Official Simtroplis Gulf Oil Spill Thread

[morriswalters 16]

I normally believe in solving the problem before you get out the rope to hang people, but to not have a contingency place for the failure of a BOP is criminal.  All complex machines will fail sooner or later.  BOP's have failed before and will fail again.  So they should have planned for it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

What do we really know about the geology of the sea floor at the site?  What depth is the petroleum bed below the sea floor?  Can it be sealed with, say, a big explosive charge without doing irreversable nasties to the whole area?

Murphy's Law is in full operation in this incident.  In particular, the first part of the law which states "If it can happen, it will".  Contingency planning is one thing, but diaster planning is a whole new ball game.  Disaster planning is usually done by governments.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[pagenotfound 53]

i dont think sticking explosives down there is a good idea... yes the Russians have use nukes to seal UNDERGROUND oil wells, by collapsing the rock on top of them as boggy said. Sticking explosive directly into the leak would lead to a pretty big boom.

As for the geology of the area.... you have obviously salt domes that trap oil in structures called diapirs. The gulf of Mexico once was a giant salt pan in the Jurassic as Pangaea fell apart. This is where the Louann Salt comes from. Without salt domes, you would not have oil there.

[morriswalters 16]

One might assume that BP knows quite a bit about the geology of the seafloor in that area.  After all BP found oil and drilled a well there.  They don't spend that much money not understanding the geology of the location.  However using a nuke to seal the well is the sort of Hail Mary thing you try when your out of other options.  The use of a nuke to do the dirty deed would put the US in a tricky political position.  This new capture strategy is probably the best idea they've had yet.  If you can't stop the leak control it to minimize the damage.

[Empowered One 41]

They are already doing that by covering the oil with a chemical called Corexit (no, the name correct's-it isn't a pun) that gives a cosmetic solution but actually is having nasty 'side'effects asswel. >_> It's all about the money DUH.

I also red in today's newspaper that this plan called 'Topkill' was going to start but in fact, I hear from other sources that the projects has already failed meaning that the mainstream media is way behind on the story of what's actually going on.

Don't know if anyone has seen this but...

[sneakeypete 16]

Ooookay... so because a contractor has an event that bypasses something like 3 (of their) safety systems, and then they have a situation that noone ever thought plusable before, its BP's fault and we should boycott them. By that example, i presume your going to boycott all bloody oil companies? they're just as bad..

[drudruenos 0]

I don't understand why this is BP's fault, after all, it was americans working for an american company on an american oil rig. Sorry for my ignorance, i know nothing about how this works but how comes it's bp's fault?

[Duke87 1,070]

People like having a "big evil corporation" to hate on in response to things. You can't boycott the workers on the rig. You can't boycott Transocean. BP may not deserve blame but they are the most convenient target for it to anyone left of center. Those right of center will of course target the Obama administration, basically for the same reasons.

But really, both are equally silly. As I said before, nobody really deserves blame here... but that isn't acceptable answer to the general populace. People have an emotional need to target their outrage at something.

[morriswalters 16]

Originally posted by: Duke87

People like having a "big evil corporation" to hate on in response to things. You can't boycott the workers on the rig. You can't boycott Transocean. BP may not deserve blame but they are the most convenient target for it to anyone left of center. Those right of center will of course target the Obama administration, basically for the same reasons.

But really, both are equally silly. As I said before, nobody really deserves blame here... but that isn't acceptable answer to the general populace. People have an emotional need to target their outrage at something.

quote>

Accidents always have causes, and are almost always preventable.  Speaking generally there is a chain of events that lead to an accident, break any link and it may not happen. But regardless of the specific cause BP is responsible, any other interpretation flies in the face of the facts.  BP commissioned the well, BP would have profited(and still may) from developing the field.  They wanted the profits so they assumed the risk.  Others may share liability, but they worked for BP.  This is not that complex.  This is what their profits have bought for them(roughly 6 Billion this quarter).  John Q Public shares the responsibility in the sense that he wishes to pursue a way of life centered around hydrocarbons.  This is what you get with that lifestyle. 

[Duke87 1,070]

There is a difference between responsibility and blame. Yes, obviously BP is responsible for dealing with the problem and paying for the damages, just as the government is responsible for managing the mess.

But neither can be blamed because neither did anything negligent that directly lead to this.

BP is not responsible for the well leaking any more than the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey was responsible for the World Trade Center collapsing.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

There is enough blame to go around, but let's look at the responsibilities.

BP's responsibility is as owner, but they delegated this to:

The captain of the ship, which happens to be an oil rig but it is still a ship.  As captain his word may be next to God's, but the responsibility for every soul on board and the safety of his ship rests with him.  That's why the captain is always the ultimate authority at sea.  It is also the reason the captain is lonely as he can have no friends in the crew.

There need be no further finger pointing.  The captain delegates various duties, but the buck stops in the captain's cabin.  One of the worst features of the human angst is the desire to point multiple fingers.  I have no doubt that in the end the cause of this problem will be some supplier who shipped a defective part, knowingly or not, and his lack of proper quality assurance.  The supplier will try and palm it off on some engineer for not doing a proper design job or something equally mundane, but none of this matters.  The responsibility is the captain's and his alone.  The only thing that BP can be faulted for is its choice of the captain and if one of the other contractors in the this matter actually approved and hired the captain, BP is home free.  Have some sympathy for the captain who, unless he is very tough, is probably considering a new career as a tour guide in the Gobi desert.

[morriswalters 16]

Blame and responsibility are interchangeable in this context.  Negligence is a legal term, meaning the failure to use reasonable care.  We can say nothing about this since there is no cause which has been determined.  N_O_Body I believe, although I am not certain, that the reasoning your using  only applies if the case is adjudicated in Maritime Court.  The owner of the drilling vessel appealed to have the case heard there since there would be a cap on liability of approximately 23 million.

In any case, I don't hate BP.  And I think we have to drill.  But before we end up here again everybody better get a plan together.  The investigations into the Shuttle failures are the example of what we should do.  Identify the problems, identify the fixes.  Implement the fixes and go back to work.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Newest Plan from yesterday

The approach now underway is called the Lower Marine Riser Package Cap

which involves cuting the remains of pipe with a robot , i suppose to get  clean edge to cap it properly.

New Cap

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes

Newest Plan from yesterday

The approach now underway is called the Lower Marine Riser Package Cap

which involves cuting the remains of pipe with a robot , i suppose to get  clean edge to cap it properly.

New Cap

quote>

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

By Ben Nuckols and Jane Wardell (CP) – 1 hour ago

PORT FOURCHON, La. — British Petroleum lost billions more in market value Tuesday when shares fell steeply in the first trading day since the company failed yet again to plug the worst oil spill in U.S. history, as investors realized the best chance to stop the leak was months away and there was no end in sight to the cleanup.quote>

See, I said to sell it short!  This whole thing is looking more and more like an unstoppable natural disaster.  See what happens when little Jack sticks in his thumb?  Hmmm?

Originally posted by: morriswalters

In any case, I don't hate BP.  And I think we have to drill.  But before we end up here again everybody better get a plan together.  The investigations into the Shuttle failures are the example of what we should do.  Identify the problems, identify the fixes.  Implement the fixes and go back to work.

quote>

And this is the adult way of looking at it.  Instead of a panic, just get to work and fix it.

[Easy Bakes 253]

The Daliy Show had some good ideas to stop the leak

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-1-2010/the-spilling-fields

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

NOAA Huricane Center at Miami is saying that the disturbance off the Yucatan Peninsula has a very low chance of devloping into a hurricane in the next 48 hours.

The hurricane season is underway, and a big one in the Gulf of Mexico will have interesting and probably tragic repercussions on the oil spill stopping and/or recovery efforts.  Let's all keep fingers crossed.  Religious please pray.

[Duke87 1,070]

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

@Duke87: Brilliant! Giggle. Since there is no attribution I assume this is your original art.

An FAE would also broil all the catfish.

[Duke87 1,070]

...seriously?

I shouldn't need to explain to anyone that this is xkcd. That's like needing to explain what Star Wars is.

[Jorganza 0]

Originally posted by: Duke87

...seriously?

I shouldn't need to explain to anyone that this is xkcd. That's like needing to explain what Star Wars is.

quote>

Yes, because xkcd has been around for over 30, has spawned an entire fictitious universe that is embraced by millions over the globe, has become a part of our pop culture and is known and beloved by almost everyone. Yep, xkcd in a nutshell...

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: Jorganza

Originally posted by: Duke87

...seriously?

I shouldn't need to explain to anyone that this is . That's like needing to explain what Star Wars is.

quote>

Yes, because xkcd has been around for over 30, has spawned an entire fictitious universe that is embraced by millions over the globe, has become a part of our pop culture and is known and beloved by almost everyone. Yep, xkcd in a nutshell...

quote>

Never heard of it.

[morriswalters 16]

Duke , I salute you.  I knew registering here was a good idea.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Thanks for the new bookmark.

[morriswalters 16]

www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/us/03nuke.html  So much for the nuclear option.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Agreed.  Nukes are out for the simple political reason is that deploying a nuke for any reason is a bad example.

[Ocram's Razr 964]

UPDATE: A second plume has been discovered after the cap and capture project started collecting 1/2 of the oil.

Oil and tar globs appearing on Florida beached.

Hurricane season has started.

Oil prices soar.

BP stocks plummet.

Links will be added upon request.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: Ilikeseattle

Oil prices soar.quote>

Um... oil is at $70.92/bbl at the moment. Down 52 cents today.

As for a second plume... interesting, care to elaborate?

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Its all over the news.  The glub, glub has turned into a glip, glip.