Deadly Riots Rock London

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Jamesrules90 133]

Too be honest I think making prisoners do unpaid labour won't cause much of a problem in the EU and using them as minesweepers in the army can be safely kept unbroadcasted.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I would be surprised if incarceration is the only option for the courts. Restitution must still be there, so why not use it? Don't incarcerate these fools, all they will learn there is how to be better criminals. Put them to work undoing the damage they have done.

Besides, incarceration is a violation of human rights in itself.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

I would be surprised if incarceration is the only option for the courts. Restitution must still be there, so why not use it? Don't incarcerate these fools, all they will learn there is how to be better criminals. Put them to work undoing the damage they have done.

Besides, incarceration is a violation of human rights in itself.

Incarceration isn't the only option, the courts can order work in the community instead of prison. However if the courts order prison then deprivation of Liberty is considered punishment enough under the European Bill of Rights, prisoners cannot be forced to work. They can choose to work for some level of payment.

Barbarossa

Society didn't put people in prison, they put themselves there by breaking the law.

I like many people don't have a problem with genuine Human Rights but the European Bill is being interpreted far too widely. Some examples

Government can't deport a foreign criminal (numerous cases). Government can't deport families of illegal immegrants. Government can't force prisoners to work. And many others...

  Edited August 24, 2011 by Merlin of Flyote  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

^ Sounds like the academic socialists got the bit in their teeth there. A criminal conviction should suspend a lot of rights, and not just loss of freedom of movement. Some of the convicted, no capital punishment being available, need to be put in an oubliette.

I still say that looters and vandals should be specifically sentenced to restitution of the damage they have caused. If not, then fined for the necessary amount to repair that damage, though I like the labour idea better.

[Meg 368]

Some of the convicted, no capital punishment being available, need to be put in an oubliette.

Call me crazy but isn't that the kind of thing a bill of rights is supposed to prevent?

I still say that looters and vandals should be specifically sentenced to restitution of the damage they have caused. If not, then fined for the necessary amount to repair that damage, though I like the labour idea better.

Restitution of damage seems more productive than punishment. The whole idea of "throw them in jail" does nothing for the people who had their property damaged. It isn't always possible for a criminal to un-do what he did but, when it comes to destruction of property, there is a lot that can be done.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Jamesrules90 133]

Too be honest if you commit a crime you are giving up your rights and should be forced to work while in prison, I think the chinese have it right with Laogai, and the Americans have it right with Prison farms and if they make organic food even better since it is better for the environment.

I am not agreeing with the Chinese way of sentencing political prisoners in inhumane conditions, what I am agreeing with is their idea of labour camps.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

Barbarossa

Society didn't put people in prison, they put themselves there by breaking the law.

Indeed, that is true and I won't dispute it. However, I don't believe in blindly following laws and I often think many laws are either unnecessary, unfair, poorly implemented, or poorly thought out. Your example of the broad application in Europe of the Human Right law is an example of poor implementation and/or poor thought (perhaps - I don't live there and don't know the nuances). Here in the States we have so many peole in prison for possession of illegal substances. Not dealing, not growing, but just having. The prison system here is now a business - often managed by private companies who support more laws and more inmates.

I certainly think that these riots were mostly advatageous looters and mob-mentality antics. But I also think many of them are angry, poor, unemployed people who are struggling to make ends meet.

Barbarossa

Some were poor and unemployed, but many had jobs. Also there were many unemployed who didn't riot so I don't see that as an excuse.

As for possession I think that should carry a prison sentance. If people didn't buy drugs there wouldn't be a market for them so there wouldn't be any drugs cartels, there would be less crime and social problems.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, this will undoubtedly cause a flap in the freedom of expression mob.

[Merlin of Flyote 8]

One month on, of those arrested so far 83% were known to police already, 75% had criminal records, 20% had links to gangs.

Metropolitan Police spent £74,000,000 to quell the riots.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

One month on, of those arrested so far 83% were known to police already, 75% had criminal records, 20% had links to gangs.

Metropolitan Police spent £74,000,000 to quell the riots.

Sounds like about the same in proportion to the Vancouver hockey riot. The Vancouver police have just released their report.

[Frdm920 50]

As for possession I think that should carry a prison sentance. If people didn't buy drugs there wouldn't be a market for them so there wouldn't be any drugs cartels, there would be less crime and social problems.

I disagree, decriminalisation (note not legalisation) would be slightly more productive. Two common reasons (in my opinion) people do drugs: 1) It's cool because it's illegal

2) They're addicted and fear going to get help because they don't want to end up in jail. Decriminalisation = No jail sentence = more people inclined to get help = less drug abuse. Just my two cents

As for the cost of the police operation, significant however I expect the clean-up costs will be much greater.

  Edited September 8, 2011 by Frdm920  

[Eʟᴇᴍᴇɴᴛ 273]

As for possession I think that should carry a prison sentance. If people didn't buy drugs there wouldn't be a market for them so there wouldn't be any drugs cartels, there would be less crime and social problems.

I disagree, decriminalisation (note not legalisation) would be slightly more productive. Two common reasons (in my opinion) people do drugs: 1) It's cool because it's illegal

2) They're addicted and fear going to get help because they don't want to end up in jail. Decriminalisation = No jail sentence = more people inclined to get help = less drug abuse. Just my two cents

As for the cost of the police operation, significant however I expect the clean-up costs will be much greater.

Well sir, I believe we can all agree on the fact that current prohibition is NOT working. That seriously needs to be changed. As for your views on decriminalization I actually agree. My belief is that perhaps we should test both ideas and see which one gives better stats. It doesn't hurt to try both right?

  Edited September 8, 2011 by Eʟᴇᴍᴇɴᴛ  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

As for possession I think that should carry a prison sentance. If people didn't buy drugs there wouldn't be a market for them so there wouldn't be any drugs cartels, there would be less crime and social problems.

I disagree, decriminalisation (note not legalisation) would be slightly more productive. Two common reasons (in my opinion) people do drugs: 1) It's cool because it's illegal

2) They're addicted and fear going to get help because they don't want to end up in jail. Decriminalisation = No jail sentence = more people inclined to get help = less drug abuse. Just my two cents

As for the cost of the police operation, significant however I expect the clean-up costs will be much greater.

Well sir, I believe we can all agree on the fact that current prohibition is NOT working. That seriously needs to be changed. As for your views on decriminalization I actually agree. My belief is that perhaps we should test both ideas and see which one gives better stats. It doesn't hurt to try both right?

Perhaps you would like to suggest a suitable protcol?