World Affairs

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

When it comes to global warming, CH₄ is definitly more devastating.  Methane from the permafrost and that locked in the ocean bottoms could quite easily ramp things up.  I think we are looking at one of the phenomena of nature that indicate that human beings are nothing when it comes to the planetary ecology.

There has been some other idiocy proposed to increase the earth's albedo.  See my thread over in Off Topic.

A little carbon dioxide beside all that methane is a drop in the proverbial bucket.  I suspect that nature will take its course, and that nothing we can do will stop it.  We have had a chance to do the necessary science to be able to get away but we have blown it playing with fire crackers instead of doing some real science.  Now it is too late, so I guess there is no need to go crying to mama, she isn't listening.

Trying to burn off that much methane, converting it into CO₂ and water wouldn't help much, either.  Not only is there danger from the permafrost, but as the ocean warms, it will start releasing its methane as well.

If any remnant of the human race is around in the next millenium, it will be quite a small fraction of the teeming billions we have now.  We have been careless with our home, and now we are finding that we can't live in an environment of our own waste products.  This is a basic law of biology.  After more than two generations on this planet, I, personally, couldn't care less.

[Cobraroll 138]

So now, WikiLeaks have leaked again. This time, things don't look too good for the US either, and Iran apparently has got hold of some fancy North Korean missiles capable of reaching as far as Berlin and Moscov.

What do you think? Game changer, or "oh, nice to know"?

[DocRorlach 25]

Definitely game changer. Previous revelations were interesting, but pretty much just confirmed the morass everyone thought Iraq had become for the UK & the US.

This is a different kettle of fish: Saudis recommending bombing Iran; Belgium offered money to take Guantanamo prisoners; German chancellor made out as an unimaginative dud; and so forth. It is not just the US standing in front of the fan as the wagonload of manur is dumped into the wind, but almost everyone. And all we heard about are a few tidbits so far. Cannot wait for Der Spiegel to come out with the serialized verion of the leaks. They are the biggest muck artists in Europe.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Be careful what what you hear in this fiasco (or read for that matter).  The ones who know the least say the most.  In a security leak of this magnitude, some general mud slinging is to be expected, but how do youi separate the wheat from the chaff.

I can't imagine plain language stuff like this being around.  Haven't these people ever heard of burn bags?  Anything of any importance should have been encoded using the current diplomatic or other codes, which convey exactly nothing to a reader who doesn't have access to the current code book.  We are not talking here about encypherment, but use of code which requires the corresponding book.  In codes you can say quite a lot in one group of, say, five letters.  Of course, any plain language stuff should also be encrypted using a sophisticated encryption algorthm that changes at least daily.

Everyone should have listened to Bob Ashcroft who said "Fire your secretary.  Those papers she keeps filing will hang you out to dry someday."

[DocRorlach 25]

Maybe - but do remember the old adage: whenever we manage to make something idiot-proof, the universe brings forth a bigger idiot. These folks may call themselves "diplomats", but they are just as lazy, fallible, megalomaniac, insecure as the next chap down the corridor. Besides, it is fun watching everyone squirm.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I agree on the squirmology.  The idiocy of keeping such stuff around is the thing that disgusts me.  I expect all this will be broadly entertaining for about the next week.  Kind of like an early Christmas present to everyone who enjoys seeing governments scramble around in a caucus race (Lewis Caroll style).  It is unlikely that any will get very dry.

If the NK's have given Iraq the ability to dump a missle in Moscow, then we need to think about how close Seward's Folly is to Pyongyang.  At that latitude we are not dealing with the 'broad' pacific ocean, and U.S. territory isn't all that far away.  We have to assume that the NK's did not give Iraq their biggest and best ....

Gad!  Right now I am listening to the RCR Pipes and concert band ruining the finale of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.  Aaugh!

Sometimes when I am selecting my playlist for the day, I get a little careless.  That's over, and now I have Peter Siefert in the opening scene of the second art from Beethoven's only opera (Fidelio).  Much more to my taste, even if the poor guy is starving to death.  A rather weak rescue plot, but the music is fabulous.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[clarkjordan12345 108]

I think it's great that wikileaks is sharing all this information, but I think they have a responsibility to hold back some stuff, at least for the moment.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose Everyone should have listened to Bob Ashcroft who said "Fire your secretary.  Those papers she keeps filing will hang you out to dry someday."quote>

Who is this Bob Ashcroft fellow you seem to love so much?  Never heard of him, and he is apprarently not very high-impact or I would be able to differentiate him from the rest of the Bob Ashcrofts of the world (and there are a lot of them).

Barbarossa

quote>

I don't particularly love him, I just like part of his management philosophy.  When I was learning about large scale management about 40 years ago, Bob was all the rage.  He had published a book on his management philosopy.  He was, at one time, the CEO of Avis when they gave Hertz a really bad time in the car rental field.

I also like other management philosophy guys were were around at that time.  Notably, Philip Crosby, ex of NASA and author of "Quality without Tears or How to get things done without hasseling your employees."  The Japanese loved his ideas and put them into effect in a lot of their plants.  But that's another story.

All this is probably somewhat before your time.

Iran?  Iraq?  Who cares.  Let's call it all Persia.  It is further from Tehran to Moscow than Bagdad to Moscow.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

The thing with Iraq is it is now mostly Arabians, not Persians. It also has Kurdish people and the remnants of the Ottomon empire. Baghdad used to be a major city in all 3 empires (Persia, Arabia, and the Ottomon Empire). Iraq also boasts to contain the remains of Mesopotamia. Kuwait's coast, on the other hand, is thought to be the former location of Eden.

By the way, what has been happening in Mexico recently? The news has dwindled.

[Cobraroll 138]

Speaking of Korea...

When all the hassle with North and South is resolved and the Korean War is officially over... do you think the US will leave Korea, and if not, what would China have to say about it?

[DocRorlach 25]

There is not going to be a "Korean War, 2nd edition". Neither China, which would be obliged to step into, nor the US, being under a similar obligation, wants anything like that. Eventually, China will find a way to drop NK and the rest will be talks until the DMZ disapeears and a single Korea emerges. What happened in Germany can happen here, it may just take longer because the internal resistance in NK is nonexistent.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

Iran?  Iraq?  Who cares.  Let's call it all Persia.  It is further from Tehran to Moscow than Bagdad to Moscow.

quote>

Yeah, I think that's for the best. Judging from your politicians and those presidents you and your fellow Americans tend to elect, geography shouldn't be a problem.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[krbe 193]

Canadia? USA? Who cares. Let's call it all Columbia. It is further from Washington to Moscow than Ottawa to Moscow.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

True.  That's why we get along better with Bears.  Especially polar bears.  We were in the same position that Poland occupied in the 1920-1940 time frame.  Between the jaws of a very nasty vice.  During the cold war, things could have been very dicey around here, but it does change your perspective.  We chose to cling to the people we could talk to easily and formed NORAD.  However, as the world spins, the Russians are now in that position, being between China and the rest of us around the pole.

When speaking of the NK's missile capabilities, I think you would find that the coastal cities of Alaska are well within their range and that they are restrained by knowing that there is at least one boomer in the Yellow Sea.

Many people seem to forget about Seward's Folly a lot of the time.  If I wanted to start a world wide conflagration, I'd dump a moderate sized nuke into Nome while making it appear that it came from NK. 

Everyone in the"continental" U.S. tends to think that insurgency targets are centered there.  They didn't think much about Pearl Harbour, either.  It is six days to the day that will 'forever' live in infamy.  Thought about it lately?  From cordite and TNT to fission bombs in only four years.  That's progress for you.  As an observer of history who was alive at the time, I do remember the headlines.  It took about a week for us in Canada to find out were were also at war with Japan.  In a typical knee-jerk reaction we rounded up all our citizens of Japanese extraction on the West coast, disposessed them and interned them in camps in the forest.  In war, stupidity knows no bounds.

[Empowered One 41]

There is a bankrun currently being planned all over Europe on December the 7th.. O_o I'm honestly intrigued to what effect this might have if people actually do this.

EDIT: Found a vid related to this 'event':

[iowndiscti 141]

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

[.

Iran?  Iraq?  Who cares.  Let's call it all Persia.  It is further from Tehran to Moscow than Bagdad to Moscow.

quote>

oh I see you want another war on your hands 

people of the middle east feel obligated to " represent" the areas and make a well put forth effort to stand out from other countries in the surrounding areas [this is from my personal experience, I didn’t realize there was much difference between someone who’s Persian, and someone who’s Arabian until I went to an predominantly middle eastern college]. Calling anyone from the Middle East Persian, when in fact they're not Persian would be most unwise.

although technically we could break the whole area up into two distinct areas called arabiya and Persia, 

Persia would consist of:

 Afghanistan, Pakistan + anything that touches the Caspian sea and is considered a part of middle Asia

while arabiya would consist of:

Anything that is north African or is part of Middle Asia, and touches the Mediterranean or red sea [includes some parts of southern turkey]

this is just my definition of the two regions though 

[DocRorlach 25]

Originally posted by: afstandopleren

There is a bankrun currently being planned all over Europe on December the 7th.. O_o I'm honestly intrigued to what effect this might have if people actually do this.

quote>

Ineffectual and ultimately counter productive since the collaps of banks is what ultimately caused Black Friday.

Instead, I think much more of this is needed: UK Uncut - forcing corporations to pay what they owe (Kraft, which just bought Cadbury earlier this year, is planning to move the UK company largely to Switzerland, to avoid the £200 million in UK taxes). See also this..

Fix the whole in the public budget caused by tax dodgers and you go a long way towards fixing the deficit and thus in turn fix part of the man-made recession

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

First, Mesopotamia:  The whole region used to be part of a much bigger Persian Empire.  Unfortunately, Farsi speakers, who are the real remainder of the Persians are not prolific enough to keep a national identity going.  The entire area has been taken over by the later Arabic speaking relicts of the Moorish Empire and of the later Ottoman Empire which fell less than 100 years ago.  Frankly, I abhor war, but if these guys want to fight it out among themselves, we need to do a full-scale arms embargo, and let the fire burn itself out.

Now, about banks:  Whoever dreamed up this idea was clearly abusing some denigrated substance.  If the European banks collapsed, all that will happen is everyone in Europe will be very soon unemployed and in general want.  Setting up a thing like this, if it happens, will be like committing a little bit of suicide.  The world will go on, and the post-great-war conditions will prevail in Europe.  I am sure the people who are planning this atrocity were not around then, but some of us, including I, were.  We remember the privation and the difficulties that resuted from the NAZI hegemony and its aftermath.  It seems there is always someone in Europe who pines for the dark ages.  Fools!

Doc is right.  The problem with the financial system is that it allows tax dodgers.  The tax laws have so many loopholes they resemble a block of Emmenthaler.  If the taxes that have been "deferred" by whatever mechanism were collected, many governments that are on the verge of collapse financially would be much better off.  It is time to put the brakes on such corporate chicanery.  Of course, the rosy picture of the corporations would then show some bad spots.  Taxes represent capital to corporations when they owe more than they have in their treasury.  Governments should not participate in the credit bubble.  Time to stick a pin in it.

[mightygoose 92]

mesopotamia discussion belongs in the mesopotamia thread XD

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: DocRorlach

Instead, I think much more of this is needed: UK Uncut - forcing corporations to pay what they owe (Kraft, which just bought Cadbury earlier this year, is planning to move the UK company largely to Switzerland, to avoid the £200 million in UK taxes). See also this..

Fix the whole in the public budget caused by tax dodgers and you go a long way towards fixing the deficit and thus in turn fix part of the man-made recession

quote>

So, what do you propose? Forbidding companies from moving out of the country?

Moving locations to avoid taxes is an age old tactic. You see this even in SimCity. Raise taxes, you drive people away from your city. Lower them, you attract people. If you have companies fleeing the UK to avoid paying the taxes, that means your taxes are too high. Lower them and the companies will come back.

[DocRorlach 25]

Might we not better call it "Mess-O-Potamia"? Let's face the facts here: until Islam manages to churn its way through its ongoing reformation, peace in that area will be elusive. One has to bear in mind that as religions go, Islam is as fractured as Christianity, with just about every mullah laying claim to the "right" path to salvation. Iran, internally, is a mess and only slightly less so than Iraq. The only reson we hear more about Iraq is because "we" are there. The Saudis and the gulf states have every reason to fear it - they would certainly lose the Cartier corners and all the other rich trimmings oil has brought them. But it will fall from within, not from without, it will simply take time. Any antagonistic moves on it from the west are only going to delay that inevitable tumble of the current leadership.

Meanwhile, here's some more on the tax protesters: seems these guys are onto something. And I believe there is a similar movement in the US of A, albeit coming from the corner of Warren Buffet & Cie.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Clearly the days of having fat cats in the cabinet are numbered.  If it is government by the people maybe a means test is needed for candidates.  Any candidate making more than double the average wage should be excluded?  You'ld soon have a poor man's government, but who says it would be worse or better than what you've got now?

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Interesting.

[mightygoose 92]

remember half the problems in the middle east were exascerbated when the allies came up with the Partition Plan for Palestine in 1948....

[DocRorlach 25]

Originally posted by: mightygoose

remember half the problems in the middle east were exascerbated when the allies came up with the Partition Plan for Palestine in 1948....quote>

Half? I'd say all of them. Let's get it right: the creation of Israel byt the British & the allies was basically borne out of guilt over Britain's pre-war gloss-over and near acceptance of Hitler's Germany. Moreover, just about everyone feared that with the end of WW2 and the American need to rebuild the devastation that was Europe, a backlash would occur if the freed Jewish people did not have somewhere to go - preferably far from central Europe, where nearly all countries had espoused some form of anit-semitism long before Hitler put it into action. Resentment against this particular ethnic group goes way back - Shakespeare did not invent the Merchant of Venice, he "reported" what was then a common sentiment.

Finally, Britain needed to retain control of the Suez Canal, ever thinking that the empire might be resurrected if only the trade routes remained in London's greedy hands. Creating an ally in that region was part of that idea. Basically the allies lit the fuse that fires up explosions to this day.

[mightygoose 92]

i don't know i think the jews and the muslims were fighting over jerusalem long before the League of Nations lol

[DocRorlach 25]

Actually, they were not. But the Christians and the Muslims were. As always.