Realism Project / Mod Development

[psteverific 8]

My first thought was also Calgary. I've only driven through it and flown over it(never stayed), but it is a very modern city, and would look good in sc4. however, having lived in Vancouver for a bit back in the eighties, I'd love to see that happen, it is a beautiful part of the world.

[psteverific 8]

My first thought was also Calgary. I've only driven through it and flown over it(never stayed), but it is a very modern city, and would look good in sc4. however, having lived in Vancouver for a bit back in the eighties, I'd love to see that happen, it is a beautiful part of the world.


EDIT Damn! sorry 'bout that double post!

[TheJerseyDevil73 13]

This seems it will never fly. Who is heading this. 5 pages of ideas on what city. I hate to say it becuase of te Rivalry in Alberta....but I think a good city to do is Calgary. It is somewhat flat. Doensn't have a massive and hard river valley like Edmonton. Its a basic city runs North-South East-West. Is fairly modern with a basic working freeway system. Has 200 some skyscrapers I'm guessing.

 

But once you choose a city and if you'll do it accurately...there are so many problems that will arise if its a multi person project. What map what scale who does what...will it line up.....I dont know why anyone would do a city if it wasnt to scale. I know of a map for Calgary and a working easy to use scale for it. If any are interested....I can get people rolling on this project if you ever decide on a city.

Check out page 11 of my Edmonton region (link below) this is an example of how to scale a city. Also I can find the same map which the same scale should apply to Calgary.

I think this city would be your best bet.

I'll look back at this posting or PM me if anyone wants.....

Just some ideas...

[+Guest]

I don't get why people keep suggesting ideas, I mean, the poll is up.......

[brett_131 0]

calgary would be a great city.  it is flat land, and a good downtown with industry etc.

[LAWSTAR8206 0]

Just to throw it out there since i live there. What about Dayton, Oh.

[mirabella1934 2]

It may supprise you but Calagry does not sit on flat land ! I lived there from 1968 on The highest Building was Palisser Hotel ! There are hills all around and in it! And The 'Bow ' goes right tru the middle. Down town is flat yes but everything else is hilly! I got the pictures to ptoof it!!

[A Killer Ewok 2]

Why is this project dead? Why are people still nominating cities when they've already voted on it already? Why isn't my map being used? Why are the head builders busy? Where are the people who lead this thread?

These questions answered once... oh I don't know. BTW, I have a lot of DEMs of the Vancouver region on my computer. Just message me and I'll find a way to send them in for you guys.

[DonD13 0]

I am still willing to work on this project, although I don't have time to become the project leader.  I propose everyone involved who is still interested in helping reply here for a sort of 'roll-call' so we can see how many willing and able modellers we have available.  If nobody else steps up to the plate, I will take on the roll of temporary manager until someone else steps in.  I think our first action is to set in stone the results of the city poll and the run-off and declare Vancouver, BC as our first project city. 

 

List of things to be done:

 

1. Decide on exactly how much of the surrounding area to model

This will require someone who either lives in the area, or is very well acquainted with it.  What we're looking for is the boundary of where people who work in the city live (if that makes any sense) 

2. Find or create a grayscale map of the decided area. 

A Killer Ewok already has one map on the Map Exchange, so I am assuming he has the ability to modify it to cover the area we decide on. 

3. Create a config.bmp for the region that best divides up the various cities

I suggest we try to best fit various city-map sizes to the individual cities and districts in the region, e.g. downtown Vancouver could be a large, medium, or small map, or a combination of several depending on how large an area it covers.  Again, this will require a bit of help from people who know the region well, as well as various maps. 

4. Set standards for the modelling process

We need to decide on what map to base the model on, e.g. mapquest.  We also need to specify what mods and cheats are allowable, etc.  All modellers should be using maps from the same source so there are no discrepancies between models such as highway connections not lining up, etc. 

5. Divide up work amongst the modelers

This will involve each modeler taking on several city-maps to model.  I suggest we start by having one person establish the major transportation routes like highways and rails in the entire region.  This would prevent major problems like one modeller's city-map having everything shifted one tile north, which would require complete re-modelling. 

6. Analyze the results and create mods to make the model behave more like the real city

This is obviously rather simplified because we are so far from this step.  This process will likely take a LONG time unless we get lots more help from experienced modders. 

 

This post will be updated as we make progress.  For now, please reply and let me know if you're willing to help with the project.  If anyone is interested in becomeing the project manager, let me know, as I can only guarantee my involvement here on a weekly basis at the most. 

Hope to see some replies later tonight.

Later,

Don

 

[xiziz 11]

nice to see that we are finaly getting of the ground, i was extremley happy to see the post in the recent replys.

Im still on the roster, tho i know im way to undecisive to take the roll of leading the project.

i do have some sugestions about some of the points, im writing them down now.

1. It's out first project, the area shouldnet be to big, and should be dependant on how many people we can rally before starting off, the more people, the larger area. but as it is our first try, we should'nt start overambisious.
2. Not much to be said, Hoping Killer Ewok can do the grayscales.
3. Again not much to be said, we need someone to divide the area.
4. As for mods and lots, we should minimise the ammount of mods to be used, tho i have to say that Mods like the NAM really should be used, maby with perfect/better pathfinding and the increased comute times/speeds, so we can get comuters from the suburbs to the Downtown.
5. The idea with making all Major transit first is a great idea, or anyway, just the neighbourhood connections, so all of them are alligned. I really liked your idea there.
6. This should be done part before, when we chose mods, and finalised with help of local folk / Gurus, after all modeling is finished.

We will need to write a new Roster i belive, and PM them on the Previous Roster(page 1) since quite much time has lapesed since this project was hyped!

Thats all for me and now
Cheers
Xiziz Out

[dolphin66 5]

i'm still willing to work on this project. I don't Mod or Bat but I can help with building cities and layout.

[wraith90 1]

I have extensive knowlage of the Vancouver International Airport and I can help with that. I also think that the map that Killer Ewok has made is about right.

[A Killer Ewok 2]

Glad to see after 8 days I've posted this project is up and running! I MIGHT still have the DEMs for Vancouver since they're all in my email account at this moment. The one on the MEX has too many holes and the scale is accurate ~5%. I'll need to redo the map for distribution.

 

We'll need a reliable source for making the map. I have a *cough* Rand McNally map that covers a vast area of Vancouver. TheJerseyDevil73's EDMONTON is a good source for making the cities accurate. We could also use www.mapquest.com which is also very reliable but hard to get the borders just right.

 

I have the mods that can make it work. It's attached here, and I use it for realism and relief. You guys can patch them up and use it.

 

We'll also need a computer that will import and run ALL cities, and it's not me! And we'll need to test the map for upload since I'm not willing to wait 2 hours to see my map filled with holes (see my maps below).

 

We'll also need BATters to build the buildings we want for our downtown. Right now, I have gmax but I don't have the tutorials to start training myself. I'm sure some BATters are willing to build some Vancouver buildings.

 

We'll also need zoning and satelite maps of Vancouver. If you search for Vancouver in the forums, and click onto my city journal, there's a link that will link to a zoning map of Vancouver (not reliable for downtown, though, so I was bummed out, but you'll find out). I don't know where to get satelite maps. They're really helpful for seeing if you've missed anything and stuff.

 

I myself live in Richmond, so I'm willing to do that area and do most of the western part of the city. We'll have to agree on a zoning method, because you'll see where I screw up in my city journal that forced me to abandon it. Sad, really, but it was too laggy! And I didn't get the effect I wanted. Some City-Concept threads will help.

 

Phew, now that that's over, I nominate myself to be a leader of the project! Cheers!

[A Killer Ewok 2]

just saying that...

 

1. We'll need a new thread to cover all of this (in the same forum, of course, and we'll also need a city journal type thread, too).

2. www.geobase.ca - EVERYTHING you need, including map data, street networks, etc.. But I'm doing the map, so don't bother downloading that.

 

and I have no idea why I'm not editing the previous thread. maybe it's different from that... but in any case, I hope this project keeps alive until we get simcity 5!

[DonD13 0]

Great!  Glad to see someone willing to take on the leadership role, as my work schedule is very unpredictable and I sometimes work over 70 hours in a week, almost always 6 days and sometimes 7 days a week.  This week I have a bit of free time, but in the future I may only be able to check this forum once a week or so. 

 

I hereby volunteer my computer to run the city as a whole as my system is very stable with SC4 and runs almost perfectly, with only a little lag with 500k sims living in a large map (almost 2M sims in the region) 

 

I will also model several ciy-maps once you have divided them up. 

 

I will edit this post or post again later tonite, but I have to run an errand for a minute

[A Killer Ewok 2]

I'm going to make a new thread in another forum so that people can see this project. It's going to be called a SignUp and Information Thread, but I need votes to where I should place this where people can see it but the moderators won't move it. I'll be copying information from this thread into that thread, and hopefully people will sign up and take part of something we can do together.

 

Right now I'm having troubles scaling the map in MICRODEM, and it really pisses me off because when I Recenter -> Set Scale, I have no idea what area the DEM is covering, so I have no idea what to put in the boxes marked Map width/height. I have to get it just right, and I need to copy and paste the WHOLE thing, but it just doesn't cover the whole map in one screen!!!

[the7trumpets 10]

Sorry I've been away for so long, yes, real life has been busy once again.

Now, about the DEMs, etc.

First of all, Killer Ewok, thanks for doing so much and keeping this alive. I have a question though, are your maps based on USGS DEM data or DEM data from another source? If it's from another source, is its accuracy better than about 70-90m? The only data USGS had available was SRTM 90m data, which will work, but if you know of a more accurate source, I'm all ears. The reason I ask is that the 1:50,000 scale quoted at geobase sounds like it's about a 10-15m accuracy, but I'm not sure. I also don't know if that data will import into microdem.

Secondly, once we have a source, my concept was to try to download the data bounded by latitude and longitude lines. This not only makes it easy to expand our region of we want to gradually work southward in the long term, but it makes it ultra easy to define latitude and longitude boundries of each city square, and use that to look up an exact sattelite image of the city you are working on.

So Ewok, please forgive my absence and help enlighten us on the best source for DEM data which we can hopefully identify longitude and latitude marks.



okay, before I posted this message, I downloaded the Geobase data and compared it to the USGS data. It looks like the 1:50,000 data is about twice as accurate as the SRTM 90m data, and being a complete DEM, it includes the lat/long data in the DEM. However, it would be seamless to extend into the US if we used SRTM 90m USGS data, and using the GeoBase data I don't know if that's possible. At this point, that shouldn't be a huge concern however, since I think the border between the US and Canada is a lattitude line anyhow.

As far as how large of an area we should build, I think for simplicity we should decide on latitude and longitude lines to be bound by (as stated earlier), and make it a rectangular area. It should be relatively easy to expand on if we want to in the future. It doesn't matter too much how large of an area the map covers, as long as its big enough. My suggestion would be a region including Canada north of the US up to about 56 or 57 degrees N, and from about 120W to 125W. The microdem program does have some limitations on the size of DEMs it can merge, so you might have to merge it into two DEM regions, and then glue the resulting TIF files together in an image editor. As soon as we have completed enough of the city, we'll move on to the testing stage. So Ewok, if you want to download the 1:50,000 scale data from GeoBase and glue them all together for an area as large as you think we'd use, that would be great. For those of you concerned about loading such a large map in your computer, the only lag is when loading the region, there is ZERO performance difference when actually creating or running a city whether it be a tiny or huge region.

How do we determine who does what city square?

Create a fairly large map area and divide it up into city plots. For simplicity I suggest we make all of them the same sized cities, either medium or large. Anyone who wants to work on a city can do just that. They will post a notice of intent here, go create thier city, and once they're done, they can upload it to simcityscape (we'll use thier server throughput). They'll post an announcement here, and anyone who wants to can go download it. In order to keep things simple, you will only be able to work on city plots which have no cities in progres on thier borders. This way, you can download the cities already completed which border your city and ensure everything lines up.

This may sound a bit complex, but I think it's the best way to do it. It requires zero oversight, so even if some of us get busy, others can continue to contribute to the project. If this sounds good to everyone, let me know and I'll type up more specific instructions that are more clear.

[A Killer Ewok 2]

Right now I'm having problems with my DEMs.

 

When I first downloaded them 8 months ago, they were fine and I was able to make the map of Vancouver you see in my signature today. But when I downloaded them several days ago, they seemed to be missing a lot of data.

 

For one, the DEM of Richmond goes to 4915 degrees, but cuts off half of the island with the airport. Then when I go to the corresponding map starting from 4915, it cuts off in the middle of Vancouver! That means that a whole chunk of map data just dissappeared (specifically everything south of 25th avenue and everything north of Alderbridge Way with the Fraser River in between)!

 

And the corresponding map to the west of the Richmond map was suppose to cover the ocean and part of the Iona Island park, but when I loaded it, it's blank!

 

Please help me on this. I used to do such a good job on these maps, but to see them betray me like this just brings me down. Download here at www.geobase.ca  . I'm also using MICRODEM v6.0x, because the main website was down.

 

Thanks!

 

posting this in the map making forum too...

[U_W 0]

I know this is kind of like a random city but i would have to say Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada and here are the rasons why:
-It's population is pretty decent to fit in a city in SimCity (pop. 359, 183)
-Besides the traveling in a train, plane or ship it's pretty much isolated.
-It is a major Port City for Canada in the East Coast, providing it as an industrial center.
-It has an attractive setting.
-It has a historic role in the developement of Canada.
-It has elements of Boston and San Fransisco.
-It's buildings are modoern, preserved and historic (Boston Type).
-It is fairly crowded and is not really stretching out.
-It's population depends alot on railways for the economic growth.
-Easier to create.
*Never lived or been there, just think it qualifies for your needs.

[DonD13 0]

PLEASE read all of the thread, or at the very least the last page before replying.  If you had, you would know that we have already voted on a city (Vancouver)  and we aren't taking any more city suggestions. 

 

Thanks,

Don

 

[U_W 0]

oops, sorry. i was just reading the first page and got carried away, really sorry.

[DonD13 0]

Date:7/24/2004 2:00:31 PM
Author:U_W

oops, sorry. i was just reading the first page and got carried away, really sorry.

quote>

 

No worries   Didn't mean to sound harsh or discouraging.  We've just had alot of people pop in and post without really knowing whats going on.  We can always use more help though if you are interested in working with us. 

 

Thanks,

Don

 

 

[U_W 0]

Date: 7/24/2004 5:31:31 PM
Author:

Date:7/24/2004 2:00:31 PM
Author:U_W

oops, sorry. i was just reading the first page and got carried away, really sorry.

quote>

No worries Didn't mean to sound harsh or discouraging. We've just had alot of people pop in and post without really knowing whats going on. We can always use more help though if you are interested in working with us.

Thanks,

Don

quote>

Yeah I'd love to help, jus wondering if i could do a small town (Leesburg) instead of a large city cuz i find it easier. But if u wan me to do a big city then sorry, no luck here

[daveybean 0]

Hi, just new here and pretty new to SC4. I am really excited about this project as I've been trying to re-create Vancouver myself using the GVRD map. I live in downtown Vancouver by Stanley Park and would be willing to help out in any way I can.

Dave

[DonD13 0]

Any updates on the map yet?  I'd love to get started while my work schedule is only SLIGHTLY crazy.  I've been putting off playing SC4 for awhile in hopes of starting on this project and keeping focused on it for a long time.  Keep me posted.

 

Later,

Don

 

 

[A Killer Ewok 2]

Well, no one's helping me in the map making forum, and I bet it's still on the first page. I really need that missing data to start it, and I still don't have it. I need it to start making the map, or else we will have to resort to my map on the MEX.

 

That's all the updates .

[Motina 77]

I am unsure how far Ewok is with the problems of him having missing data.

Ok, I started to piece together the Vancouver Map myself. However, since I do not really know how far the area extends I will not be able to finish it yet. I have from North Vancouver to the Canada/US boarder then as far east to the west edge of Chilliwack. However with the problem of the locations of lakes and any water was problem. Showing the lakes makes some of that maps messed up, so some of the lakes are missing, plus the ones at higher elevations (we should probably make lots for those, because it would look weird for them to be at sea level).

[Motina 77]

Here is the map. Again all lakes are not shown because they are at higher sea level.

 

[GaryGerbrandt 6]

Good work, motina! Maybe we could use teirusu's rain mod to create the aboveground laknes.

 

      ~bob

[iMacWin95 0]

Date:7/22/2004 12:19:54 PM
Author:the7trumpets

 I think the border between the US and Canada is a lattitude line anyhow.

quote>

And you are correct - everything west of Minnesota is the 49th Parallel.