Rating Manipulations

[Vlasky 1,803]

Are there any suggestions so far on fixing the issue of people maliciously down-rating a great content on STEX, made by people who are known for producing a very high quality content? Can we find a new way to address this problem and by doing so, not loose the very purpose of the 'stars'? Would it be fair if new members were limited for some time to rate?

[T Wrecks 10,210]

The topic has been discussed, but AFAIK, there is no definitive solution as of yet.

The problem is you can't really do it right:

• If you allow totally anonymous ratings, some lamers and trolls will doubtlessly abuse the rating function.
• If you limit ratings to experiences users, you imply that new users cannot be trusted (which may be wrong), and you have no protection against ST-experienced rating trolls, either. I doubt that most downratings are by people who just registered to spread some mischief. Many downratings might be due to people having personal problems with someone else, and these might have deepened over time.
• Finally, if you make all ratings public, you risk a fallback to the problem ST used to have before - everybody who dared to rate anything lower than a 9/10 was "cruising for a bruising" from other users who wanted to defend the uploader, even if the upload was mediocre. Thus, most uploads ended up somewhere between 93% and 99%. Now that was nice and friendly and all, but it rendered the rating rather useless actually. With the new rating, people have actually found numbers as low as 3 or even 2 on their keyboards.  (Yes, I'm exaggerating a bit, but that's more or less the way I see it. Anyway, I guess the ratings would be discussed among users, so the comments section could end up as a fighting arena).

IMO, one feasible approach would be to make ratings visible to STEX moderators only so obvious rating trolls could be caught. People who don'r rate everything down and/or provide reasons for their rating wouldn't have to fear anything, of course.

I guess it also depends on the software, though -  when I said "feasible" in the previous paragraph, I meant feasible from a conceptual point of view. I don't know if the STEX software would allow this approach to be feasible from a technical point of view, though.

The good news is that in the end, the majority of normal ST folk prevails and those trolls actually don't stand a chance.

Other aspects that can be forgotten in a heated debate about this topic are that people might unintentionally click the wrong rating, or that they may have misunderstood the rating scale and mistaken the "1" for the best rating. I guess things like that can happen with people from all over the world gathering here - especially since many of these people are probably young and don't understand English all too well.

[psander5 198]

With enough votes and more rating levels (I don't think 5 is enough), you could omit the upper and lower extremes, say 2-5%.  That way a few trolls, mistakes or the too easily impressed wouldn't have any effect on the average.  I'm sure there's a proper statistical name for this kind of averaging, but I'm too far out of school to remember it

To be honest though I don't really look too closely at the ratings.  If it's above 2 stars and has a few votes I assume it isn't spam so I take a look.  It's better to assess an upload based on pictures and descriptions.   

[DCMetro34 577]

If you think about it, a decent portion of the ratings are based on how "well" you know the person, OR how well the display pictures looks.

A prime example is with my most recent lot.

I first released this about a week ago, and after a couple days, it was rated a 4.86.....which was my highest rating ever. 

One person discovered that I had uploaded the wrong file....so instead of ignoring it and taking the rating, I uploaded the fixed version. 

And....it cost me some points....as you can see here. So, yes, my lots have been rated "1" before for no particular reason, but this reason might have turned out to be that people were still skeptical on whether or not this lot actually worked....again, because people rate before they use it in game.

EDIT: I do agree with what psander5 says...but what I don't get is how you can rate something as low as 3 when you haven't even used it in your city yet. It just makes absolutely no since. (Just felt like saying that as my lot just got  a couple 3 votes.....and a couple downloads, I might add). 

DC

[madhatter106 3,931]

Originally posted by: psander5

With enough votes and more rating levels (I don't think 5 is enough), you could omit the upper and lower extremes, say 2-5%.  That way a few trolls, mistakes or the too easily impressed wouldn't have any effect on the average.  I'm sure there's a proper statistical name for this kind of averaging, but I'm too far out of school to remember it. quote>

This sounds like a great idea.  I personally have seen some oddities in the ratings of my stuff, as well as downrating of comments en masse, but nothing to the extreme of something like the recent BAT4Max release...

[Craig-Abcvs 1,595]

I very much doubt that it is 'new' members that are causing the problem.

[blade2k5 1,523]

I got a better idea. Get rid pf the rating system altogether. End of problem. All you really need are the comments users leave behind anyways, so that makes the ratings a moot point and unnecessary.

[p_kitaro 0]

The STEX needs to look more like the new CJ section.  Comments can be left on the bottom of a post so users browsing can view replies before even clicking.

However, the star system should stay.  It's much more easier to interpret a star rating over reading millions of comments.

I've read another thread with a user opting for this option.  Instead maybe it should only record a certain number of votes, like 10 or 20, and just push the older ratings off.

The new CJ section has this issue.  I've read some journal that started off crappy get bad scores, but as CJers got more in-tune with their stories, some have gotten really good later on.  But since the votes stay calculated, they have to live with the bad score. It gets even harder to raise the rating as more votes get tallied.  The voting system should reflect the change made to the journal.  It's not a fair system.

For the "spamming" issue: It'd be great if Simtropolis can mandate commenting to rate, sort of like a " comment to rate" thing.  An icon showing what the poster rated can be left on the side like this...

***** CoolUser1: "Nice Bat!!!"

**      SimDude: "Change the textures they're butt-ugly!!!!"

It makes anonymous ratings moot and "spammed" comments could be flagged and pulled by the moderators.

[TEG24601 32]

I think the best way, especially with CJs is to use the IMDB formula. It would require a little modification, but it could work. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Movie_Database

[Craig-Abcvs 1,595]

In the CJ section users can not rate until there are 5 updates. This allows the author time to establish the CJ. 5 updates is a resonable number, for the readers to then make some kind of informed decsion as to how it should be rated.

How this would equate to the STEX... not sure, but perhaps there could be some kind of delay before a new upload is eligable to be rated, or that it needs a certain number of downloads before it can be rated.

Perhaps an upload should only be able to be rated if you have actually downloaded the file.

Ideally no-one should ever rate an upload to the STEX unless they have actually downloaded and used it... but I suspect that many if not most ratings are given simply by judging the book by its cover, that is the screen shot or the description.

Again this depends on the software, and what is 'feasible'.

[madhatter106 3,931]

Originally posted by: blade2k5

I got a better idea. Get rid pf the rating system altogether. End of problem. All you really need are the comments users leave behind anyways, so that makes the ratings a mute point and unnecessary.quote>

I love when people do this!

Mute - unable to speak

Moot - inconsequential or minor

Teehee...

Originally posted by: abcvs

Ideally no-one should ever rate an upload to the STEX unless they have actually downloaded and used it... but I suspect that many if not most ratings are given simply by judging the book by its cover, that is the screen shot or the description.quote>

Devil's advocate - I'm extremely picky about what I put in my plugins folder; if we go by actual downloads, people would download just to comment, then get rid of the file if they didn't want it, which would increase STEX site useage for the wrong purpose.  Often I can admire and comment on a BAT, good or not, without needing or wanting it in my plugins folder...

[blade2k5 1,523]

Originally posted by: madhatter106

Originally posted by: blade2k5

I got a better idea. Get rid pf the rating system altogether. End of problem. All you really need are the comments users leave behind anyways, so that makes the ratings a mute point and unnecessary.quote>

I love when people do this!

Mute - unable to speak

Moot - inconsequential or minor

Teehee...quote>

That happens when you use one word more often than another.