Stage8< Buildings Possible

[Tropod 144]

 

Thanks to phungus420 for suggesting this idea yet again. I've previously looked at this before, but never bothered to actually attempt anything.

 

let me be the first to say, I don't fully understand 100% the whole stages thing in the game. With that said, let me be the first to say I have some proof/evidence that Stage8< Buildings are possible.

 

Run down:

SimCity4 Stages:

Following goes over some aspects involved or related to Stages.
Game currently has 8 Stage levels for Residential/Commerical Buildings & 3 for Industrial buildings.

RCI Developer Exemplar files:
The RCI Developer Exemplars contain/control numerous aspects related to the different RCI types, wealths & densities.
Stage Count (0x87CD6360) property:

This looks as though it defines how many stages can exist for a given RCI wealth/type.

Stage # vs. Size (0x87CD636#): This is effectively the main Staging mechanism. And this is a comment from the Ingred.INI file;

;0x87cd6369-0x87cd636f are reserved for additional stages (some info in the Ingred.INI file isn't 100% accurate. Some is completely inaccurate).

This property controls the Stage vs population size growth levels. This property has paired values. First value is the percentage. 2nd value is the population size. As the stage levels increase, the Base size level increases but the upper size level stays the same. The percentages used, for a given population (of the same) level across the different Stage# properties, does seem to be totalled to 100% (though I've not looked at all of them). If the percentage(s) is part of the mechanism or is checked, this may mean the whole Stage system might have to be modified to take this into account if Stage8< were to be done (but not necessarily. I did not have to in order to have what I did work).

Other properties in these RCI Developer files may also have an impact, such as the *Cap properties. Other aspects of the game may also have an influence (Maxis themselves had even suggested ages ago that various aspects are taken into account when calculating Stage level of a Lot). Whether one property has an overriding say in the functionality/validity of another is something I couldn't really elaborate on at the moment, but I dare say the StageCount property does have a say in regards to the Stage vs Size property.

 

Lot Exemplar files (Growables only, obviously):
The Exemplar file containing the LotConfig lines contains the Growth Stage (0x27812837) Property. The value for this property appears to be the same as the last value for the Stage#vsSize property in the Developer Exemplar file. So this looks like it may effectively be the linking mechanism between a Lot & a given Stage level being applied to a Lot.

 

And at the moment, there does not appear to be anymore to it than this. So, the proof....

 

 

The following two pics may not look that enticing, but for what I was doing I needed to recognise easily if what I was doing was working (when testing if something is possible, quite often I'll take shortcuts to save on time. It has its pros n cons).

What I have actually done here; instead of trying to have a large population level for what I was testing (which considering, would take some time blah blah etc), I decided to lower the Size requirement of the Stage# vs. Size property. This doesn't necessarily invalidate what I've done (but it may, especially if a particular aspect of this is hardcoded). I also added an additional property Stage9vsSize (0x87CD6369). And created a set of modified Lots that have their Growth Stage Property set on 0x09. Which is what the simcity.com boxes in the following pictures are, the Stage9 Lots.

 

http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/2199/stage9testlot9ij.jpg align=baseline>

 

 

http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/985/stage9testlot0015ac.jpg align=baseline>

 

 

What kind of irregularities may exist with this I could not say. Obviously if something like this were to be done properly, that is the Stage#vsSize properties done properly, I think some input would be needed on just what exactly would be appropriate Stage levels beyond the games original 8 (at the most, an additional 7 Stages levels may be possible). And then of course some Stage9 Lots would be needed, & some proper testing would be needed etc etc.

 

So, any thoughts or feedback you may have on this, is more than welcomed. I would be more than happy to continue spearheading this at the moment, but would like to hear what others may have to say on the matter first.

 

 

[DuskTrooper 314]

Interesting....Very interesting....

Now, for something a bit..out there..what if we could, in combination with this new staging, somehow have a way to control the current stage(via a lot with control panel, the plopping of a special lot, or something)? Therefore, we could have a few progressive stages after S8, as well as a few stages...out there for other purposes, such as controlling the way things grow, etc.

[Tropod 144]

Well Lots (with the LotConfigs) contain a Growth Stage property in them, that effectively does this. And because of how Stages work, they are effectively tied-in/related to density levels to some degree I believe, that is if I understand the whole stages thing properly (did say don't understand the whole stages thing 100% ). If you mean control the current Stage state of a Lot or city size/population in-game while it's running, I doubt that'd be possible. But hey, who knows.

 

[Daeley 46]

from my experience with rewards and growables it seems to me as if the conditions under which a lot is plopped or grown are quite separated from the way a lot functions. This manifests itself most clearly under the fact that all rewards and city exclusion groups are in fact only a restriction on the plop button appeaing in the menu, the lots can still be plopped if the plop tool is accessed. For example, city exclusion group has no effect on growables... they can grow without restriction.

of course, I realise this is contradicted by the fact that residential plops don't have people going out and industrial plops don't generate freight, but considering the fact there are 8 stages for R and C and 3 stages for I, I'd say the number of stages probably isn't hardcoded. Your tests prove this fact anyway. I would be surprised, from a programmer's viewpoint, if there were any lists on stage behavior that have their lenght hardcoded to 3 or 8... it is possible though there are certain behavioral enumerations, but we've already found some in the exemplars so I'd be surprised, again from a programmer's viewpoint, if there would be any concrete behavioral defenitions in the .exe, as it seems they wanted to keep the whole thing extendible.

 

What I'm trying to say is... I'm somewhat instinctively convinced that if you don't find any problems at first sight, it shouldn't have any problems at all.

[timotheus4 39]

Date: 8/7/2005 2:45:34 PM
Author:Tropod

Thanks to phungus420 for suggesting this idea yet again. I've previously looked at this before, but never bothered to actually attempt anything.

quote>

The old coot! HE'S still around?

[Tropod 144]

Apparently so, yeah.

As far as this goes though; personally I don't really have much interest in Stage'X' per se. I just thought I would try it out for the heck of it, see if it was indeed possible or not. Others may have some interest in it. One thing to note: is that the RCI Developer Exemplar files used, some of them are in circulation already in other modds (DMs pathfinding modd & one of Ralpha's modds, if I recall correctly). So if something were to be made in the way of a Stages modd, there may potentially exist conflict issues for some users.

 

[DuskTrooper 314]

Yeah, plus, in Ralph's modd (the anti-dilap one) for some reason, you cannot select a building style in a city, if you started it while the modd is in place. I don't think anyone has ever figured it out. Oh well.

Maybe, to keep things easier, for super stage 8's, we could just make them some sort of growable reward instead, that would require certain high numbers of things before it can grow.

[Teirusu 38]

I myself don't see much of a need for additional stages.  As Tropod stated, the stages are controlled by population size, so there really isn't a way to attach additional prerequisites to a stage like rewards.  Therefore, the Developer will start growing lots assigned to a stage when a set population number is reached.   As DuskTrooper mentioned, we could use them as 'Super 8's' per say... maybe even arcologies?   Heh heh... But nothing much more.

What I think might be more useful, however, is if we could add our own Developers; like R$$$$, residential services (People converting their homes into offices like if they were a lawyer, dentist, accountant-person-thingy, eh stuff like that.  ,  Industrial Warehouses, or CO$$$$.

 

-Teirusu

[RippleJet 36]

When Tropod posted this, I was still only lurking at Simtropolis and learning to mod myself.
This was the post that initiated my interest in what today is known as the Colossus Addon Mod.

It took more than two years from the date of this post to the release of CAM 1.0.
It wasn't quite as simple as just changing the Growth Stage and Stage # vs. Size properties.

Back in 2005 the existing stage 8 buildings were still not upsetting the development simulators the way they have proven to do later on. A lot of the work behind the CAM focused on reinstating the function of the growth stages, with ever increasing densities for each higher stage (just as Tropod said in his second post).

Wouanagaine's "X Tool" has been developed alongside the CAM, and neither of them would have been as thoroughly developed without the other. I owe Wouanagaine a lot for the tool, without which it would have been impossible to create well behaving CAMeLots, with proper growth stages, capacities and all other values.

Finally I want to thank Tropod and Phungus420 for starting this, and I take this opportunity to bump this thread, so that it won't disappear into the hidden eternal archive, which is the fate threads that haven't been bumped for over two years seem to encounter...

~Tage

[RippleJet 36]

Reposting Tropod's first post that was truncated in the crash May 2008:

---

Originally posted by: Tropod

 

Thanks to phungus420 for suggesting this idea yet again. I've previously looked at this before, but never bothered to actually attempt anything.

 

let me be the first to say, I don't fully understand 100% the whole stages thing in the game. With that said, let me be the first to say I have some proof/evidence that Stage8< Buildings are possible.

 

Run down:

SimCity4 Stages:

Following goes over some aspects involved or related to Stages.

Game currently has 8 Stage levels for Residential/Commerical Buildings & 3 for Industrial buildings.

RCI Developer Exemplar files:

The RCI Developer Exemplars contain/control numerous aspects related to the different RCI types, wealths & densities.

Stage Count (0x87CD6360) property:

This looks as though it defines how many stages can exist for a given RCI wealth/type.

Stage # vs. Size (0x87CD636#): This is effectively the main Staging mechanism. And this is a comment from the Ingred.INI file;

;0x87cd6369-0x87cd636f are reserved for additional stages (some info in the Ingred.INI file isn't 100% accurate. Some is completely inaccurate).

This property controls the Stage vs population size growth levels. This property has paired values. First value is the percentage. 2nd value is the population size. As the stage levels increase, the Base size level increases but the upper size level stays the same. The percentages used, for a given population (of the same) level across the different Stage# properties, does seem to be totalled to 100% (though I've not looked at all of them). If the percentage(s) is part of the mechanism or is checked, this may mean the whole Stage system might have to be modified to take this into account if Stage8< were to be done (but not necessarily. I did not have to in order to have what I did work).

Other properties in these RCI Developer files may also have an impact, such as the *Cap properties. Other aspects of the game may also have an influence (Maxis themselves had even suggested ages ago that various aspects are taken into account when calculating Stage level of a Lot). Whether one property has an overriding say in the functionality/validity of another is something I couldn't really elaborate on at the moment, but I dare say the StageCount property does have a say in regards to the Stage vs Size property.

 

Lot Exemplar files (Growables only, obviously):

The Exemplar file containing the LotConfig lines contains the Growth Stage (0x27812837) Property. The value for this property appears to be the same as the last value for the Stage#vsSize property in the Developer Exemplar file. So this looks like it may effectively be the linking mechanism between a Lot & a given Stage level being applied to a Lot.

 

And at the moment, there does not appear to be anymore to it than this. So, the proof....

The following two pics may not look that enticing, but for what I was doing I needed to recognise easily if what I was doing was working (when testing if something is possible, quite often I'll take shortcuts to save on time. It has its pros n cons).

What I have actually done here; instead of trying to have a large population level for what I was testing (which considering, would take some time blah blah etc), I decided to lower the Size requirement of the Stage# vs. Size property. This doesn't necessarily invalidate what I've done (but it may, especially if a particular aspec