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Carny

Help about "crashing squares" in the game?

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Hi to everyone.

First of all, sorry for my poor and not so fantastic english. :/

Now, let's go to my biggest problem in SC4: "untouchble" squares.

On some city maps lately i'm finding  some few random squares not allowing construction on them to anything, or any attempt of terraforming  in both Mayor or God mode (and also "disaster" mode, when i try to create a Volcano on them, for example). Also, when i try to place a road or Any kind of unfriendly onslope lots, the game shuts down to desktop!

I tried everything to fix the problem:

- I removed any kind of Terrain mod

- i tried to run the game with "high priority" and with 1CPU affinity (i've a Dual Core Processor)

- I tried also to run the game with low graphics effects, city's details and textures quality

...but ANYTHING is changed: the game keeps crashing.

Plus i noticed that lately the "untouchable" squares number keeps increasing as i keep to build new things on that map. even in previously "zoned" or "roaded" areas i had the bad idea to demolish for making some urban changes.

Probably  it's a memory's problem (i've about 2.3GB of plugins and  actually in this city are many big buildings and skycrapers), assuming  also that it's a large-tile city. But anyway i'm not sure.

So, are there other people with my same problem? Are here someone able to give me/us a praticable solution of it?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. This is my actual system:

- Dual Core Processor 1.8GB

- 4GB Ram

- about 100GB free on HD

- Ati Radeon 128Mb video Card (not so fantastic as performance, but anyway good enough for a 2003's game like Sc4)

- - - - - Carny

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The only thing I've seen that might be similar to this is having a tree mod in use (and having trees), but then removing the mod without demolishing the trees first. I don't remember if the details of the problem match yours, but I thought I would offer it up...

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  • Original Poster
  • Thanks CaptCity.

    I tried to remove all of this:

    - Tree Replacement mod

    - MaxisOak Replacement mod

    - No.8 and 9 CPT tree models and the relative tree controller.

    BUT the game keeps crashing on some squares, plus I noticed also a a weird thing: after the removal of that replacement mods, trees on the free areas were replaced by some of Simfox trees (i have them as dependency for some of his lots) instead of the old classic Maxis trees. Why?? o.O

    Anyway, i've still this boring problem: the game crashes to desktop immediately after i inadvertently touch one of this invisible and "forbidden" squares on the map. Pratically i can't zone or build anymore on that city, and it's very frustating: i've no IDEA how many time i invested on that city, i was close to complete it but now the max i can do on it is only to see without touching everything. :-(

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    Read the instruction carefully for the CPT tree mod, as I remeber, there can be problems if it is not installed, or uninstalled correctly.

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  • Original Poster
  • Yeah, i have got the confirmation: the problem is the tree mod.

    In facts, also when i try to terraform an empty map actually the game crashes to desktop. I'll check better my plugins folder to find out where is the problem.

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    Originally posted by: Carny

    Yeah, i have got the confirmation: the problem is the tree mod.

    In facts, also when i try to terraform an empty map actually the game crashes to desktop. I'll check better my plugins folder to find out where is the problem.quote>

    If the 'empty' city was ever saved with a terrain (and possibly a tree mod), the crashes could occur if the mods were not removed correctly. As for your tree mod issues, removing the mod from the plugins may not be sufficient to cure the problem. You might have to demolish all trees in the city that grew using the mod (with the mod installed) - that could be difficult depending on the city. If possible, you might try re-installing all the mods you've used back into the plugins to see if the city becomes usable again. Just as thought...

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    It probably is the tree mod as those tend to be permanent for reasons noted.

    However, you didn't state how big your virtual space is.  You should try setting it to at least 4GB.

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  • Original Poster
  • @Captcity:

    yeah, i was trying exactly that: to try removing all the trees, to save the city without them, then to do some attempt with or without reinstalling only the right mod. But at the moment, i keep getting crashes, so i'm gonna think i can consider as LOST pratically 2 big cities plus some other saved tiles. I've yet re-downloaded the entire region, it doesn't make sense to play on the old compromised one, but i have still it in a separate folder, hoping in a solution (but i'm pretty pessimist at the moment). :-/

    By the way, i think the problem was a conflit between a CPT_tree controller and probably the SFBT Tree replacement mod (both replace CPT trees in the god mode, so i suppose this can generate problems) plus i found another weird file on my folder, named HBS_californian_mediterranean_treemod. I didn't know to have it and i've just removed it.

    Now I'm doing some attempts terraforming random tiles on another region using the CPT_genericTreecontroller with the Meadowshire Terrain Mod, it seems all it's ok.

    Next step will be to try adding again the SFBT Replacement mod and plant some trees on an empty city, save and reload the same city and then verify if the game crashes or not.

    However, after all, now i've a big question: I will always have these problems in the future when I will change my terrain/tree mod? Pratically everytime i will LOSE entire regions...:-|

    @Nonny Moose: I yet tried that too. I always run the game with at least 8-10GB of virtual memory, but the game kept crashing. Actually the "corrupted" cities keep crashing to desktop and i don't see a solution for them, except to NOT play on them (i'll remove the entire region as i wrote above :-/ ). The problem is surely connected to terrain or tree mods.

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    Originally posted by: Carny

    By the way, i think the problem was a conflit between a CPT_tree controller and probably the SFBT Tree replacement mod (both replace CPT trees in the god mode, so i suppose this can generate problems)quote>

    Of course, I can't gaurantee your experience will be the same as mine, but I regularly use the CPT Tree controller and the SFBT Replacement mod at the same time and haven't had any problems. The instructions for the SFBT file doesn't mention any conflicts. However...

    plus i found another weird file on my folder, named HBS_californian_mediterranean_treemod. I didn't know to have it and i've just removed it.quote>

    This is a tree mod by Heblem, and the readme does mention to demolish all trees before removing the mod from the plugins. I've never used it, so I couldn't say what would happen.

    Now I'm doing some attempts terraforming random tiles on another region using the CPT_genericTreecontroller with the Meadowshire Terrain Mod, it seems all it's ok.

    Next step will be to try adding again the SFBT Replacement mod and plant some trees on an empty city, save and reload the same city and then verify if the game crashes or not. quote>

    You must be able to see my plugins... 2.gif   All three that you mentioned there are, again, ones that I use together regularly witout issue.

    However, after all, now i've a big question: I will always have these problems in the future when I will change my terrain/tree mod? Pratically everytime i will LOSE entire regions...quote>

    I don't think the issue is which ones are used or used together as much as how they are installed or uninstalled. And no, you should not lose the regions/cities every time you change terrain/tree mods. It is entirely possible to change from one to another without any conflicts as long as it's done correctly. Having specific regions that use a certain set of these types of mods is not something uncommon. I (and others I know of) have plugins set up in just such a manner. Just be sure to watch out for those tree mods that have to have the trees demolished before removal. It might be safer to use specific mods for specific regions.

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  • Original Poster
  • Thanks for the help CaptCity. :-)

    After your last post, i'm pretty sure the problem was the HBS controller tree. I had it in my folder and i didn't know that, so probably when i installed the CPT controller, this generated the conflict and so, the bug. In theory, removing the CPT controller and replacing the HBS's one, the city shoud come back to be playable. I'll give it a try. 2.gif

    Last two little questions then:

    - I see we'r using the same terrain/tree mods. Well, when i use the CPT generic Tree Controller in God Mode, i get tons of "PEG scrub brush" on middle altitude (and highest one too) and trees in lower or higher posiTion (sub-alpine pines grow near the snow) I HATE it, i would like to have trees there. Is this a bug or is the normal action of the controller? Is there a way to get rid of scrub brush and replace them with other trees without changing the entire Tree controller? What's your experience about this?

    - Do you have the link of HBS controller tree we mentioned above, please? As i wrote, my last chance for saving my cities is to replace that old mod and remove all the trees. :-/

    Thanks in advance and sorry for your time. 2.gif

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    Originally posted by: Carny

    After your last post, i'm pretty sure the problem was the HBS controller tree. I had it in my folder and i didn't know that, so probably when i installed the CPT controller, this generated the conflict and so, the bug. In theory, removing the CPT controller and replacing the HBS's one, the city shoud come back to be playable. I'll give it a try. quote>

    Sounds like it's worth a try. Might depend on how long they co-existed and what took place after one or the other was removed. Hope you get it figured out.

    ...Well, when i use the CPT generic Tree Controller in God Mode, i get tons of "PEG scrub brush" on middle altitude (and highest one too) and trees in lower or higher posiTion (sub-alpine pines grow near the snow) I HATE it, i would like to have trees there. Is this a bug or is the normal action of the controller? Is there a way to get rid of scrub brush and replace them with other trees without changing the entire Tree controller? What's your experience about this?quote>

    To be honest, it has been a good long while since I've played with serious terrain variations. I've become more of a rolling hills type, so I don't remember specific flora growing at certain elevations. Wish I could be more specific. Perhaps I'll try to do some testing... However, on that note, I seem to remember something being brought up about Peg's flora growing in surprising places. I can't say for sure if it was with a particular tree mod, if it was a 'bug,' or if it was just the controller function. I'll see if I can find the reference (It was a while ago, though). Just a thought... Do you think you might have any of Peg's plugins installed? Maybe something from his MTP collection?

    Do you have the link of HBS controller tree we mentioned above, please?quote>

    I believe it is this one (Link).

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  • Original Poster
  • Thanks a lot for the link, Captcity. It's it.

    I replaced the HBS controller and tried to build something in the same "crashing" areas on the corrupted maps. I have to say that almost the entire map seems to work normally, BUT there are still some untouchble specific squares, with or without trees on them. On this ones i can't do everything, also to bulldoze a tree on them, otherwise i get sistematically the C2Desktop. For this squares i think there isn't a real solution, so i'm trying to completing my cities on these maps without touching them. Luckily, most of the territory on the corrupted maps s is again playable after the HBS controller's replacement (without any other controller in the folder, obviously).

    About the Peg plugins, i've installed time ago a MTP dependency and the scrub brush, but i have also removed them too from my folder. Anyway, also without the "PEG scrub brush" installed, my generic CPT controller keeps to plop them in godmode at some elevations and on slopes. Plus, i tried to create another empty plugins folder with inside only the CPT generic controller and the essential files of the tree and the terrain mod (no PEG files, nothing else), then i loaded a random map and i placed the flora in godmode: PEG scrub brush keeps to be plopped as part of the flora! So i'm gonna think they are included anyway directly in the CPT props.

    Anyway i'll wait for your attempts and a your reply too. Maybe it's only the nth unknow bug i created and there is a solution of it. 2.gif

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    Did some testing... Don't know how much it will help, but...

    Loaded up Meadowshire Terrain Mod and the Generic Tree controller in empty plugin folders, and I attempted to to draw flora on various terrain heights. Did not see any of Peg scrub bush - as expected. I did see the SubAlpine Firs on terrain near snow levels - so it looks like that is a function of the mod.

    I then added Peg's Srub Brush mod and did see the scrub brush appear on medium slopes when drawing in God Mode. This makes me want to believe that you might have it installed 'somewhere'... Although you said you had removed it - curious... Did you happen to check in the other Plugins folder in the Program Files directory?

    Another thing... If I removed Peg's mod and re-entered the city, the scrub brush was gone, but if I tried to alter the terrain the game crashed - not totally surprising. I then put the mod back in and deleted all flora. After that, I was able to remove the mod and run the game without incident. This sounds like the effects of incorrectly removing terrain and/or tree mods.

    As for your case, it seems that unknowingly going back and forth between conflicting terrain/tree mods may have 'permanently' corrupted those tiles where there had been trees - similar to what happens when using different functioning seaports or airports incorrectly. You might try making a backup of the current region (since it 'almost' works) and use it to try putting both the scrub brush mod and the HBT mod in the plugins, then open the city and delete all flora (if that's possible), save it and see what happens after removing the mods. I wouldn't think this has much chance of success, so a backup would be the way to try it. That way you would still have the original that is mostly usable.

    That's about the limit of my understanding how these things work. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will be along to offer better suggestions.

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  • Original Poster
  • I have to thank you again Captcity. 4.gif

    After your last post, I solved every problem and my cities are again fully working. This is the why and the origin of all my problems:

    I remembered that in the past I also was using a PEG tree mod, replacing defaut Maxis God Mode trees with the Peg Pines. I removed it about 2 weeks ago when i installed CPT controller and the TREE replacement mod, unknowing two essential things:

    - the need to remove all the old plopped flora

    - the simultaneus presence of the HBS_tree controller mod in my plugins folder

    All this installed controllers created a weird, confused but also "stable" situation until they were all in my folder, but when i removed the ones able to give C2D (HBS and PEG mods) i started to get C2D. I couldn't find the solution because the problem was originated by multiple mods and NOT by just one of them, plus i didn't know or remember to have some of this installed mods. To read your last post and the mention to PEG's flora "somewhere" gave me the final solution. 9.gif

    Coming back to scrub brush, you'r right: if i use only a plugins folder with only essentials files for the CPT trees, controller and terrain mod, effectively i don't get them. But if i place the BSC files folder into the plugins folder, they come back as god mode flora. So i think scrub brush are part of some BSC props pack somewhere.

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    Glad you got things "cleaned" out and working...

    Originally posted by: Carny

    Coming back to scrub brush, you'r right: if i use only a plugins folder with only essentials files for the CPT trees, controller and terrain mod, effectively i don't get them. But if i place the BSC files folder into the plugins folder, they come back as god mode flora. So i think scrub brush are part of some BSC props pack somewhere.quote>

    I tried my BSC set (contains all the common Mega packs) in my test city I used above, but I didn't see any brush on slopes. Perhaps you have something in yours that includes those props...

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  • Original Poster
  • hmm I'll check better where is the problem for scrub brush, luckily it's not so important. I've surely some file somewhere in a wrong position into my folder. Anyway thanks a lot for your help about it. 4.gif

    I swear: this is my last question to you about tree mods:

    there is a mod/controller able to plant seasonal trees in god mode?

    Thanks in advance for your answer. :-)

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    Originally posted by: Carny

    ...there is a mod/controller able to plant seasonal trees in god mode?quote>

    I don't believe so. I don't think the trees work the same in God Mode as Mayor Mode. There are seasonal tree lots available on the STEX and elsewhere, and there was some work with Mayor Mode ploppable trees done in the 3RR thread at SC4Devotion. You can get a set here (Link) - scroll down a bit to find the link. Also in 3RR, work is being done on changing seasonal things, but nothing has been released yet. More info on test items can be found somewhere around here if interested (Link).

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  • Original Poster
  • @Captcity

    I've yet all the existing seasonal trees and lots and all 3RR's files. I like them a lot, this is the why i asked you about a specific tree controllers for them. It was just a curiosity. 2.gif

    Thanks again for all your help.

    @Raceman95

    If this thread can help other people with similar problems, i'll be doubly pleased. 4.gif

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