Brutalist Architecture Discussion Thread!

[slightlyslack 20]

Gary: as a Mormon, I've always been somewhat embarrassed by my church's dabblings in high Modernism in meetinghouse and temple construction.  (Prior to his joining the LDS Church, my dad lived in Washington DC when the LDS temple there was built.  He said that when he first saw it, it reminded him of the University of Moscow! )

That stake center in Kensington isn't helping matters much.

 

Here's a question: how, in less than ten years, do you go from an elegant structure like this:

 

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to a monstrosity like this?

 

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[GaryReggae 80]

@Slightlyslack: I can see your perspective, however I don't think there is anything wrong with churches moving with the times, indeed churches have been some of the most innovative and exciting Modernist buildings, Liverpool Catherdral being a prime example.  However, I definitely do NOT agree with demolishing historic church buildings and replacing them with newer ones - Modernist churches should only be built in new housing developments or when there is demand for an extra church.  I don't think new churches should be built in a historical 'pastiche' style unless they are replacing a church building which is beyond repair.

[slightlyslack 20]

Date: 9/29/2005 2:48:21 AM Author: GaryReggae

However, I definitely do NOT agree with demolishing historic church buildings and replacing them with newer ones - Modernist churches should only be built in new housing developments or when there is demand for an extra church.

quote>

 

Oh man, you're not gonna like this page, then:

 

http://www.lileks.com/urban/churches/1.html

[Odainsaker 2,134]

Ah, the Brave New World of concrete construction.  Let me mention this cool building of the era, another Japanese Brutalist variant now heavily imbued with their diverging styles of Metabolism and, especially in this case, the Techno-Aesthetic.  We can see the three styles radically morphing in this great transitional structure.

 

Tokyo's funky 1967 landmark designed by Yoji Watanabe...

 

New Sky Building No. 3 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//newskybuilding1.jpg align=baseline>

 

More pre-fabricated capsule pieces, looking much like nested mobile homes from this very photogenic rear view from the 1970s (sorry, mine is a scan of an old xerox copy of a greytone photo from a 20-year old book).  There is no overarching megastructure as in the Metabolist fad, and the modules are not detachable, but the image of that cutting-edge technology was desired at the time.  Despite the purposefully industrial machine facade, this is actually a residential apartment tower.  Suprisingly, the tiny apartments have traditional Japanese interiors, with orthagonal rooms of tatami mats separated by sliding panels (if you are lucky, your suite will have a tea room).  I should also point out that there remains yet another design influence to watch for in the next images, one beyond Brutalism, outside of Metabolism, and abhorent to Modernism.  Can you see it?

 

Fortunately for us, the Grieger Homepage at http://www.grieger.net/newsky/index.htm  has the building's official website with a horde of cool photographs.

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Bild004.jpg align=baseline>

 

In the narrow old backstreets of sclerotic Tokyo, what is that looming over the tiled-rooftops?

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Bild008.jpg align=baseline>

 

My gosh, it is another building screaming to be attacked by giant radioactive monsters.  Or maybe giant armored robots.  Ultraman perhaps?  This particular architect is more interested in the visual and sculptural expressiveness of this building than its rigid function, and I must confess I am starting to see a chicken head with open beak and tiny eye.  What do you see?

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Bild010.jpg align=baseline>

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Bild013.jpg align=baseline>

 

Our initial reaction to the preceeding image tends towards horror at the weathering the pre-fab panels, the concrete bulk, and the aluminum cladding have endured.  However, I would argue that the apparent dinginess adds to the desired effect, for this building deliberately expresses a certain look which I think this last image finally brings home...

 

https://www.simtropolis.com/idealbb/files//Bild017.jpg align=baseline>

 

This building is a battleship!  An urban dreadnought whose rooftop water storage tanks look like torpedo mounts.  We must destroy the American carriers!  Sure enough, architect Yoji Watanabe was formerly a Japanese Navy lieutenant, and he willingly admits that he was influenced by the desire to recreate the marine architecture of the Navy.  I love it!  Where can I sign up to be a resident?

 

If you visit Tokyo, be sure to make your architectural pilgrimage to see New Sky Building No. 3.

[Compromise 1]

Not sure I like it but it is certainley unusual thats for sure.

[toxicpiano 125]

It actually reminds me of a battleship or aircraft carrier.

[wallasey 8]

Date: 10/2/2005 2:29:02 PM
Author: toxicpiano
It actually reminds me of a battleship or aircraft carrier.

quote>

The aliens have landed! ET is looking out of that window, can yer see im'?

[GaryReggae 80]

Wow, that is one scary building!!! Anyway, i've just returned from a short holiday 'Up North' in Liverpool and Manchester and I have some photos of Brutalism (I will post a separate thread with all my photos later when I've sorted them all out!)

Manchester's CIS Tower. The taller part of the tower was 'Too Brutalist' so it is currently being clad in blue panels.



Brutalist commercial building on Church Street, Manchester.



Manchester Arndale Centre. The whole thing used to be like this but a lot of it has been reclad in a more contemporary style.



This is the base of a very high new tower block currently going up - however this is VERY Brutalist in style although the black cladding separates it from its 60s counterparts.



Manchester's Hotel Piccadilly, a fascinating and magnificent example of Brutalism. The spiral park ramp is very similiar to that used at Portsmouth's now gone Tricorn Centre.



Another view of the Hotel Piccadilly:



Stockport's Merseyway shopping centre. Half of it has been Postmodernised but the other half remains intact as a fine example of 60s retail architecture. Even the clock has a 60s styling to it!



A very bland example of Brutalism is seen in this Stockport Debenhams store.



I love the 'Music World' building here...I've never seen anything like it but it just shouts 60s.



Marks & Spencer's, Liverpool. An interesting design.



Like all architectural styles, there are some HIDEOUS examples of Brutalism. This Royal Sunalliance building in Liverpool is far too big, very ugly and totally in the wrong place. It looks to me though like late Brutalism (late 60s/early 70s) which is not a nice style.



Another example of bad Brutalism is this court building - again in Liverpool. Like the Sun alliance building, it's in the wrong place and come on, is salmon pink stucco on a Brutalist building ever going to look anything other than awful? Give it a paint job and it would look better.



I stumbled across this little gem quite by accident. It's the St Johns Market Hall, Liverpool and it has a superb vaulted ceiling. It's seemingly impossible to get any views from the outside of it. This scene is just so 60s, I love it!



One of the strangest buildings I have ever seen and it took me a while to figure out what it was. Any guesses?



This photo has 2 for the price of one, the Brutalist fire station in the foreground and the Radio City tower behind it. The RC Tower was built in the 60s and was originally a revolving restaurant but it closed down in the 70s and was derelict until a few years ago when Radio City FM took it over and fitted it out as their radio studios. As an amatuer radio broadcaster, I had the honour of being given a guided tour of the studios and taking lots of photos of the view from up there. Superb!



Last, but definitely not least, is the Metropolitan Cathedral, Liverpool. Again, it has Brutalist elements but I wouldn't really describe it as Brutalist:

[slightlyslack 20]

Why is it that the country that most embraced Brutalism in the '60s has a climate for which the style is least suited?  As can be seen in those pics, bare concrete and grey, misty skies really do not go well together.

 

I could see Brutalism working very well in Los Angeles or Rio de Janeiro, but in Liverpool?

[Compromise 1]

Very intresting photo's there, shows some good concepts.

The UK does have good weather to you know.

[evilmonkey 0]

Date: 6/29/2005 7:32:22 AM
Author: GaryReggae

Nice University buildings Spa! Universities seem to be one of the main types of building where large scale Brutalism can be seen.

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Boston City Hall, USA:

quote>

Just thought I'd stop lurking for a few minutes to add some more brutalist, southern Ontario, Canada university brutalism (there seems to be a lot of it) with the math and computers building at the University of Waterloo.

Here's a picture of the building.

And another shot where there aren't grey skies. (but less of the building is shown)



Looks a bit like Boston City Hall imo, but then, that's probably just the style.

Nice pics/information people, and now back to lurking.

[Rabid Tangerine 0]

 My university [edit: also CSU, didn't see the post on the previous page] 

I've been trying to figure out especially what architechtural style the Vis Arts Building was in. I think I definitely know now

 

 

This is where I spend 90% of my classtime these days. The VAB stretches all the way down to the distant 5th segment waaay in the back left...

 

 

Turn right soon enough, and you encounter this imposing entryway...

 

 

Or go around the side and go into this imposing entryway...

 

 

Which enters into this equally imposing hallway. There's an interesting perspectival trick at work in this photo. The hallway doesn't go all that far back, maybe 30 feet at most. But there is a slight rise in the hallway that seems to push it further back...Move through this hallway, around the side, and further back about another 30 feet, you merge into...

 

 

 

Who'da thunk it? There's yet another imposing stretch of hallway past this one before you exit almost directly onto a very large parking lot...

 

 

It's, from my understanding, supposed to emulate a mineshaft. Every entrance into the building proper has a very large overhang that is like a tunnel over head. The confounding thing is that, even though there's a large linear hall, most classrooms and offices are located in almost mazelike configurations with doors that go into courtyards with doors to a classroom, which exits into the outside and into a connecting courtyard, or you can just take the back door straight into any classroom. If you can find it... It's a lot to take in...

 

 

It's not as tall, it's not as impressive as these towers you all live near...but it's certainly solved my ongoing dilemma....

 

 

 

Note: I did NOT take any of these pictures. I got them from my school website. Credit to the original artists, whoever they are...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hamsterTK 93]

Theyre gonna tear it down really soon, which is sad, but here is the Houston Schools Administration building in houston:
(the pic wont show but here is a link)
http://www.hisd.org/Departments/site_front/0,3121,36212358,00.html


My Grandma worked in it as a secretary, and I remember the interior being very interesting, but sort of confusing. Im gonna miss that building, its way more interesting than the New Urbanism mixed use stuff they are gonna squeeze into that lot, which after reading about it is nothing more than a luxury high rise condo with shops and a health gym smooshed on the ground so to speak....



And i sort of like that liverpool sunalliance building, i notice there seems to be a tunnel going to the right of it, is that parking structure entrance or is that a main road under it, anyways, i think tunnels are a cool touch, even though they are too much of a waste if something doesnt warrant a need for one.

[Compromise 1]

You can get a lot of different architecture at schools mainley because the different blocks were built at different times.

Yes that is a shame and judgeing by that photo that building dosen't look that bad. I hope they do replace it with somthing decent.

[hdorriker 190]

I've been trying to figure out especially what architechtural style the Vis Arts Building was in. I think I definitely know now

This is where I spend 90% of my classtime these days. The VAB stretches all the way down to the distant 5th segment waaay in the back left...

...

It's not as tall, it's not as impressive as these towers you all live near...but it's certainly solved my ongoing dilemma....

[hdorriker 190]

Ok, I found some pictures I took earlier of some of the architecture on the south end of the CSU campus.

Please pardon my camera's marginal image quality, it's a digital camera from 1997, so it blows.


the Zoology Building

Same building, different part, also the picture doesn't appear to have been flipped upright.

The back end of the chemistry building, in all of it's utilitarian glory.

The more visible end of the Childhood Development building, the ministry where they develop childhoods then upload them into childrens The Ivy adds some color to a building which DESPERATELY needs bright primary colors.

The side of the chemistry building which faces the Visual Arts building (posted eariler). There is a nice lawn between the two with a bike path.

[louisville327 0]

Bad news for all you Brutalism fans, but good news for the rest of us:



DailyDig reports (via Curbed.com) , there's significant support among eight at-large candidates for Boston City Council to implode or otherwise demolish the atrocious Boston City Hall.

My favorite quote, and Curbed's as well:

(Candidate) Sam Yoon: By itself, the revenue generated from the price of admission to see that take place would offset the cost of relocation.

quote>

Let's hope Boston moves ahead with this brilliant idea.

[vanshnookenraggen 0]

1. Boston City Hall is one of my favorite buildings.
2. I M Pei did NOT design the building. He did the master plan for Government Center but Kallman, McKinnell and Knowles designed the building.

I dont think this will happen, as anything that has such passionate feelings on both sides in Boston takes forever to deal with.

[louisville327 0]

Date: 10/28/2005 11:45:55 PM
Author: vanshnookenraggen
2. I M Pei did NOT design the building. He did the master plan for Government Center but Kallman, McKinnell and Knowles designed the building.

I dont think this will happen, as anything that has such passionate feelings on both sides in Boston takes forever to deal with.

quote>

You're correct on both points. I realized later that Pei was behind the atrocious plaza and layout of the government center, not the atrocious city hall itself. I have edited my post.

As for the speed at which Boston government operates, I think it's true of all large bureaucracies. The demolition plan will die in committee, and then the committee will die trying to find their way out of the building.

[vanshnookenraggen 0]

Whats interesting about the building is that most of the problems people (inside) have with it were all things that were supposed to be delt with in the original design but were scraped due to money (ie good insulation, plants, etc).

It is probably one of the only Brutalist buildings that I have ever seen that I do like. Most of the examples given in this thread show how gawd awful this style is but I think the city hall just works.

What is also interesting is on the other side of Government Center in Boston is the Human and Health Services Center which is also Brutalist and was so ugly they had to stop building it.















Now, I actually really dig this building, for what it is. That said, I am all for tearing it down and building something that fits into the neighborhood and isn't so coarse looking that you don't want to go near it.

[louisville327 0]

Vanshnookenraggen, when you said:

That said, I am all for tearing it down and building something that fits into the neighborhood and isn't so coarse looking that you don't want to go near it.

quote>

you really hit the nail on the head. For as unique and quirky as Brutalism can be, there's just something about rough, unadorned concrete that says cold and desolate. If a building people must spend lots of time in is not comfortable or warm and inviting, what value does it have? If a building inspires negative feelings just by looking at it, why preserve it?

Personally, I think preserving Boston City Hall and all the other Brutalist civic buildings built in the US and Britain does accomplish something: we keep an example of what not to do, so we never forget.

[vanshnookenraggen 0]

Personally, I think preserving Boston City Hall and all the other Brutalist civic buildings built in the US and Britain does accomplish something: we keep an example of what not to do, so we never forget.

quote>

Bingo. That is why I wish they had kept up a small portion of Boston's Central Artery so people could better understand how bad it was. With a park there you will just think it is a nice park.

[jen_p 53]

A few pages back Gascooker asked whether Brutalism was really only suited to large buildings. In response I'm posting some pictures of a fine example of small scale Brutalist Architecture. This 1967 house was designed by Harry Seidler for himself and he still lives in it today.

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/8770/seidler88rr.jpg align=baseline>

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/4378/seidler73kr.jpg align=baseline>

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/5649/seidler66la.jpg align=baseline>

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9044/seidler58pi.jpg align=baseline>

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/240/seidler42pt.jpg align=baseline>

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/8628/seidler31rh.jpg align=baseline>

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/629/seidler28ou.jpg align=baseline>

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/7019/seidler19hh.jpg align=baseline>

 

(all images hosted offsite)

[gascooker 4]

That house is superb - very stylish. I want one!. It has a few modernist qualities as well, especially the way some of the glass windows and openings are dealt with.

[vanshnookenraggen 0]

That house is proof that it isnt the style but the designer that counts.

[wallasey 8]

Date: 10/7/2005 7:20:19 AM
Author: GaryReggae
Wow, that is one scary building!!! Anyway, i've just returned from a short holiday 'Up North' in Liverpool and Manchester and I have some photos of Brutalism (I will post a separate thread with all my photos later when I've sorted them all out!)

Like all architectural styles, there are some HIDEOUS examples of Brutalism. This Royal Sunalliance building in Liverpool is far too big, very ugly and totally in the wrong place. It looks to me though like late Brutalism (late 60s/early 70s) which is not a nice style.





Another example of bad Brutalism is this court building - again in Liverpool. Like the Sun alliance building, it's in the wrong place and come on, is salmon pink stucco on a Brutalist building ever going to look anything other than awful? Give it a paint job and it would look better.




One of the strangest buildings I have ever seen and it took me a while to figure out what it was. Any guesses?





This photo has 2 for the price of one, the Brutalist fire station in the foreground and the Radio City tower behind it. The RC Tower was built in the 60s and was originally a revolving restaurant but it closed down in the 70s and was derelict until a few years ago when Radio City FM took it over and fitted it out as their radio studios. As an amatuer radio broadcaster, I had the honour of being given a guided tour of the studios and taking lots of photos of the view from up there. Superb!

quote>

The Law courts may seem brutalist but the building is actually based on the Old Liverpool Castle that stood on that site (or there abouts) untill the city was actually developed. The Strange building is the Liverpool ventalation shaft for the Wallasey kingsway Mersey Tunnel which was formally opened in 1971 and runs from Scotland Road in Liverpool to Gorsey Lane/M53 in Wallasey.

Something that hasn't been shown is this...


The row of shops in front of Liverpool Lime Street Station. For some strnge reason this row was built infront of this outstanding building. Luckilly, the row will soon be demolished and made way for a nice paved area.

Hope this clarifies your unanswered questions!

PS I am listening to City FM at the moment an' it's boss!

[Emozo 0]

i think the pictures of Harry Seidler house show that brutalism interior design is just as amazing as the exterior, an important point often missed

[GaryReggae 80]

Date: 11/6/2005 4:06:12 PM Author: Emozo i think the pictures of Harry Seidler house show that brutalism interior design is just as amazing as the exterior, an important point often missed

quote>

 

Oh yes, I love 60s interiors!  I have a few pictures will I will post later today.

[hdorriker 190]

That said, I am all for tearing it down and building something that fits into the neighborhood and isn't so coarse looking that you don't want to go near it.

quote>


you really hit the nail on the head... ...If a building inspires negative feelings just by looking at it, why preserve it?


Personally, I think preserving Boston City Hall and all the other Brutalist civic buildings built in the US and Britain does accomplish something: we keep an example of what not to do, so we never forget.

[GaryReggae 80]

EDIT: Sorry, duplicate post (I kept getting timeout errors so submitted again)