Google reports China-based attack, pullout possible?

[simcity4fan12 13]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/01/12/google.china/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

Wow, I just noticed this on Google and thought it would be interesting to share....

[fukuda 351]

"We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China," Drummond's statement reads.quote>

Dohohoho

Let's see how China deals with this

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Interesting. Any hint that the attacks are official?

[Eʟᴇᴍᴇɴᴛ 273]

"We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all.quote>

Wow, looks like the chinese government has a tough descision to make. 

Un-censor google or have no google at all.

[sneakeypete 16]

hardly tough, as by what i've read google has a relativly small share (in the search engine area)

[Frankie B 2]

Indeed, only about a third of the market.

They have already stopped filtering and Chinese people are now free to access information on Tibet, Tienanmen Square, banned political groups etc etc.

I'm fully supportive of their decision and it would appear the attack and email account hacking was indeed directed by Beijing. I can't say I'm at all surprised though.

Google 'may pull out of China after Gmail cyber attack'

Peter Barron from Google: ''We should no longer agree to censor our results in China''

Internet giant Google has said it may end its operations in China following a "sophisticated and targeted" cyber attack originating from the country.

The company did not accuse the Chinese government directly, but said it was no longer willing to censor its Chinese search engine - google.cn.

This could result in closing the site, and its Chinese offices, Google said.

The top executive of its Chinese rival Baidu called the move "hypocritical" and financially motivated.

Google said the e-mail accounts of Chinese human rights activists were the primary target of the attack, which occurred in December.

The search engine has now said it will hold talks with the government in the coming weeks to look at operating an unfiltered search engine within the law in the country, though no changes to filtering had yet been made.

Google launched google.cn in 2006, agreeing to some censorship of the search results, as required by the Chinese government.

It currently holds around a third of the Chinese search market, far behind Baidu with more than 60%.

Email targeted

In a blog post announcing its decision, Google's chief legal officer David Drummond said: "A primary goal of the attackers was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists."

Some Google shareholders... will see this as a commercial example of cutting off your nose to spite your face Robert Peston, BBC business editor Peston: Google's puzzling logic The Google v China face-off Google v China: Battle of the blogs Read the official Google blog

The company said its investigation into the attack found two accounts of its online mail service - Gmail - appeared to have been accessed.

However, the attack was limited to accessing account information such as the date the account was created and subject line, rather than e-mail content, it said.

It said it had also discovered that the accounts of dozens of US, China and Europe-based Gmail users, who are "advocates of human rights in China", appeared to have been "routinely accessed by third parties".

It said these accounts had not been accessed through any security breach at Google, but "most likely via phishing scams or malware placed on users' computers".

At least 20 other large companies from a wide range of businesses were similarly targeted, it added.

'Makes me sick'

In a blog, the chief architect of Baidu said Google's decision to quit was for financial reasons, rather than a human rights issue, as Google had failed to dominate the Chinese search market.

"What Google said makes me sick," he said. "If you are to quit for the sake of financial interest, then just say it."

ANALYSIS Chris Hogg, BBC News, Shanghai   The Chinese authorities will be infuriated that Google has announced publicly it's considering whether to pull out of the country, before negotiations with officials get under way. The assumption has always been that the China market is too big to walk away from. Foreign firms accept the difficult commercial conditions, the tough competition, government interference or censorship because the prize is worth it. Send us your comments

Google's decision to concede to China's demands on censorship in 2006 led to accusations it had betrayed its company motto - "don't be evil" - but Google argued it would be more damaging for civil liberties if it pulled out of China entirely.

BBC technology correspondent Rory Cellan Jones said Google had also seen a significant amount of internal dissent over its decision to operate under censorship.

In 2008, it signed the Global Network Initiative agreement with rivals Microsoft and Yahoo, pledging better protection of online privacy and freedom of speech against government interference.

Those commitments, however, are weighed against the commercial opportunities that China provides as a fast growing market.

Nearly 340 million Chinese people now online, compared with 10 million only a decade ago.

Last year, the search engine market in China was worth an estimated $1bn and analysts previously expected Google to make about $600m from China in 2010.

But unlike most markets, Google comes second in search in China.

It has 31% of the market compared with about 60% controlled by market leader Baidu, which has a close relationship with the Chinese government. Yahoo has less than 10%.

Microsoft has a tiny share of the Chinese market with its new Bing search engine, but in December the technology giant said it was committed to China, calling it "the most important strategic market".quote>

[mightygoose 92]

The Global Implications of Google’s Stand Against Chinese Censorship

Google dropped a bombshell today, declaring that it won’t censor Chinese search results after sophisticated attacks on the Gmail accounts of Chinese human activists. This opens the door not only for China to kick Google out of its country, but for a renewal of the battle over censorship and government oppression in China.

I’m going to divide this analysis of the ramifications of

Google’s

 

decision into three sections: what this means for China, the impact of the decision on global politics, and its potential effect on censorship itself.

What It Means for China: Not Much

Google may be taking a stand and threatening to pull out, but we predict that it won’t be enough to sway the Chinese government to let the Google China search engine run unfiltered, even if world governments apply strong pressure.

Let me make it clear:

China has a long and disturbing history of censorship.

I could link to hundreds of examples, but I think you get the picture.

Google isn’t the U.S. Government; it doesn’t have the political or technological leverage to make the Chinese government

to do anything

. Even the U.S. Government has limited influence, due to the economic ties between the two nations and our large debt to the Asian nation.

To think that China would change its rules and allow its citizens unfiltered access to what it believes is objectionable content (e.g. porn), as well as information and images on its greatest atrocities, is absurd. China backing off would weaken its iron-grip hold and open it up to more calls for the abolition of censorship inside its borders.

The end result is that Google will likely be gone from China and censorship will continue, at least in the short term. Only if Google agrees to some less-restricted censorship rules will the search engine be allowed to stay.

China’s about to feel some heat from the rest of the world, though.

The Global Censorship Debate Has Been Reignited

Google pulling out of China won’t be the end of the issue. Members of Congress have been very critical of not only China’s censorship and human rights violations, but of Google for complying with Chinese censors.

Now lawmakers and governments worldwide have another reason to speak out if China kicks Google out. The criticism will mount from institutions, organizations, and governments worldwide over China’s decision.

Google’s positioning it so that this is China’s decision, not Google’s, over whether the search engine stays operational within the nation’s borders. This is a smart move on their part and places China in an uncomfortable position.

The world will also begin to focus on the specifics of the attack on Google’s infrastructure. Who was targeted? How deep of a role did China play? What information do they have? What actions can be taken against China?

In the end though, China is a sovereign nation with one of the world’s largest economies. There will be a lot of head-butting over the next few weeks, but we doubt that anything more severe than condemnations will be issued.

The posturing and criticism will, however, return the spotlight on China and its questionable practices. That is a good thing. The debate has been reignited, which will make us question once again what China is doing on the web and beyond.

The State of Censorship

The world’s focus on major issues comes and goes. It was red-hot on

Iran

during the Iran Election Crisis and has been on and off when it comes to Chinese censorship and their human rights violations.

Today’s move places the spotlight back on China and the state of censorship, at least for the next few weeks. The 24/7 news cycle will analyze all of the angles, especially if China does end up kicking Google out. The more information that comes out, the more pressure that will be placed on China.

Even though Google will likely be a casualty of the censorship war, it will not have been taken down in vain. Activists will be reinvigorated, new information will be revealed, and the fight against oppression will continue.

How the war will turn out or when it will end is anybody’s guess. We haven’t even come close to seeing the full implications of Google’s decision. You can bet though that the effect will be felt for years to come in political, social, and technological circles worldwide.

 

---

Now for my perspective, this is really a clash of the titans giant game of chicken scenario.... google who effectively rule the internet, vs China, who effectively soon will rule the world.(if they don't practically already).

personally i think it would be unwise for china to hold on to this censorship thing for much longer, if they did the unexpected and dropped it, well they would gain alot of respect as a government. however considering how much money they have invested in the Golden Sheild, i very very much doubt that.

this will probably just end with google china being shut down. above quoted from mashable.com

 

[Odainsaker 2,137]

Beijing showed itself willing to accept harsh international condemnation and isolation for the Tiananmen Massacre, and as a result 20 years later, international investment, Chinese economic power, and Beijing's clout in international issues have now soared to new heights, complete with world leaders sitting awestruck and speechless before the thunderous opening ceremonies of the Bejing Olympic games. In the end, money talks, and a piece of the Chinese resurgence is the golden prize, so long are you keep your head down and don't broach politically improper topics. Uncensored distribution of information to Chinese citizens, however, threatens and is intolerable to Bejing's authoritarian rule, and Google in China can simply be gleefully purged, much like the sparrows exterminated by the absurdist Four Pests campaign. These are leaders who grew up in the crazy era of the Cultural Revolution and the Gang of Four, and who clawed their way to the top in the midst of backdoor purge politics...they are not going to be scared by the little likes of Google, anymore than they are scared by toymaker Mattel after shipping us poisoned toys for Christmas, or scared of the fallout of poisoned pet food, poisoned milk, poisoned drywall, or now poisoned jewelry. There will be token condemnations while everyone shifts their investment into Baidu, and life in the People's Republic goes on.

[morriswalters 16]

If the Chinese want more freedom, the only people who can give it to them is themselves.  However one might posit that the wealthier the Chinese people become the more likely they are to achieve that goal.  I think that most Cinese accept the current political situation and see the rise of their country with pride.  However wealth and access to it will keep the leadership busy.  Managing China and trying to bring it into the 21 Century poses big risks to the current leadership. 

Resources are were everybody should be looking, imagine China using resources on a per capita level as much as the industrialized nations  do.  Can you say shortages?  In terms of Google exiting China I suspect that could have been the goal of the attacks, think commercial war.  The best thing we can do for the Chinese is to provide a window which lets them see how it can be done better and not to cede the technolgical lead that we once had.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 8, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

It is unfortunate for the Chinese leadership that they still live in the Mao era to some extent. They believe that they can control information flow even after they have admitted the Internet to their country.

After allowing the Internet in, the time for having a snit over it is past. The "old men of Beijing" need to either grow up or retire. The camel's nose is in the tent.

[Nick9099 2]

I think that for Google to pull out of China would be a huge mistake. I am absolutely against media censorship by the Chinese Government, but this is why they ought to stay. Even before this spat started, Googe was the least biased of the search engines operating in china, and most Chinese trust Google more than the Chinese search engines. In my opinion, if Google leaves, then the sources of infomation still available to the Chinese will be the even more biased ones run buy Beijing.