll give you clear instructions on how to make it Simcity 4 friendly. Thanks again. You made my frustrations go away.

 

Okay, for the map, I don't think Bowen Island is necessary since it's not part of the GVRD and the only way to get there is by ferry, which is really annoying and I couldn't find the exempler to change the speed of ferries in the Reader. We don't need MOST of the mountains. I believe we'll need to include Abbotsford, Chilliwack, and maybe even Kent, but certainly NOT Hope, because I don't feel it's necessary. Anyways, You can direct to my Vancouver map for limits on the west and north, plus we'll need to scale the thing so that one pixel equals either a normal LOT or 16 METRES. It's really hard to scale off a computer, and we all use different resolutions on our desktops. Anyways, just ask me for my email and I'll send you instructions.

 

I really hope this thing can fire away at about time school starts (3 weeks). Good luck!

[dudyconstructor 40]

thats sounds incredible. but it sounds hard though. i think that would inprove SC4 realism

[Motina 77]

Ok, so I will have to add some more to the eastern part of the map. Chilliwack is cut off, and Kent is obviously off. However with what I have so far, I have lightened up the grey scale, but from there, someone will have to scale it appropiately, I just have it roughly done, which turns out to be smaller than your current map on the MEX. Also, I do not think that my computer can handle the map generation. Some of the bigger maps I have tried only get half done, and when I tried to generate what I have of Vancouver it did not even go (The config is 84x40, and the greyscale is 5378x2561). Wrong format maybe??

 

[the7trumpets 10]

Well, what can I say. You guys have encouraged me to pick this back up...again

I've got all the GeoBase Dems that we'll need in the forseable future, the beauty of all this is that if we ever need to expand more, we can simply extend it.

So far I have a fairly large area downloaded, but I'm stuck on determining the absolute best way to import it. If we want to be able to represent pikes peak (like we'll ever get all the way down there...), we would need to be able to represent up to about 4,300 meters. Currently, we can only represent up to about 3,418 meters. I have been able to make the terrain higher than that, by fudging with some numbers in the exemplars, but I haven't been able to allow the camera to scroll up enough to see the extremely high terrain.

There's also a fairly large discrepancy between maxis' numbers in the exemplars concerning terrain altitude, and my calculated numbers assuming a certain type of projection, which maxis claimed they were using. Ultimately, as long as it looks right, it is right. I'm just not totally sure what looks right

Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted, but I've got the entire map now (about 1/6 of British Columbia), I'm just working on creating the best way to import it, or part of it, and then I'll post it on the MEX and describe how we'll go about this project. The ultimate goal is for it to be very modular so that people can phase in and out of the project when they need to, but eventually we'll have enough people who have worked on it to complete it.

[the7trumpets 10]

Okay, I think I've got most of this figured out, but right now I'm trying to figure out how to best handle the curvature of the earth.

It probably doesn't matter all that much, but there is a possibility that we will spill over into the US, so our city borders have to line up with paralell lines somewhere.

Because of that I'm considering defining this maps projection as a latitude/longitude projection, where the further to the south we get, the more compact the data is, and the more to the north we get, the more spread out it is. Think of it like the map projections which have greenland almost as large as australia.

I think I'll do it this way since chances are we won't expand enough to see a huge difference in scale, and its the only way to guarantee that our cities will line up if we want to expand further to the south in the future. I just wanted to throw it out there so if there are any objections, they can be heard now.

[Motina 77]

I don't think the curvature of the earth is a concern, when handling satellite imagery. I think they already compensate for that. Plus, a satellite does not handle the information the same as a map. Sticking with the data on a map, maps have various methods of making the earth flat. You have the one that stretches, while another one cuts up the globe like and orange peal, resulting in less stretching.

 

If this does somehow appears, I guess it should be taken, but how would this be done accurately?

[the7trumpets 10]

Basically there is an even number of sattelite data points between each longitude and latitude line.

If you look at the data, for large areas (like the globe) the USGS quotes the accuracy in arc seconds. What that means is how many arcs (or lines of data) are produced per second (degrees:minutes.seconds) of a latitude or longitude line. Most of the data I'm using is 1/3 arc-second (the best data I could find).

Like I said, I'll just do it as close as possible and live with the very slight effects if we ever stretch down into Oregon.

[A Killer Ewok 2]

For this beginning stage, I suggest we first come up with a way to scale the maps accurately. I'm only in grade 9, so I have absolutely NO IDEA what arc seconds and the degree:minute:seconds thing on my calculater is. I'll leave you guys to it.

The only absolute rule about the scaling is that every pixel on the greyscale must equal to something, like a LOT or 16 METERS, as I've mentioned above, and as far as the elevation is concerned, we must somehow get some of the mountains that are above 619 meters to import properly into the game.

As for the Earth being a sphere, I believe that the dems have been taken from an overhead satelite, meaning that if you piece them together, they form a flat earth. I don't know about the USGS data, because I never used that before.

And as for the extension of the data, we'll need to get a config file that can be extended to all directions if we ever need to expand to the south or north or include Victoria or anything like that. For the first import, a nice 30~ x 30~ km will do.

Then if we need to expand, a mapmaker will scale it, set a config file and import that, then put the undeveloped cities onto a ftp server or something along with the config puzzle piece and modelers can just put the config into the original config file and import the cities one by one!

That's all I have to say. I'm sure you guys understand more than I do, and I'm sure I'm being the pretty annoying simpleton right now.

[edgartamch 1]

I think Hong Kong would work!!

[edgartamch 1]

I think Hong Kong would work!!

[A Killer Ewok 2]

READ THE WHOLE DAMN THREAD PLEASE... Then you would know...

 

And don't double post.

 

And with this reaction, I can't even welcome you to Simtropolis...

 

[Motina 77]

Ok, i'll give the map out now. My computer cannot load up the whole entire map though. Here is a picture:

 

The land is bumpy, so I guess teraforming will have to be done in some areas.

 

I will be putting this up on the MEX.

[A Killer Ewok 2]

I think the problem is that you did something while it was terraforming. That happened to me once when I was uploading a custom map. Some of the cities were blank, but when I go into them, they were there. It also looks amazing. Those are all 2 km x 2 km cities, right?

[Motina 77]

They are 4x4 cities. As for the blank maps.. I think the screen saver did that. I'll turn it off and try again.

[A Killer Ewok 2]

I find doing 2x2 cities are a lot less laggier than 4x4 cities. Just to let you know.

[SODATWIN 7]

Date: 5/21/2004 4:54:59 PM
Author: ardecila
New Orleans, LA or St. Louis, MO gets my vote.


Southern cities work well, since most have newer construction, a variety of wealth levels, and would fit within the bounds of a region.

quote>

i wanna see St.Louis done also..... including the illinois suburbs

[A Killer Ewok 2]

I am evil:

 

-I cannot welcome you to Simtropolis.

-That post you quoted was over four months ago.

-Please read the whole thread. At least look at the date of each post.

-You are out of order. You broke a chain of connversation.

-We are doing Vancouver. Again, please read the whole thread.

-It's only six pages!!! Easy!!!

-Etcetera. We are NOT doing St.Louis for a LONG time.

 

  

[Sticksboi04 0]

I think Washington D.C. would've been a good choice depending on how far you meant by outside the region to come to work. Has a great Metro system and bus system. Lots of tourism and sites and a very cool city IMO.

[A Killer Ewok 2]

read the above please.

[b007 0]

I would also like to see Bost..jk Is this project gonna go anywhere?

[A Killer Ewok 2]

We need someone to organize this. I'm not. I'm busy with life. Anyways, the7trumpets said something about using Simcityscape and wasting their server space. We need one guy to have the whole map and import the cities that are completed. We need a central source of maps to rely upon, and a heck lot of other stuff. I'll build.

[CitiSweeper 5]

After hour and a half of reading and skimming this thread, I wrote this up. It should be useful to help some new subscribers to catch up and attract some workforces if t7t could concatenate his post at the first page with this. Anyway to some extent, I guess I possibly misinterpret something here so you need to edit them first

-- A SUMMARY ON IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENTS IN THIS PROJECT -- PLEASE READ --

1. t7t had come up with the idea of building an ultra realistic region with intention to yield the realistic MOD for SC4 from this region-growing process. This MOD will make the region grow, run along in the game and yet possible to present most aspects and figures of the real-world such as populations, jobs, transportation network etc. (page 1)

2. Several members had nominated several cities and there were several well-thought comments being made and analyzed. Finally, there's the vote and the winner was Vancouver. (page 1-4)

3. On 7/10/2004, A Killer Ewok proposed that he had a lot of DEMs of Vancouver and he's willing to share. (page 5)

4. On 7/19/2004, DonD13 proposed a draft plan on this project. (page 5)

5. There're some discussions about the map. (page 5)

6. On 8/6/2004, Motina posted his Vancouver grayscale map. (page 5) And There're some continuous discussions about map scaling (page 6). He put his map to the MEX on 8/31/2004. (page 6)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Personally, I wish to see this project carry along to the end. I can contribute to some level like city building and few BATs. And hey Ewok, a little bit about organizer, I think I have time to do this. But my reputation and SC4 experience here is obviously far from solid enough. t7t, anyway is the best person but he just doesn't have enough time....

[xiziz 11]

Weiii, am really happy this is moving again, we seem to go in periods, far apart...
We do need someone to take charge, as i stated preveousley(cant remember page) i lack the time and leadership to lead such a giagantic project.

Just thought id horray the new information and let everyone know that im still on

Cheers

[Motina 77]

I would like to get this thing going to; I really do not have the time since I am a student of architecture. There are many people who have downloaded the map. I just wish we could get somebody building with the accuracy needed as done by The Jersey Devil with the city of Edmonton. The thing is, I do not think it will get far without the organization from one of the main posters of Simtropolis.

 

I would like to know how many people are aware that this project does have a verily accurate map now, and that this project does needs builders and BATers. Maybe we could start a tread in 'My City Journals' and one in 'BAT - Open Discussion' threads. I would love to create some BATs, but being the perfectionist that I am, I would need actual working drawings. Without, it would take me too long to figure things out. That is the reason why I don't do BATs. You will most likely not be able to find drawings with measurements for the best accuracy, but there will be elevations and plans to help. I need measurements, that is why I will not be good at this. I have had a female dog of a time trying to find measurement for BCE Place in Toronto.

 

For the lazy ones who do not like to read, here is a summary:

 

> Set up a discussion in,

-My City Journals

-Builders who are as accurate as The Jersey Devil

-BAT - Open Discussion

-Pick the Buildings - and find any sort of elevations and plans to help create the buildings.

-BATers who contribute a lot of very accurate buildings

[A Killer Ewok 2]

Start of page 7! Finally... hehe i got used to a forum that had 24 replies per page.. then i forgot that simtropolis can have 30 per page...

 

We'll need to recruit people for the project, like superstar did with New York. Because I have school and I come here rarely now, I have no time. Sorry for the disappointment. If this project took place in the summer, I would've had lots of time.

[dudyconstructor 40]

omg that was such a nice region...and there is a mod that make things realistic a bit the RAin mod! its cool but you might be careful with that or you will flood your city

[TheJerseyDevil73 13]

Vancouver is a perfect city to do.

I would like to help, I haven't gone back threw all 6 pages but I have seen this forum a few times. Main thing is, is a common scale and refference map. Due to my nearly 100% accurate map I could be at help in any respect of this CJ if you are going for accuracy. Plus I know and love Vancouver.

PM if I can be on the TEAM.

 

[Collin 0]

I live in Surrey and would love to be able to help out.

[Motina 77]

You are free to go ahead and start laying out the cities, Jersey Devil. Also remember that I have a map on the MEX which covers much of the area to be done. You can probably check out as to how accurate I have made it. I lack the maps it check myself.

[A Killer Ewok 2]

So... anybody want to lay out the plans for using a central mapping source? ex: www.mapquest.com .

 

BTW... next post is page 7!