Eternal Commuter Loop -

[landstander248 8]

 First, thanks to everyone who responded to my last two threads. My journey to get SC4 up and running the way I want has become long and enlightening. I think I have encountered my last obstacle - the dreaded Eternal Commuter Loop!

Much like the Opera House, this appears to be a game killing bug, but unlike the Opera House there does not appear to be a clear cut solution. I searched forums here and on SC4 Devotion and read everything I could find. What I found was not reassuring. 

The best explanation of the bug can be found in the CAM manual:

https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=1877.0  (probably need to register)

Basically, commuters may find themselves flocking to another city for a job, only to find that another, different city connection is closer than the actual job. So they go to that next city, only to find another (or the original) city has a closer city connection. Eventually a loop is formed, and the commuters circle it endlessly, basically wrecking your game and your region. 

Aside from some gimmicky new transit intersections (which I'm sure are awesome for some people) there is no actual solution. So far, the best thing I can figure is to understand the problem and keep it in mind during every stage of city/region design. For starters, you can just never create a loop in your region, though this can severely limit your ability to create a vast series of interconnected cities. The other, less fool-proof solution is to build your city connections near the center of the map's edge, so that connections are never so close that commuters choose them over the jobs in the actual city. Obviously, it is also beneficial to create job centers near the edges of adjoining cities, such that incoming commuters are able to travel more quickly to the job than to the city connection. But who wants their city design dictated by such parameters? 

Much remains a mystery to me. Such as the impact of demand and types of connections. Will a commuter go to a nearby city connection instead of a job, even if there are no jobs in that next city? Yes, I think so, because each city contains the demand of all connecting cities (minus the one you are playing). More interestingly, will a commuter who arrived via rail be able to switch transit types and then go to the next city which is only connected by highway. Again, the answer appears to be yes, though the transit networks do need to connect. I could go on and on... but a solution still seems elusive. 

I am honestly very, very, very shocked to find how little has been written about this bug. Maybe I am missing something? Maybe there is more out there I couldn't find? I'd love to know if there is... 

[SC4BOY 20]

There has been dozens of pages and tens possibly hundreds of posts on the issue... recall that some things are archived and some are lost and some are under different names.. generally if you keep connections near the center of tiles and don't make "corner cutting pathways in the city tiles you'll not have problems with it.. being aware of it and knowing its characteristics are the key.. that way you know when you have it and how to cut it off..

[Shlarin 0]

Although I'm quite obsessive about keeping my cities in a grid, I found that refusing to greatly upgrade the transit connections in your corners helps. Having subways with up to 10 tubes back to back is not uncommon in my cities but I tend to go easy on the "multi-tubing" of subways when near corners even when these connections are all red.

[landstander248 8]

Can someone expand on the corners strategy? For example, if I have a large city, and it has medium and small neighbors all around it, it becomes nearly impossible to not have connections going near the corners of those other cities.

As for another strategy, I'm envisioning having one city in a loop be 100% industrial, with carefully placed city connections - in the hopes that any commuters tempted to get stuck in a loop would be sucked into the one all-jobs city with central (and limited) city connections.

[SC4BOY 20]

Maybe this from another Thread I wrote will help
 

 ......For example if a "SimA" gets a job in adjacent "CityB" the city just tosses him "over the border" at a point half way into the tile and assumes that all works out.. in fact you don't even have to have the road or whatever in the CityB go anywhere as long as it is connected. Now what it DOES keep count of is the actual traffic "at the boundary". In that sense it is continuous, but not at any detail level.. all that does is dump traffic over and when you enter the other city it will figure out what to do with it....quote>

I didn't mention it, but this is pretty clear that this behaviour is what causes the "eternal commuter" or "commuter loop" or "commute time bug".. Since SimA got pitched over the border without further qualification, it gets "looked at" when you enter that adjacent city (CityB). The simulator looks at SimA and checks for a job for it.. if the best option seems to "throw it over the fence to CityC" then it does that .. this often occurs if the entry connection is near a corner and another exit connection is nearby.. so it sends SimA now to CityC  and washes its hands of it. Now if you enter CityC and find SimA dutifully waiting there at the city connection from CityB it picks it up and checks out the options.. it may send it right back to CityA if the right conditions exist.. .or it may send it to CityD and so on.. needless to say that Sim has a long commute and no job to boot! And of course CityA has no clue that SimA even came from CityA to start with.. it may even send it on more tail-chasing travels..

If your city geometry and connections have the right conditions, there ends up being 10's of thousands of commuters (perhaps even the same "traveler" several times) circling madly around city to city and going nowhere fast.. (how fast depends on what travel mode..

) This is the "commuter loop" or whatever name you wish...

The jist of this is.. When you go to the next city, it behooves you to design the city in such a way that the incoming SIM sees JOBS closer than he sees AN EXIT to another city (other than the city you just came from) . I don't know much else to tell you

[landstander248 8]

@SC4BOY

Thanks again for your input. Yeah, I've searched pretty exhaustively and what you're saying seems to be the extent of a solution.

The only other advice I've gathered is to have different forms of transit crossing each other when city design calls for it (i.e. instead of two roads crossing near a border/corner, use rial and road). Which is basically just another way of not letting sims exit-stage-left as soon as they enter the job-laden city.

I'd love to read up on other people's experiments with it, but they actually seem to be in short supply.

[SC4BOY 20]

There used to be dozens of fairly thoughtful strings on the subject, but time has taken its toll.

[SC4BOY 20]

Hehe.. I just re-read your original post....

Originally posted by: landstander248

...city connection. Eventually a loop is formed, and the commuters circle it endlessly, basically wrecking your game and your region. quote>

You are making far more of this than is necessary.. your region isn't "wrecked".. you simply have a problem to deal with and resolve just as you resolve many other kinds of problems

...city/region design. For starters, you can just never create a loop in your region, though this can severely limit your ability to create a vast series of interconnected citiesquote>

You certainly may create all the  loops you want.. they just can't be "corner cutters" basically.. You certainly may circle a highway from cityA to cityB to cityC and back to cityA.. just be sure that the loop envelops adequate realestate that contains job selections.

All the rest of your surmizes as you trail off are basically correct.. but again.. it isn't the end of the world.....

If you find, after getting into a region, that you have a "commuter loop" (and you WILL find it because it will evolve to be the biggest traffic issue in each city it is in) just figure out how you're going to cut it off and put other options in.. Your region doesn't collapse at this point .. .

Enjoy!

[AirFiero 0]

Are commuter loops only a problem for the region, or do they happen within a single city?

[CaptCity 4,753]

Region only... If Sims are "running around in circles" within a city looking for a job, they'll just "move" after a while (no-job zot).

[Ryan123220 18]

The only real way i found to conquer this problem is to have large loops between multiple cities. In a region i started a few days ago i have 7 cities(4 small 3 medium) , the only way to get in or out of a city is though a highway. I have it so that there are more jobs then there are people to fill them. My strategy is to have it where for a sim to drive into a city, they would have to follow the highway right though lots of jobs, which means they will almost always pick one of the jobs they pass over going the rest of the distance to get to the edge of that tile.

Ill try to post screen-shots latter, i have a city tile corrupt so i have to figure out which one it is before i can get the game to start up.

[DarthCloakedGuy 0]

Isn't it best to put industrial blocs on the corner of a city anyway to reduce pollution generated?

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

Hey, DarthCloakedGuy, this thread hasn't been posted in for 2 years. Usually it's a better idea to start a new thread if you have a question or want to discuss something than revive an ancient thread.

[CaptCity 4,753]

Yes...