High demand + low customers = vacant buildings

[semo 14]

I'm sure this issue has already come up, but I cannot find the answer by searching. My city has about 80,000 people and medium/high commercial demand, but I have a problem with vacant buildings. I've tried all the advice I've come across but nothing is working (to the point where I wonder if it's a bug in the game). I zone commercial, and buildings develop (according to the density I've zoned for), but whenever I do a building query the number of customers always says low. I zone by landmarks, make sure the buildings are powered and watered, have low pollution, make sure there's plenty of mass transit access, zone by avenues with high traffic, have the NAM mod, build parks, enact city ordinances to promote tourism, build the commuter airport, create a city connection to another prosperous city, make sure the zone location is desirable for the wealth level I'm aiming for, have police stations nearby, good fire coverage, and make sure there are residential zones nearby (often high wealth). Nothing helps.

I have never, not even one time, queried a commercial building and had it say that the level of customers is even medium, let alone high. So the buildings become vacant due to low demand (sometimes they become vacant after first growing larger, which really confuses me). But when I bulldoze the building another, just as large building, pops up in its place. Still with few customers. I feel like half my time spent in the game is keeping up with the vacant buildings that need to be bulldozed.

Has anyone else had this problem and overcome it? I'm starting to think it's impossible to have long-standing commercial buildings, due to low customer demand. I cannot figure out where I'm going wrong, and I've been playing this game off and on for years. I'm very frustrated that I can't figure this out, and would appreciate any advice or help.

  Edited March 5, 2011 by semo  

[Lucario Boricua 7,050]

Make sure the CBD has a lot of traffic. This is due to the way "customers" are simulated on SimCity 4, being proportional to the amount of traffic passing near the buildings (the same, in the form of traffic noise, has the opposite effect on residential areas). Check your route queries and the traffic volume view (found within the traffic map view). You should have a lot of traffic near the commercial areas in order to ensure they get commercial activity. A way to do this when planning cities is to have commercial areas along roads and avenues leading to industrial zones (the drivers who pass by will boost the commercial activity). Another way to boost it is to create a heavily residential neighboring city, in order to provide commuters to boost the commercial districts in trouble.

  Edited March 6, 2011 by Dragonxander  

[Cob92 360]

Early on, you should put commercial zones along the main street so that passing commuters will provide customers to the businesses. When your city grows large enough to have a proper CBD, the CBD becomes sort of self-sustaining, as the thousands of commuters going into the city center will provide more than enough customers for the businesses there.

[RiCHBoyZ 75]

I'm sure this issue has already come up, but I cannot find the answer by searching. My city has about 80,000 people and medium/high commercial demand, but I have a problem with vacant buildings. I've tried all the advice I've come across but nothing is working (to the point where I wonder if it's a bug in the game). I zone commercial, and buildings develop (according to the density I've zoned for), but whenever I do a building query the number of customers always says low. I zone by landmarks, make sure the buildings are powered and watered, have low pollution, make sure there's plenty of mass transit access, zone by avenues with high traffic, have the NAM mod, build parks, enact city ordinances to promote tourism, build the commuter airport, create a city connection to another prosperous city, make sure the zone location is desirable for the wealth level I'm aiming for, have police stations nearby, good fire coverage, and make sure there are residential zones nearby (often high wealth). Nothing helps.

I have never, not even one time, queried a commercial building and had it say that the level of customers is even medium, let alone high. So the buildings become vacant due to low demand (sometimes they become vacant after first growing larger, which really confuses me). But when I bulldoze the building another, just as large building, pops up in its place. Still with few customers. I feel like half my time spent in the game is keeping up with the vacant buildings that need to be bulldozed.

Has anyone else had this problem and overcome it? I'm starting to think it's impossible to have long-standing commercial buildings, due to low customer demand. I cannot figure out where I'm going wrong, and I've been playing this game off and on for years. I'm very frustrated that I can't figure this out, and would appreciate any advice or help.

Hi, to solved your empty CS$,$&$$ building kinda pretty easy.... if you oredy zonning R/CS/ID individually that fine. In CS zone area you must randomly insert R$$ inside. Residential zones nearby sometimes lazy to go down town, Build R$$ & CS$$ in one zone like cross road each others. Best ratio between CS & R ($/$/$$) in one zone should be 2:1. (See picture) Other then that reason you all ready knew. TIP: If you want to target population growth just build R$$, CS$$ & HT. If you want to create real or natural environments then mix zoning should be okay.

.

  Edited March 6, 2011 by RiCHBoyZ  

[semo 14]

Thanks so much to everyone for the responses and tips. I think I must just suck at Sim City (at least in this aspect). I tried putting commercial zones in between residential and industrial zones, and it didn't seem to make a difference. Still low customers. I also tried interspersing commercial and residential. Still no luck. Even if I wasn't aiming for a particular strategy, in the years that I've been playing the game one would think I would luck up on a good configuration at least one time and get at least a medium level of customers. That way, I could see what worked in that situation and try to duplicate it. But I've queried hundreds of buildings and it always says low. I wouldn't really care that much except for the fact that it impacts my city's growth. The residential population becomes more unstable as business become vacant and need to be bulldozed.

I really wish I could upload my city and have someone with more expertise take a look at it. Tell me what I'm doing wrong.

I'll re-try the suggest you all mentioned (it could only help), but I don't hold out much hope. My track record of failure in this area is pretty solid (100% in fact). It feels like it would take a miracle (or a cheat code).

Btw, what does CBD stand for? Commercial Building Demand?

  Edited March 6, 2011 by semo  

[z1 566]

All of the above is good advice, but it's very important to know what constitutes "traffic" for the purpose of calculating customers. Specifically, only road traffic counts - that's cars, buses, trucks, and pedestrians. None of the rails (including trams) contribute at all to the calculation of traffic. So if you build a brand new subway underneath your CBD and Sims who formerly took the bus now take the subway, the game considers that traffic has decreased through the CBD, and you may see lower customer levels as a result.

If all else fails, you can also modify the Customers/Traffic Noise Coefficient directly by using the Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool, which can be found in the NAM Traffic Subsystem. Raising this number raises the amount of noise generated by a given amount of traffic.

  Edited March 6, 2011 by z1  

[semo 14]

All of the above is good advice, but it's very important to know what constitutes "traffic" for the purpose of calculating customers. Specifically, only road traffic counts - that's cars, buses, trucks, and pedestrians. None of the rails (including trams) contribute at all to the calculation of traffic. So if you build a brand new subway underneath your CBD and Sims who formerly took the bus now take the subway, the game considers that traffic has decreased through the CBD, and you may see lower customer levels as a result.

If all else fails, you can also modify the Customers/Traffic Noise Coefficient directly by using the Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool, which can be found in the NAM Traffic Subsystem. Raising this number raises the amount of noise generated by a given amount of traffic.

That's good to know about how subways decrease traffic and demand. My 80,000 sim city has no rail lines and no subway. I may try tweaking the NAM, but I'm still fairly unfamiliar with it.

[z1 566]

Btw, what does CBD stand for? Commercial Building Demand?

Central Business District.

[semo 14]

Central Business District.

Thanks! That one was stumping me.

[aparrot7 82]

Picture of the city? I could help if i were to get a screen shot, because the problem sometimes stares you in the face, as many things do in general life . I think the main problem from what i hear is the amount of trafic through your Commercial district.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I've only skimmed this thread, and this may already have been said, but the basic tutorial has the right of it. You need to force your residents to use the roads in the CBD to get to work. It works best if there are no alternate routes, and everything flows down the main drag. In that respect I'd start with an avenue (AV-4 in NWM parlance).

Later on, if you get a busy thoroughfare, build commercial on both sides.

[Zaman 0]

Has anyone else had this problem and overcome it? I'm starting to think it's impossible to have long-standing commercial buildings, due to low customer demand. I cannot figure out where I'm going wrong, and I've been playing this game off and on for years. I'm very frustrated that I can't figure this out, and would appreciate any advice or help................Semo

I am facing the same issue and have tested it in various map sizes, could be a bug but need confimation on the same.

Tried all the above suggestions but none worked, anymore bright ideas?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

As a review, run the first basic tutorial on Timbuktu, and pay close attention to what is said about commercial zones. This illuminates the basic principle of keeping heavy traffic in your business district to keep customers high.

[semo 14]

Picture of the city? I could help if i were to get a screen shot, because the problem sometimes stares you in the face, as many things do in general life . I think the main problem from what i hear is the amount of trafic through your Commercial district.

I know this reply is late, but I originally couldn't figure out how to take captures in the game (then I forgot about this thread for awhile). But below are some pics of my city (which now has 336,000 sims). I'm still having the same problem of buildings becoming vacant due to a low number of customers.

I welcome all feedback anyone has on how I've zoned the city.

[-JD- 41]

I may be completely wrong here, but maybe your city is too saturated with commercial which is making the buildings go vacant.

What I'm trying to say is you might have too much commercial and not enough residents to support it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I may be completely wrong here, but maybe your city is too saturated with commercial which is making the buildings go vacant.

What I'm trying to say is you might have too much commercial and not enough residents to support it.

Look at your jobs and population graph. You can selectively delete the lines you are not interested in. You may find that the lines for C are above the lines for population, in which case, this is confirmed.

The only way to fix low customers is to put the commercial on busy thoroughfares. Best place is between industrial and residential. The busier the street, the better for business.

[semo 14]

Thank you JD and Noony for the replies. I'm going to try tweaking some things traffic-wise and see if I can't get more success. I'm also starting to think that following the traffic advisors advice when it comes to congestion is working against my goal of increasing customers.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Thank you JD and Noony for the replies. I'm going to try tweaking some things traffic-wise and see if I can't get more success. I'm also starting to think that following the traffic advisors advice when it comes to congestion is working against my goal of increasing customers.

Watch out for those triply-defined, double-damned advisors. Their private agendas will derail you. If you want to see them as they really are enter CTRL+xdollyllamaRETURN then open their panel.

[z1 566]

I'm also starting to think that following the traffic advisors advice when it comes to congestion is working against my goal of increasing customers.

This is very likely true, especially if you're using the NAM. The NAM traffic simulator more accurately simulates stoplights and stop signs by increasing congestion around those intersections, but the traffic advisor is too dumb to realize this, and tells you that you have too much congestion. The original Maxis traffic simulator in general is very poorly tuned, and a lot of the advice of many of the advisors is designed to help you overcome its limitations. Since these limitations don't exist in the NAM traffic simulator, such advice is irrelevant at best, and harmful at worst.

So as you may gather, I agree with Moose about the advisors here.

[semo 14]

Update:

My city is now at over 379,000 sims. And I did make some tweaks to the traffic system. I had put in a subway system to help with buildings being abandoned due to commute time. But as I mentioned before, I suspected that decreasing street traffic (to decrease congestion) was affecting the number of customers. So as a test, I took out all of the subway stations (I didn't bother deleting the tunnels in case I wanted to use them in the future).

I then saw my first commercial buildings with medium to high customer levels. I then noticed that by using the query tool to track which streets were most congested I could strategically place commercial buildings (as someone suggested, placing them between residential neighborhoods and industrial sectors helped drive traffic and thus customers).

Things are still not perfect. With no subway system, there are more cars on the road and more pollution. I also have to deal more with buildings becoming abandoned due to commute time. And some commercial buildings still have a low number of customers. But it feels nice to know that at least there's not a bug in my game artificially keeping the number of customers down.

Now I just need to work on increasing demand for high wealth commercial offices and doing better city planning so that my commercial districts thrive.

  Edited July 11, 2012 by semo  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Where you have a high number of pedestrians, examine the routes and open your subways accordingly. The stations need not be very close to each other. Sims will walk a long way. Buses to bus/subway stations also work well. I only put subways on routes that go well over 100%.

  Edited July 12, 2012 by A Nonny Moose  

[Jimmy Buzaid 53]

Look where your Main CBD is centered though, It would be better in the center of the city.

  Edited July 17, 2012 by Jimmy Buzaid  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Actually, quite interesting. I often do not have one CBD, as do many cities that grow up from separate towns. I do this in large tiles because it is a natural occurrence around here in RL. As towns become cities, they often merge but only urban redevelopment would consolidate the various business districts. I like the distributed paradigm.

[semo 14]

Where you have a high number of pedestrians, examine the routes and open your subways accordingly. The stations need not be very close to each other. Sims will walk a long way. Buses to bus/subway stations also work well. I only put subways on routes that go well over 100%.

Thank you for posting this. I have slowly added some subway stations back in but haven't been sure where to place them. I don't want to over-saturate the city with them like before.

Look where your CBD is centered though, It would be better in the center of the city.

I'll have to keep this in mind for future cities. I'm not sure I'd know how to go about restructuring my current city to match this (without having all my sims move away).

Actually, quite interesting. I often do not have one CBD, as do many cities that grow up from separate towns. I do this in large tiles because it is a natural occurrence around here in RL. As towns become cities, they often merge but only urban redevelopment would consolidate the various business districts. I like the distributed paradigm.

Interesting perspective. I've just started to play around with building up the cities surrounding my main city. This is the first time I've done this and I feel like a novice. I'm trying to balance things between the cities so that demand in all of them goes up. But my main city seems to be going through a recession and I've started seeing a lot of unemployment symbols pop up. And now I'm not sure if it's due to the traffic changes or changes I've made in connected cities.

Every time things seem to be going well, demand will plummet unexpectedly and the population will drop by thousands. So I find myself not doing a lot of game saves as I try to figure out what's going on. I also suspect I'm confusing and mixing up the different aspects of commercial demand vs. level of customers.

[defacto123 14]

I think if you don't mix residential and commercial so much (maybe do 4 blocks of residential, then 4 blocks of commercial, etc.), you'll get more traffic and thus more customers. For a main city, I tend to have more commercial in the center and more residential on the sides, while relegating industrial zones to neighboring cities. Neighboring cities are very important, especially for a city this large. They share demand and allow commuters to travel between cities, thus allowing for specialization as well as letting people on the border go to work in the neighboring city if it has excess jobs.

[semo 14]

I think if you don't mix residential and commercial so much (maybe do 4 blocks of residential, then 4 blocks of commercial, etc.), you'll get more traffic and thus more customers. For a main city, I tend to have more commercial in the center and more residential on the sides, while relegating industrial zones to neighboring cities. Neighboring cities are very important, especially for a city this large. They share demand and allow commuters to travel between cities, thus allowing for specialization as well as letting people on the border go to work in the neighboring city if it has excess jobs.

Do you ever have issues with abandonment due to commute time when placing commercial mostly in the center?