California's Prop 19 discussion thread

[Ocram's Razr 964]

I have heard about the blood oozing, it is rare but serious.

[p_kitaro 0]

Originally posted by: Jasoncw

imo, the long term health of the US depends on a strong Mexico, and a strong Mexico depends on getting the drug stuff under control. I think marijuana is dumb, but legalizing it might leave the US better off.quote>

True with that!  But we need to remember, "why is Mexico the drug highway of N. America?".  I don't know why the main point of Prop 19 is to "make money in a financial mess."  The real issue we need to focus on is how we can stop the cartelling of illicit substances across the border.  More people get killed smuggling it in that those who are really using it.  Perhaps the US should beat them at their own game.

[TwisterAce 3]

I support the legalization of cannabis, not just in California but in the entire United States. Our so-called "War on Drugs" is nothing but Prohibition 2.0, and it must come to an end. If legal, cannabis (or hemp, marijuana, ganja, pot, weed, grass, whatever you call it) would be sold, regulated, and taxed much like tobacco and alcohol are today. Billions of dollars could be saved from decriminalization, and law enforcement could focus its attention on drugs that can kill you (heroin, cocaine, etc.). Using cannabis as a recreational drug would be a purely personal choice.

There are also the countless applications of hemp. Hemp can be used to make:

- Paper (more durable than wood pulp-based paper; hemp plant can be grown quicker and takes up less space than trees)

- Plastics (made from hemp seed oil; biodegradable)

- Medicine (cannabidiol inhibits cancer cell growth, and can relieve nausea, inflammation, and anxiety)

- Food (hemp seeds contain all essential amino and fatty acids)

- Fiber (used in clothing, canvas, ropes, etc.; stronger and more durable than competing natural and synthetic fibers)

- Biofuel (clean-burning, non-toxic, renewable energy; in fact Henry Ford built a hemp-fueled car made from hemp plastic in the 1930s)

In a world where fossil fuels are running out and and synthetic chemicals are degrading the environment, industrial hemp will enable sustainable living and development.

I'm not sure if legalizing cannabis and taxing it will solve all of California's economic woes, but it's a step in the right direction. It will inspire other states to put legalization on the ballot, and it will send a strong message to the Federal government that the people are sick and tired of Prohibition 2.0.

Here's an interesting video that everyone should watch:

"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom." ~ Bill Hicks

[Ocram's Razr 964]

I believe that hemp (low THC, strong fibered Cannabis sativa) should be grown commonly. I also believe that pharmaceutical companies should make GBD and THC/GBD prescription medicine and do more research into THC and GBD.

[Slashback 136]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Here's a wacky example:  I do not support helmet laws for adults.  It is unsafe to bike without a helmet, but I am NOT going to force someone to do it (right now, I think most, if not all, US states have helmet laws).

Barbarossa

quote>

You can't compare riding a bike without a helmet, to smoking a joint. Riding a bike without helmet can only do damage to yourself, while smoking a joint also affects the people around you.

@hym: I share your opinions.

@TwisterAce: What about all the things they aren't telling us about in the video. People who smokes marijuana are 2x more likely to get  schizophrenia, depression and other psychiatric illnesses. Marijuana also corrodes the membrane around your brain, and i guess that isn't good for you...

[Ocram's Razr 964]

THC increases the likelihood and severity of psychotic episodes but GBD lowers them.

[SimRabbit 48]

I am all for legalization. I am sure it will solve the financial issues on many states like Cali by taxing a widely used product.

The people should have the freedom to do whatever they please as long as it doesn't affect the life of others.

All the money spent on a worthless war known as the "War on Drugs" should be spent on better things.

The government knows they will never win this war, we should bring the "weed" analogy and contrast. By weed I do not mean the drug, rather than the unwanted plants that grow anywhere. Going after the drug dealers is like mowing down the "weed". Going after a whole drug ring is like taking the "weed" by the root. The "weed" may be gone but that doesn't mean another "weed" will take the empty space. If the land is well irrigated (drug demand) it is prone to more weeds (drug dealers).

It's like they never learn from their mistakes, this is Prohibition 2.0 like someone said in this thread. I do suspect the tobacco companies are lobbying the government agencies to keep marijuana use illicit. Don't quote me on this.

BTW, I am not a marijuana user, never have, never will. Same for alcohol, tobacco and other substances. I hope I can always stick to this pledge.

[sneakeypete 16]

There is always the debate of if the extra health costs of doing someone doing something that can hurt themselves costing the state for their healthcare is hurtnign others (eg, the obesity debate, seatbelts), but i guess that's not completely applicable in the US.

Children could be a big factor in this too, (eg,parents who always get high), much the same way as it currently is with alchahol.

I beleive though, that in the end is very similar to booze, good in moderation, people need to educate themselves on that. I do beleive that there should be, perhaps, a "settling in period" or something. just letting it loose one day will probably cause problems with people overindulging.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Barbarossa 51]

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[Slashback 136]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Second, cite an example of physiological addition to marijuana.  And it better not be from 1934.  Seriously, there isn't one. 

quote>

Like i said before:  People who smokes marijuana are 2x more likely to get  schizophrenia, depression and other psychiatric illnesses.

Actually, some scientist believe, that they're actually 4x more like ly to get those psychiatric illnesses, and if that isn't a psychological addition, then I really don't know what to call it.

[Slashback 136]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Second, cite an example of physiological addition to marijuana.  And it better not be from 1934.  Seriously, there isn't one. 

quote>

Like i said before:  People who smokes marijuana are 2x more likely to get  schizophrenia, depression and other psychiatric illnesses.

Actually, some scientist believe, that they're actually 4x more like ly to get those psychiatric illnesses, and if that isn't a psychological addition, then I really don't know what to call it.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Barbarossa 51]

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[Slashback 136]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Originally posted by: ImVhOzzi

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Second, cite an example of physiological addition to marijuana.  And it better not be from 1934.  Seriously, there isn't one. 

quote>

Like i said before:  People who smokes marijuana are 2x more likely to get  schizophrenia, depression and other psychiatric illnesses.

Actually, some scientist believe, that they're actually 4x more like ly to get those psychiatric illnesses, and if that isn't a psychological addition, then I really don't know what to call it.quote>

LOL, first of all, I said physiological, not psychological.

But, since you are stuck on the psychological aspect:

This is information that needs to be properly disseminated, because your stats are not quite correct.  Within the mental health community, it is known that someone who uses marijuana and is predisposed to mental illness, namely schizophrenia, can find their disorder appears earlier than its natural progression would dictate.  It doesn't cause the disorder.  Studies have shown that manifestations of mental illness are, by majority, already present in the family line.

I am not aware of any studies that indicate marijuana will cause depression.  In fact, most of the literature indicates it can relieve depression.  I think this one is tricky, though.  For some people, use can cause anxiety.  That doesn't mean it causes depression, but it certainly reveals there are problems in the person's life that need to be addressed.  This is why many beleive that narcotics can open the mind.

What I think you need to understand is that marijuana isn't for everyone.  I say this because I'm sure you already recognize that alcohol isn't right for everyone (although I think it has a very important place in human development over time), nor is tobacco right for anyone.  But we live in a free country (I don't recall where you live, but it isn't the US) and I don't think that anyone else should have the right to tell someone else how to live their life, if said person's way of life has no right-violating impact on them.  Simply, if some guy wants to smoke pot all day and work in a burger joint for the rest of his life, it is no business of mine. 

Barbarossa

quote>

Oh, I simply missed that one, I guess I see what I wan't to see.

- But it certainly has physiological additions. Your body is slower after smoking a joint, and so is your reaction time.

This article is about the psychological additions of marijuana, and if you bother reading it, translate from Danish to English.

And I know you're living in a free country (I'm living in a free country too), and i can see what you mean about choosing your own way to live. I also know, that society doesn't have to pay for the medical treatment in your country. Actually, you have a whole different system than we have here. And i agree, that you should choose your own way to live. 

I can't speak for you Americans, but if you want a nation where about 1/4 of the working population smokes pot and works at burger joints, etc., that's ok with me. But that certainly won't help the economy. And i thought helping the economy was what this "prop 19" was all about? Or am I completely wrong?

[Slashback 136]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Originally posted by: ImVhOzzi

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Second, cite an example of physiological addition to marijuana.  And it better not be from 1934.  Seriously, there isn't one. 

quote>

Like i said before:  People who smokes marijuana are 2x more likely to get  schizophrenia, depression and other psychiatric illnesses.

Actually, some scientist believe, that they're actually 4x more like ly to get those psychiatric illnesses, and if that isn't a psychological addition, then I really don't know what to call it.quote>

LOL, first of all, I said physiological, not psychological.

But, since you are stuck on the psychological aspect:

This is information that needs to be properly disseminated, because your stats are not quite correct.  Within the mental health community, it is known that someone who uses marijuana and is predisposed to mental illness, namely schizophrenia, can find their disorder appears earlier than its natural progression would dictate.  It doesn't cause the disorder.  Studies have shown that manifestations of mental illness are, by majority, already present in the family line.

I am not aware of any studies that indicate marijuana will cause depression.  In fact, most of the literature indicates it can relieve depression.  I think this one is tricky, though.  For some people, use can cause anxiety.  That doesn't mean it causes depression, but it certainly reveals there are problems in the person's life that need to be addressed.  This is why many beleive that narcotics can open the mind.

What I think you need to understand is that marijuana isn't for everyone.  I say this because I'm sure you already recognize that alcohol isn't right for everyone (although I think it has a very important place in human development over time), nor is tobacco right for anyone.  But we live in a free country (I don't recall where you live, but it isn't the US) and I don't think that anyone else should have the right to tell someone else how to live their life, if said person's way of life has no right-violating impact on them.  Simply, if some guy wants to smoke pot all day and work in a burger joint for the rest of his life, it is no business of mine. 

Barbarossa

quote>

Oh, I simply missed that one, I guess I see what I wan't to see.

- But it certainly has physiological additions. Your body is slower after smoking a joint, and so is your reaction time.

This article is about the psychological additions of marijuana, and if you bother reading it, translate from Danish to English.

And I know you're living in a free country (I'm living in a free country too), and i can see what you mean about choosing your own way to live. I also know, that society doesn't have to pay for the medical treatment in your country. Actually, you have a whole different system than we have here. And i agree, that you should choose your own way to live. 

I can't speak for you Americans, but if you want a nation where about 1/4 of the working population smokes pot and works at burger joints, etc., that's ok with me. But that certainly won't help the economy. And i thought helping the economy was what this "prop 19" was all about? Or am I completely wrong?

[Ocram's Razr 964]

I have already stated this but I will tell you some of the sources.

BBC ran a study that showed that people who smoked marijuana high in THC were more likely to develop psychotic symptoms and that psychotic episodes became more frequent and severe (than the non-smoking and general populations). Other sources (I cannot remember where) showed that people who smoked marijuana high in GBD and low in THC had lower likelihood and severity of psychotic episodes and symptoms. Refined GBD is being tested in Europe as a possible anti-psychotic medicine.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

I have already stated this but I will tell you some of the sources.

BBC ran a study that showed that people who smoked marijuana high in THC were more likely to develop psychotic symptoms and that psychotic episodes became more frequent and severe (than the non-smoking and general populations). Other sources (I cannot remember where) showed that people who smoked marijuana high in GBD and low in THC had lower likelihood and severity of psychotic episodes and symptoms. Refined GBD is being tested in Europe as a possible anti-psychotic medicine.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Refined THC is used as a medicine to treat side effects of cancer but it has its own (easily readable) list of side effects, including psychosis and paranoia.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Refined THC is used as a medicine to treat side effects of cancer but it has its own (easily readable) list of side effects, including psychosis and paranoia.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Easy Bakes 253]

The vote time is close.

[Easy Bakes 253]

The vote time is close.

[Meg 368]

Prop 19 fails but voters approve marijuana taxes in several california cities

So it's illegal but taxable.

Cute trick if you can manage it.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Meg 368]

That's how they got Al Capone, on tax fraud.

[nathanthemayor 1,263]

I'm glad it wasn't passed. i'm afrid that one day a driver who is high will smash into my dad(or mom's) car while we are driving somewhere. Also, I find it annoying when people smoke around you.

[Easy Bakes 253]

How badly did it fail?

[nathanthemayor 1,263]

quote>