Official Simtroplis Gulf Oil Spill Thread

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Let's face it.  This is a completely new situation that they didn't even think could happen.  Now that it has, they have a really tough engineering problem on their hands, and can't put their hands on anyone who has even the faintest glimmer of a solution.  Before anyone gets approval of another drilling lease at these depths, there had better be some serious research done on whether such a catastrophe can ever be fixed.  This problem is looking for a solution, but, so far, no one has really come to the plate with a positive answer. 

Too many maybes and coulda, woulda, shoulda's.  As for BP, they just happened to be the guys who got to carry the can.  It could have been any of those companies in similar drilling situations.  The Canadian Coast Guard is working on a contingency plan to "ameliorate the situation" if there should happen to be a similar blowout in the arctic.  With that much oil in the Arctic Ocean, that fragile ecology will be denuded of many species that the world depends on, like salmon and cod, and it would probably nearly if not totally wipe out the wild beluga whales and narwhals. 

I feel for the Gulf coast fishermen.  They are bearing the brunt of this disaster and the hurricane season is on.  Will New Orleans become a ghost town?  It has had enough troubles over the last while to want to fold, and go someplace else.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: Duke87

What I don't get is why the refusal to let outher countries help out.

quote>

aparently there is something called  The Jones Act.

which pretty much  requires vessels transporting goods between states to have been built in the United States, be crewed and owned by U.S. citizens and fly the U.S. flag.

But also this  may have been a one sided view or rumor spread by a site called Voice of America

who seem to have some sort of agenda.

this is the only article i can frind froma reputable new source thet mentions it.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9GDOL9O0.htm

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Present for you.  I got this on the first hit.  Link to Wiki on the Jones Act.

First passed in 1920, this 90-year old piece of legislation is typical of marine law in general.  I think the summary is pretty clear, but there is lots of detail for those who would be detailed.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

Present for you.  I got this on the first hit.  Link to Wiki on the Jones Act.

First passed in 1920, this 90-year old piece of legislation is typical of marine law in general.  I think the summary is pretty clear, but there is lots of detail for those who would be detailed.

quote>

i found that too but it didnt explain why they would insist on its being upheld in a disaster situation.

Seems Voice of America may have been not telling the whole story of why or how a dutch company was temperaraly restricted on sending thier ship to help clean up surface oil.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Latest flap:  BP CEO goes back to England to race his yacht.

This is stupid on the part of the press.  The guy is the CEO, and he gives the directions, which, I am sure, are being carried out by his people at BP.  He is a Brit, and doesn't need to be on scene every second.  Besides, he has other interests and avocations.  If I had a 52 foot yacht in an Isle of Wight race, I would damned well want to be there.  This is a huge investment, some needed recreation, and I need a break.

Lay off!  The next thing you'll want to know is the state of his lower intestines.

EDIT:  Oh! and Happy Father's Day.

[morriswalters 16]

A lot of people in the Gulf would like to use their boats to recreate too.  It's not about how it is, it's about how it looks.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Originally posted by: morriswalters

A lot of people in the Gulf would like to use their boats to recreate too.  It's not about how it is, it's about how it looks.

quote>

And who would have known if it were not for scandal-mongering reporters.  Damn it!  Even this chap deserves some privacy.  "Sailing, sailing, over the slimy oil ..."  The meter actually fits.

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

Latest flap:  BP CEO goes back to England to race his yacht.

This is stupid on the part of the press.  The guy is the CEO, and he gives the directions, which, I am sure, are being carried out by his people at BP.  He is a Brit, and doesn't need to be on scene every second.  Besides, he has other interests and avocations.  If I had a 52 foot yacht in an Isle of Wight race, I would damned well want to be there.  This is a huge investment, some needed recreation, and I need a break.

Lay off!  The next thing you'll want to know is the state of his lower intestines.quote>

The problem is, despite the relative size and power of BP, the company management continues to make the same mistakes over and over again, coupled with a seeming inability to understand how to properly manage a crisis and project the image of an organization that screwed up, understands that they screwed up, and is now sincerely working to rectify the mistake.

There are rules for how to properly manage a public crisis, and BP has been screwing up all over the place with regards to those rules.  How long did it take Tony Hayward and company to get to Washington DC?  Successfully managing a public crisis requires public visibility, which they were not quick enough to provide.  Then there are the verbal mistakes that top BP management has made.  Hayward wants his life back, ignoring the millions of "small people" (thanks Svanberg) who are suffering worse than Hayward ever will.  Millions of individuals are watching their lives and family traditions be potentially destroyed forever and he's out watching his yacht race.  Hayward also called the leak fairly insignificant, which makes one wonder how much he really cares beyond its impact on company expense sheets.  How many times has BP tried and failed to plug the leak, all the while the flow rate estimates keep going up?  BP says Hayward is being removed from management of the oil spill, but then BP does next to nothing to explain who is going to take things over in his absence.  (And hasn't "Who's in charge?" been a big question of late?)  What's being seen by the public is a company that cares about it's profit margins, but not the millions that are being affected by the incident. Whether they deserve privacy or not, BP directors are going to be under the most intense scrutiny of their lives; they should know this, and they should have enough brains to realize that they need to be very careful on how they step as the public is more than ready to crucify them for this disaster.

[morriswalters 16]

If he wishes to remain private he should do private things, such as not being in a yacht race.  The clean water that he slices through during his race is a direct reminder of what people in the Gulf no longer have.  However, my sympathy button can't be pushed in any case.  He has been and is still being, well compensated.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, I wouldn't call the waters around the Isle of Wight unpolluted.  It is in the English Channel, you know, full of rusting hulks, oil slicks, etc.

I was feeling sorry for Hayward, after all, he has been grilled on both sides and turned over a couple of times.  The grill marks must be crosshatched by now, but he seems to be made of teflon.  If the U.S. manages to throw him in jail, then I would consider some for of justice may have been done.

[Empowered One 41]

Judge who overturned drilling moratium reported owning stock in drilling companies

Seems suspicious....and definately doesn't make him unbiased...

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Originally posted by: afstandopleren

Judge who overturned drilling moratium reported owning stock in drilling companies

Seems suspicious....and definately doesn't make him unbiased...

quote>

Well, let's see if I can make a live link out of that.

No soap.  I got:

Article not found or expired on Yahoo! News

Looks rather like this is not a good source for links.

---

Anyway, he should be ripped off the bench and disbarred.  He should have disqualified himself from the case.  You want to know what's wrong with electing judges??

[Empowered One 41]

Can't say I'm surprised. I had some another source, but that one was (strangely) removed as well. I still have the translated to dutch version tho as this news reached our media as well, so I'm going to do a very poor attempt at translating.

Source: http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/article1393147.ece/Rechter_nietigverklaring_boorverbod_heeft_belang_in_olieindustrie

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AMSTERDAM - De Amerikaanse rechter die dinsdag het tijdelijke verbod op olieboringen op zee nietig verklaarde, heeft zelf financiële belangen in de olieindustrie. Dat blijkt uit financiële rapporten uit 2008.

De rechter, Martin Feldman, had in dat jaar onder andere voor minder dan 15 duizend dollar aan aandelen in Transocean Ltd, het bedrijf dat eigenaar is van het gezonken boorplatform Deepwater Horizon. Door een explosie op dat platform kwamen elf mensen om het leven, en ontstond het olielek in de Golf van Mexico dat is uitgegroeid tot de grootste milieuramp in de geschiedenis van de Verenigde Staten.

Daarnaast bezat Feldman belangen in ten minste acht andere olie- en gasbedrijven. De rapporten uit 2008 zijn de meest recente die beschikbaar zijn. Of hij de aandelen nog steeds in zijn bezit heeft, is niet duidelijk. Feldman wilde niet reageren op de onthullingen.

Hij is overigens niet de enige rechter in de regio met bezittingen in de olie- en gassector. Sommige hebben besloten geen recht te spreken in olieklek-gerelateerde zaken om de schijn van belangenverstrengeling te voorkomen, anderen hebben om die reden hun aandelen verkocht.

Vliegtuigen

De rechter verklaarde dinsdag het moratorium op nieuwe zeeboringen nietig, omdat de maatregel 'lijkt aan te nemen dat aangezien één platform faalde - en niemand nog precies weet waarom - alle bedrijven en platformen die nieuwe bronnen dieper dan 170 meter aanboren een duidelijk en onmiddellijk gevaar vormen'. Dat was volgens de rechter niet het geval. Hij gaf als argument dat ook niet alle vliegtuigen gevaarlijk zijn, als er een neerstort. Bovendien zouden de negatieve gevolgen voor het lokale bedrijfsleven te groot zijn.

De Amerikaanse regering kondigde meteen na de uitspraak aan met een nieuw boorverbod te komen. Het moratorium is volgens de regering noodzakelijk om nader onderzoek te kunnen doen naar olieboringen op zee en om eventueel extra veiligheidsvoorschriften op te stellen. Door het verbod zijn 33 booreilanden stil komen te liggen.

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AMSTERDAM - The American judge that nullified(?) the temporary drill stop at see last tuesday,  has personal financial intrests in the oilindustry. This was discovered in financial reports from 2008.

The judge, Martin Feldman, had in that year, for example, for a little less then 15 thousand dollar in stocks in  Transocean Ltd, the  company that owns the sunken oilrig Deepwater Horizon. Due to an explosion on that platform, 11 people were killed and caused the oilstain in the Gulf of Mexico that has grown to be the largest envoiremental disaster in the known history of the united states.

He also has shares in atleast 8 other oil- and gas companies. The reports from 2008 are the most recent availble reports on this matter. If he still has the shares, isn't clear. Feldman didn't want to respond to this reveal.

He also doesn't appear to be the only judge in the region that has shares in the oil- and gas sector. Some have decided not to judge in oilspill related cases to prevent situations or appearences of personal involvemend(?) while others actually have sold their shares to prevent exactly that from happening.

The judge declared the moration last tuesday void(?) because the meassurement 'seems to assume that because 1 rig failed - for reasons still unknown - all companies and platforms that search new oil sources deeper then 170 meters are an immediate threat or danger(?)'. This was according to the judge not the case. He also gave the arguement on the matter that not all airplanes are dangerous when one crashes. Not only that, it would have a too big negative effect on the local economy/buisness.

The American gouvernment announced immediately after the nullification(?) to come with a new request to stop the drilling. The moratium is nescesary according to the gouvernment to conduct further investigation to what effects oil drilling at see might have so extra or better safety precausions can be made. By making it forbidden, 33 oilrigs would have to stop drilling.

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Well, there you have it. It's been a while since I've made such an appeal on my English skills (or lack there of) so I chose a smaller article about it. There are some other Dutch sources that go more indepth about this but my head would prolly split open trying to translate it.

I;ve also notcied that when I google the oilspill, alot of links have started to refer to BP's explanation as to why or how it happened. Seems there is much unbiased information left on the net that way if you want to steer clear of so called 'conspiracy' sites. Also how do I make links on this forum? the standard thing doesn't seem to work here.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

One thing about the Internet is that it is hard to suppress something once it is on the web.  Censors beware!

[Duke87 1,070]

So, am I the only one that thinks this drilling "moratorium" is a stupid idea?

I mean, this huge-ass oil slick has already put all the fishermen out of work. Now we're going to put all the oil rig workers out of work, too? Yeah, that'll do wonders for the economy.

I thought we wanted to create jobs?

[Barbarossa 51]

.

  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[hym 358]

Not to pick on anyone, but since it has been said that BP doesn't know what it's doing in regards to the oil spill, I'm going to add in some info that I learned recently.  Publicly, BP is the one trying to kill the oil spill.  In reality, while BP, Halliburton, and Transocean executives are pointing fingers at each other, they are all working out of BP's Houston HQ.  Furthermore, BP has requested the technical expertise of Shell and ExxonMobil, and both have sent huge chunks of their engineering work force.  (In case you're wondering, I had to opportunity to talk with an engineering buddy who has a direct connection with a BP employee who works in the company's Houston HQ.  This man was also a project manager for the Deepwater Horizon rig.)

If people are going to accuse BP of having no idea what it's doing with regards to stopping the oil spill, then they have to pretty much accuse the entire industry of not having a clue, unless you want to believe that every oil professional involved suddenly forgot everything he knows and was then immediately assigned to help solve the catastrophe.  Much more likely is the proposition that what we're facing isn't merely an oil spill, but that the well itself is damaged, which changes everything.

When BP's "top kill" effort failed, it indicated that something was wrong with the well other than just an uncontrolled leak out of the well head.  Top kills are fairly straightforward procedures and shouldn't fail unless something goes wrong while the procedure is being executed or if there is something else wrong with the well.  BP said that the mud and concrete all came leaking back out, which suggests damage in places other than just at the blow out preventer.  Furthermore, there are ROV video clips of what appears to be oil leaking out of the ocean floor, suggesting that the well itself is structurally compromised, and possibly in danger of collapse.

I'd post some more but I need to head off to class.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

Wow! I did not know that BP was responsible for the refinery "accident" as well!

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I agree that the oil industry in general has a real genuine cat's ass trophy on its hands.  They are either not giving us all the facts or they don't know them.  Maybe the whole oil pool has somehow been released, and they are scrambling to find out what to do next.  On the other hand, maybe the whole well-head is so damaged that only a massive blast of some kind can ever close it.  However, a big blast might just free the entire oil dome into the sea.  I have no doubt that they are clearly between a rock and a hard place while no political pressure of any kind can be helpful.

[joshriddle 29]

Originally posted by: A Nonny Moose

 I have no doubt that they are clearly between a rock and a hard place while no political pressure of any kind can be helpful.

quote>

Political pressure has never helped this thing. Obama's little thing saying he's raging mad, well, to me I think is totally unnecessary. Besides, really Obama wasn't mad at BP at first, that is until everyone got mad at him for not getting mad at BP. So really I think all the fuming at the company needs to stop.

Also, just to let you know, ugh. A tropical storm is on the way for the Gulf Of Mexico. Heaven knows that I will be keeping an eye on it, just to see all the oil spread around and get worse and nasty.

But you know, I don't think this is going to be resolved any time soon. The oil will keep flooding the gulf probably throughout the hurricane season, and then it may calm down, but then you will have a brown Gluf Of Mexico.

Also heard that is starting to wash up on Florida, and may even sweep by North Carolina due to the Gulf Stream. All of this is very interesting and will continue to follow other peoples knowledge that they post here.

hym: I personally think that BP didn't plan right for the "top kill" thing. But the well more than likely did play a role in it. Besides, this new thing, with the concrete and golf balls, then you have golf balls sitting in the middle of the ocean. That is a risk to the local birds and wildlife there as well in my opinion.

[Empowered One 41]

Here is a vid I came across about some of the beaches. Some weird stuff has been washing ashore and it's not oil.

Prolly something from that Correct's-it stuff they'e been dumping for cosmetic money reasons. I've also heard about an oily rain somewhere in the US. Can someone confirm this to be true?

I got this vid from a friend, however I haven't seen the movie so I can't tell wether it's real or fake. PLease let it be fake.

[joshriddle 29]

I won't let me see the video. It may have recently uploaded and needs to process it says.

But imagine what could turn out to be a hurricane in the Gulf? Wow. I guess the gulf is going to be a mess after this hurricane season.

And trust me. This aint going to be no ordinary hurricane season, like last year, where there was only 1 tropical storm and a depression. This is going to be more like 2008. So yes indeed, BP really has a big mess on their hands, one they don't take too seriously, in my opinion.

[Empowered One 41]

Oh this is weird. I watched them before I uploaded them. Even when right-clicking them to watch them on youtube I get the same message! I'mah trying something different.

EDIT: Fixed the vids! made some error during the pasting proces making the vids turn out that way. -.-'

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: afstandopleren

Here is a vid I came across about some of the beaches. Some weird stuff has been washing ashore and it's not oil.

Prolly something from that Correct's-it stuff they'e been dumping for cosmetic money reasons.quote>

Oil dispersants aren't just cosmetic. The idea is thus: oil, being organic, is biodegradable. By applying disperdants, you break up clumps of it and spread it out. In doing so, you increase the surface area to volume ratio, and the bacteria that break it down can do so faster. So yes, they are actually doing something helpful!

I got this vid from a friend, however I haven't seen the movie so I can't tell wether it's real or fake. PLease let it be fake.quote>

Well, IMDB does have an entry for Knowing. 2008, though, not 2009.

And the clip you posted may very well be from that movie. So what? Movies involve ficticious news stories all the time. Think of all the movies and TV shows that have ever been made, and all the stories they've featured. There must have been hundereds, if not thousands of ficticious news stories that have appeared in movies and TV shows in the past five years alone. That one of them ended up resembling a real news story from a later date isn't an odd cooincidence at all. In fact, it's statistically quite likely.

[joshriddle 29]

Originally posted by: Duke87

Well, IMDB does have an entry for Knowing. 2008, though, not 2009.

And the clip you posted may very well be from that movie. So what? Movies involve ficticious news stories all the time. Think of all the movies and TV shows that have ever been made, and all the stories they've featured. There must have been hundereds, if not thousands of ficticious news stories that have appeared in movies and TV shows in the past five years alone. That one of them ended up resembling a real news story from a later date isn't an odd cooincidence at all. In fact, it's statistically quite likely.

quote>

To me that last one is just a myth. Really I don't see how a movie could fotell the future. So yes, that movie has nothing to do with it really.

And that first one, it was definately oil washing up on shore

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Well, the sauce is brewing off Yucatan.  NOAA's site says it that it is a 70% chance of becoming a tripical depression within the next 48 hours.  They are making evacuate the rigs noises.

[joshriddle 29]

The tropical depression I heard may develop into a tropical storm later on. Hopefully it won't become hurricane force.

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

The gulf is hot enough, and if other conditions are right, it should be a Category 1 Hurricane by Monday or Tuesday.  There is another depression developing behind it too.  Hope they don't get together.

[morriswalters 16]

There is some speculation the surface oil may in itself dampen the storm though a reduction evaporation.

[joshriddle 29]

Well, then you have all of that oil all loosened up and it can spread even further. So really I think BP has ruined our gulf.

I don't have it right now, but I saw some picture of someone, well, he she threw a giant "mudcake" at one of BP's gas stations. I wish I still had the picture. That is how mad people are getting at BP I guess. And look at this:

Imagine that stuff everywhere! And also, what is that glowing thing there?