ST official Cablegate thread

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

Originally posted by: mightygoose

i totally agree, and it seems its going to get worse, the chair of the house commitee for homeland security has expressed wishes for assange to be added to the Specially Designated National and Blocked Persons List

this is normally reserved for terrorists and dictators.

quote>

The American knee must be a real jerk.

quote>

"Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available."

Gregory Benford

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

Originally posted by: mightygoose

i totally agree, and it seems its going to get worse, the chair of the house commitee for homeland security has expressed wishes for assange to be added to the Specially Designated National and Blocked Persons List

this is normally reserved for terrorists and dictators.

quote>

The American knee must be a real jerk.

quote>

"Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available."

Gregory Benfordquote>

Isn't that the same as "Those who know the least say the most"?

 

[Easy Bakes 253]

Probabaly

[Duke87 1,070]

even though there’s nothing illegal in publishing classified documents.quote>

Wait, what?

[mightygoose 92]

nope duke nothing illegal, its like its legal in the UK to smoke pot in your own home, you can do it, the illegality comes from getting hold of the damn stuff,

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Duke87 1,070]

Indeed, even unauthorized posession of classified information is a crime.

If an official email I recieved last month is accurate (and I have no reason to believe it isn't), when an unauthorized computer containins classified information, it is a security violation, and part of the standard response when reported to the DoD is that said computer needs to be "sanitized". Which I assume is a euphemism for "destroyed" (by a standard procedure of destruction). So, yeah, this is serious business!

The question, though, is whether an individual not under contract to keep information secret can be obliged to do so once they have obtained it. Oddly enough, the answer may actually be no.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, I have been really involved with the security establishment in Canada and I postulate, since there is cooperation, it is not greatly different in the U.S. or anyplace else for that matter.

Material comes in several classifications from "unclassified" to something above top secret (which is also classified).  You never know what your real "clearance" is.  Only the security officer assigned to you knows, and he is not allowed to tell you.

Some classifications allow you to "read-down"  but not "write-up".  That is, you can read certain classified material but you cannot write anything at that level onto the data base.  In other cases, your security level is no-access, which means you can't even find out if the material exists.  The idea that people have specific security clearances is at best a gray area, because you never know where you are in the scheme of things. 

However, one thing is abundantly clear.  You are not allowed to talk to anyone about material you see, read, hear, or sense in any way, and passing such material along is a violation of the Official Secrets Act, and subject to such penalies as laid down in the act including charges of both Espionage and Treason.

If our young man did not understand that, I am sure he does now.  I am a signatory of the Official Secrets Act of Canada.  I very carefully read it before I put my signature on it agreeing to all of its provisions, holus bolus.

[mightygoose 92]

this discussion is very insightful, click for full 1hr 44mins

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Thanks for not posting that verbatim.  I don't have that much time to spend on a tempest in a tea pot.

[mightygoose 92]

one of my favourite points was the developing dichotomy from ellsberg (pentagon papers) being regarded as a national hero and assange being treated ad hominem.

[morriswalters 16]

?For clarity from Wikipedia article on the Espionage Act

The Supreme Court in

New York Times Co. v. United States

found that the government had not made a successful case for

prior restraint,

but a

majority of the justices ruled that the government could still prosecute the

Times

and the

Post

for violating the Espionage Act in publishing the documents

. Ellsberg and Russo were not acquitted of violating the Espionage Act, but were freed due to a mistrial based on irregularities in the government's case.

From the Wikipedia article on New York Times cited above, a quote from the espionage act

The statute was spread over three pages of the

United States Code

Annotated

and the only part that appeared to apply to the

Times

was 793(e), which made it

criminal

for:

Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, or note relating to the national defense, or information relating to the national defense which information the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates, delivers, transmits or causes to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted, or attempts to communicate, deliver, transmit or cause to be communicated, delivered, or transmitted the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same and fails to deliver it to the officer or employee of the United States entitled to receive it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

That's basically what our act says up here in the frozen north.  The kid is a dead duck.  He will be convicted and at best sentenced to life in Leavenworth, which definitely lowers his life expectancy.

Since he violated his oath in the military, they can charge him with that too under the UCMJ.

His biggest problem was hubris.  Couldn't keep his mouth shut after the act.  Nemesis will take the form of the U.S. Code.

Nothing will happen to the real guilty parties who couldn't help themselves from producing such stupid documents.  As someone says on here, stupidity is its own reward.