The Simtropolis Closet

[stephenhh 44]

Hi,
well I can't cook, h'ors Douvres are too small, and I love spicey food, but I like this Forum :-)

I must say that the discussion which continues down this page is something I have not had to think about or deal with for a very long time. I guess I'm lucky to live amongst friends (mostly straight) where it isn't a topic, they all know.

I don't go into a room, and announce hello, I'm gay, because with strangers personally I don't think it's any of their business. Which doesn't mean I'm scared to stand up and be counted.

[Zelgadis 638]

Wow, have I become that jaded? Everyone else reacted to Jemi's story with something like OMG!! I reacted with something like Yep, heard this before. And I also reacted to his follow-up about his principal with Yep, heard this before.

I'm only 28 and already certain things are not surprising me which perhaps should.

And thatmonkeysim, trust me, there are worse things in the world than everyone thinking that you're hot. I consider myself reasonably decent looking but I almost never get hit on which is a little depressing. I'm not overweight, but I'm not slim either. My tummy still jiggles when I brush my teeth. Gay people can be incredibly shallow when it comes to weight, I've discovered.

If people think your hot, enjoy it while you have it!

I am at least lucky that I found a boyfriend who likes that there's a bit more of me to hug.

ISF

[thatmonkeysim 8]

will do!

thanks that makes me feel better

[jmusshorn 7]

Date: 7/15/2005 9:30:55 AM Author: zelgadis Wow, have I become that jaded?  Everyone else reacted to Jemi's story with something like 'OMG!!'  I reacted with something like 'Yep, heard this before.'

 

Y'know, I'm also slightly shocked by some of the responses, and in retrospect I take on an identical view of the situation. I figure it this way: It happened, it's done, I'm better, I got over it.

 

And yes, even I have heard this before. It doesn't shock me a bit. Hell; why would it? It happened to me.

 

Life goes on, and it's gettin' better all the time! (To loosely and badly quote a Beatles song)

 

~J

[SpartanBadger 4]

You know I must say I'm not shocked that that happened (blame the media for my de-sensitization) but it angers me that people are still that much in the cave. And I am willing to bet that even if you had gone to the school board or something like that, you wouldn't have had much of a chance, because, at least in my area, the adult is always right, and did anyone else witness her say that to you? I think the schoolboard would just blow it off as something ridiculous like extortion. But as you said, I think you are a better person for having gone through that, and that which does not kill us makes us stronger. I personally think she will think of that moment every day of her life, and if not she will when she dies and has to be judged by her maker.

[subedei 3]

Date: 7/14/2005 6:53:31 PM Author: jmusshorn

Date: 7/14/2005 5:48:42 PM Author: mentarman XSpiderman, I think that would be nice, but that's not the world we live in.

Indeed. I know that my World History teacher Ms. Correa was definitely not a person to speak to about GLBT issues. See, she runs the local Christian club at our school, and she even tries to influence the children in our school with Christianity and republicanism (is that a word, Ian? ), which would be alright if it weren't illegal to discuss such subjects with your students in a public school. Someone had come up behind me right outside of her class, pulled me to the ground and kicked me multiple times shouting 'yeah, you tink you so great you ~censored~ faget!' (I know words were spelled incorrectly, they're just there to give emphasis on how stupid this guy sounded). So, he runs off, and I stagger into Ms. Correa's room and tell her what happened. I told her that he had kicked me all whilst calling me a faggot. (I'm practically the only openly gay person at our school. Mix that with the fact that I'm white and I'm surprised that I'm not dead). She told me: 'Well you better get up to the health room.' 'I'm in so much pain I can barely walk, can you call the nurse so she can maybe come down here or call my parents?' 'Well, no I can't do that.' 'Why not?' 'Well, I feel that you shouldn't have been so open about such a disgusting subject in a school setting, and that maybe you had this coming.' I promise, this is what she said. I'll never forget that. The kid got away with everything, and I got counseling for being gay. Justice served. ... No. Just thought I'd shed a little light on the Hawai'i public school system. ~J

[Dereko 0]

It is not an issue.. being gay is not the flu or clinical depression. It is the genetic disposition to like someone of the same gender as you. No one should have to hide in fear in this day of age. If other people cannot accept people that are different in some way from them then that is their issue, not his issue.

[masher 3]

I don't he HAS to deal with that kind of treatment...Society has to change...
I think he will always have to deal with stupid people, because there is always going to be someone who is not going to agree with your choices....but that does not give them the right to attack or hurt others in the way that lady offended Jemi....

TMS: Your sister will read that you know...[]

[mentarman 14]

Yes it would be nice if society changed to that point, but I think what subedai said stands to some extent. Whether or nto it should be other people's problem if they have a problem with you, in this day and age in our society, many of them are going to make it your problem. It isn't fair or right but it is going to happen.

For the record, because I think my posts were being referenced above, I'm not surprised this happened to him, but that doesn't make me any less horrified.

[subedei 3]

Date: 7/15/2005 11:37:10 PM Author: Dereko It is not an issue.. being gay is not the flu or clinical depression. It is the genetic disposition to like someone of the same gender as you. No one should have to hide in fear in this day of age. If other people cannot accept people that are different in some way from them then that is their issue, not his issue.

quote>

 

 

 I said issue not illness Dereko and if gays feel ashamed or guilty then maybe there is some underlying issues they have with their own problem.

 

 

 

Subedei

[Dereko 0]

Being gay is not a problem. Some people are scared to be open about themselves because of people who do have problems with people different from them. The problem is not homosexuality or the closeted gay person.. it is the people who refuse to accept anything different from what they are. If you are a different skin color from everyone else you can't hide it but if you are gay you can hide it (usually) and some do because they are afraid of people who kill people for being different, or beat them, or discriminate against people for being different, or whatever narrow minded people do to people they do not like.

[brett_131 0]

From MY eyes..of a straight guy..heres some of my thoughts

 

Its total bull that just because certain religions groups STRONGLY disagree with being homosexual, it is not right.  If god frowned on a certain group, than why would he even create homosexuality amognst the human race?  I have many friends, and of course all of them have different views on homosexuality.  Some are homophobic 100%, some are comfortable with it.  I am comfortable enough with MY sexuality to hang out with gay people, one of my closest friends is gay.  Also its bull that gay people are so different than straight guys.  Another aquantance of mine is gay, but by the way he acts you would have never guessed.  He dresses, acts, talks, and is hardcore into all sports like a typical straight guy.

 

And it is impossible to be 100% straight.  I had this discussion with my friends, and it doesnt bother us at all to think another guy is good looking, I just think they are attractive, but personally can't imagine doing things with another guy.

 

One of the things that makes me the angriest is the discrimination against gays, although lessened in past years, it is still an issue.  Look at rascism 30-40 years ago.  Schools were segregated, and blacks in many cases werent allowed to even step foot in white people stores, etc.  Looking back on that, it is discusting the way we treated other EQUAL humans.  I think in another 20 years or so the same will be true for the discrimination about homosexuality.

 

 

So thats my rant, and in the end, I am happy to live in a world where homosexuality is being more accepted.  I am quite glad I am straight, because frankly..girls are.......dead sexy haha and i can;t imagine being with anything but them, but i guess for a gay man, that exact sentence could be reversed

 

thanks for listening to my endless blabber!!!

--brett

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 7/15/2005 11:37:33 PM Author: masher

I don't he HAS to deal with that kind of treatment...Society has to change...

quote>

 

Hmm...I usually don't find masher's posts at all irrational. On the contrary,I find them thoughtful...occasionally, and very funny. However, society in general cannot be expected to change as a result of a person(s) being different.

 

I mean, if I didn't have my wants or attitudes accomodated by society, could I then expect the world to change around me for my benefit?? Not only would that be extremely improbable, it would also be...morally deficient.

 

I do not agree with you being harassed and handled in that manner jmuss, on the contrary, I think it was despicable (you got it right cheese ). However, this is how gays are treated sometimes by society. I agree that he has to change his treatment towards gays, but he also cannot be expected to swallow his oponions and change his views. Only his physical manifestation of that opinion has to change.

 

I hope I haven't offended anyone in my post. I think the above counts as one of my more tenuous and frictional ones. I'm a nice guy, honest!!

[Dereko 0]

Society does have to change and for the most part it has. Someone can't help the way they were born. Fifty years ago it was fine in the United States to discriminate against people based on their skin color. Today if that happens the vast majority of people find it appalling and are disgusted. Society does change and the majority of people out there, I hope anyways, do not have a problem with gay people. I mean why are people scared from people different from them anyways? They are obviously scared their own way of life is going to change based on other people and that isn't going to happen, I mean ask the Amish. I think the people need some sort of rallying point, some sort of target to get people like themselves riled up. Fifty years ago if a black boy in Mississippi were to whistle at a white woman, he could be beaten to death and the people who did it would be acquitted. If that happened today the people who did it would be convicted of a hate crime and probably sentenced to death for the murder. Times change and it gets better all the time So either adapt to the modern world, or go to some backwards primitive country and live your life there where people who are different are killed and jailed. Oh don't forget to write, if they allow it.

[thatmonkeysim 8]

Date: 7/16/2005 12:04:39 AM
Author: ephorex_77

Date: 7/15/2005 11:37:33 PM Author: masher

I don't he HAS to deal with that kind of treatment...Society has to change...

quote>

Hmm...I usually don't find masher's posts at all irrational. On the contrary,I find them thoughtful...occasionally, and very funny. However, society in general cannot be expected to change as a result of a person(s) being different.
I mean, if I didn't have my wants or attitudes accomodated by society, could I then expect the world to change around me for my benefit?? Not only would that be extremely improbable, it would also be...morally deficient.

I do not agree with you being harassed and handled in that manner jmuss, on the contrary, I think it was despicable (you got it right cheese ). However, this is how gays are treated sometimes by society. I agree that he has to change his treatment towards gays, but he also cannot be expected to swallow his oponions and change his views. Only his physical manifestation of that opinion has to change.

I hope I haven't offended anyone in my post. I think the above counts as one of my more tenuous and frictional ones. I'm a nice guy, honest!!

[SpartanBadger 4]

I see Dereko knows his US History. Emmett Till is a good example of society being so disgusting.

[jmusshorn 7]

Okay, it sounds like I started something that I really didn't intend on starting.

 

Subedei: I agree with your line of reasoning; These kind of repugnantly violent outbursts by society's fools are indeed side effect of coming out. However, it depends on what you imply by your statements. Are you saying that gay people just shouldn't come out, therefore society doesn't have to deal with us? Or are you saying that these sorts of things unfortunately happen while society is gradually changing towards acceptance?

 

I sincerely hope that your intention is indeed the latter.

 

ephorex: To be perfectly honest; yes, society does indeed need to change (gradually or otherwise) in order to accommodate a newly prominent group of people. Indeed, I certainly don't expect society to instantly say we think it's okay to be gay unanimously, but it's a goal worth shooting for. I mean, even African-Americans (or Africans at all, for that matter) still have to deal with the reprocussions of a racist society in many parts of the world, and look how far they have come in terms of equality.

 

I can say that from an objective point of view about society in general (without any adgenda in mind) is that society is often afraid to change, yet society changes very gradually. I think that the minority groups of the world need to continue to fight for our rights as human beings and as citizens of our respective countries.

 

Human beings are amazing things. I think that we can manage to live in peace together (to some sane degree) if we just try to understand eachother and accept oneanother for who we are; imperfect individuals. Humans.

 

I have the faith and trust in the human race that this can be accomplished sooner or later; if not for us, then for our children and our children's children.

 

~J

[masher 3]

Date: 7/16/2005 12:04:39 AM Author: ephorex_77

Only his physical manifestation of that opinion has to change.

quote>

Eh?...

[jmusshorn 7]

Date: 7/16/2005 1:05:59 AM Author: masher

Date: 7/16/2005 12:04:39 AM Author: ephorex_77

Only his physical manifestation of that opinion has to change.

Eh?...

 

I believe that ephorex means that he can have the opinion that he has, all he has to do is change the way in which he physically expresses his opinion (i.e. Kicking the *beep* out of me.)

 

ephorex: Am I totally wrong?

 

~J

[masher 3]

Ohhh I thought he mean YOUR physical manifestation of being gay....
Me is confused....ephorex un-confused me!

[Shadow Assassin 336]

Well, I am straight, but I wonder what it would be like being gay, though.

I do have a few gay friends, they don't hit on me, though, actually, I get on a lot better with them than my straight friends.

I've had a few guys hit on me, as they assume I'm gay... probably because I'm smart, well-dressed, like a metrosexual.

But they're just messing with my mind. So it doesn't worry me, whether someone is gay or not. Though, lesbians are cool.

[Mickebear 2]

After being away a moment, this thread has grown immensely... a little comment to Ephorex: you say that society cannot change to accept homosexuality.

I assume from this opinion that an individual cannot change anything in the society. I don't agree actually, because I have seen the contrary happening in Finland for instance - ok, maybe things start from changing the world around you, but when enough people change their worlds around them - then also society starts to change little by little. Finland has changed in 30 years from the type of opinion that some people here are sporting: cool, but don't show it openly (if you show, be prepared to accept the consequences) through that's ok with me, we can talk about it to even funny situations when being introduced to any new person: as there is no gender in Finnish language, so when inquiring about marriage, or having a significant other, people don't assume any more so automatically that your partner is of opposite sex.

 

Which has created totally different way of talking in the recent years: politely trying to find out the sex of somebody's partner in order to give correct compliments. You know, when the gender has disappeared from the language, (no he or she, nor his and hers, but all is neutral) it does create very different and funny situations. And when some times the first names could appear with both a female and male bearer, the truth is revealed only when meeting the couple...

 

I hope this made some sense... it is very difficult to explain the nuances that one can experience - when all is based to such a different, non-genderized language as Finnish.

[sovietpower91 2]

   Im a straight guy and growing up i was taught to hate homosexuals i never really got a reason other then its agianst the way people should live there lives. Well because of this i was very homophobic and i still kind of am but i realize now after moving to canada being gay isnt a bad thing like i was taught growing up. I have come to realize in the past couple of years that gay people are just the same as straight people just with a different sexual orrientation(sp?). I don't show any hate twords gay people like some of the older members of my family do but i still dont have any gay friends or anyone that even really likes the idea of gay people. 

    I don't know why im like this but it just seems that all the friends i have are homophobic. I used to have a gay friend and most of his friend's were gay and one day we were hanging out and some of them were hitting on my mabye thinking i was gay im not sure why. But ever since that day i havent talked to him or any of his friends not because they were bad people or even that they were hitting on me but because my family would never accept me to have gay friends or anything like that.

   Anyway what im trying to say is really nothing at all lol. But i have come to accept homosexuals as other people and not as the lower beings i was taught they are and that they are no different that me in anyway except they like men and i like women. PS. if i have ofended anyone by anything i have said i am very sorry i did not post to afend you and if i do i apoligize in advance. But if i didnt offend you please post and tell me why mabye we can sort it out. Also sorry for any spelling mistakes im not the best at english


Edit: On the subject of society i thing it will have to change much like the equality of whites and blacks but i dont i see a drastic change anytime soon but if your going to look anywhere for changes look to canada we always seem to be ahead of the world when it comes down to civil(is this civil? or humanitarian im not sure) rights and when it happens here that things change it will start to happen more and more around the world.you can already see small changes happening in canada like the legalization of gay marriage (not sure if it all done yet but last i heard it was accepted?). Soon other countrys will adopt this i know belgium and netherlands have already legalized it but its the netherland they legalize everything . Anyway this poster is tired its 4:30 a.m here and i should get some sleep so i shall wrap this up now.

[thatmonkeysim 8]

thats a great step in the right direction and is what we are talking about...peoples opinions do change...

it just takes awhile...

im glad you posted that sovietpower91

[ephorex_77 0]

Date: 7/16/2005 1:15:31 AM Author: jmusshorn

Date: 7/16/2005 1:05:59 AM Author: masher

Date: 7/16/2005 12:04:39 AM Author: ephorex_77

Only his physical manifestation of that opinion has to change.

Eh?...

I believe that ephorex means that he can have the opinion that he has, all he has to do is change the way in which he physically expresses his opinion (i.e. Kicking the *beep* out of me.)

ephorex: Am I totally wrong?

~J

[thatmonkeysim 8]

well thats exactly the point people thought i was wrong for a black and white couple to be together and some thought it was morally wrong to even be in contact with other 'race' so your point fits into our dicussion perfectly...

and we never said that you couldnt voice your opinion... so my opinion of you hasnt changed at all... your still crazy

btw masher she hasnt read it yet

[jmusshorn 7]

Date: 7/16/2005 6:44:22 AM Author: ephorex_77 I hope my posts here haven't changed anyone's opinion of me for the worse.

 

No, I don't believe that I will hold any of what has gone on here against you.

 

You may have opinions dissimilar to mine, but you also handle yourself in a very dignified manner. A rarity today among true debators[sp?].

 

Anyway, with that said, I shall say this.

 

I believe that everyone should have a right to believe exactly what they believe, and that nobody else should have their opinions infinged upon by others. In that respect, I believe that some should not impose their opinions onto others. (This is not pointed at anyone in this discussion, keep in mind please.) In spirit of such a mentality, I think that everyone deserves happiness, regardless of what others say or believe to be morally/spiritually/religiously correct.

 

I mean, let's just say I were a powerful person in government, and I thought that black people and white people shouldn't be allowed to be married to eachother. To step a little further into this, let's just say that quite a few people in this society agreed with me. I would claim that I think that it is wrong for people of different races to get married. These would be my personal opinions, yet I would be imposing them upon others, and two distinct and prominent groups of people would be adversely effected by my actions regarding the subject. Would that make me right, even though I did what I did because I thought it was right? I don't think so. Do you?

 

To disclaim myself here: That was purely an example, and it in NO WAY reflects how I personally feel.

(It's just one of those for instance sort of examples)

 

We as human beings deserve certain amounts of freedom and happiness. Not gay people, straight people, white, black, hispanic, asian or any other type of people. As human beings. I love my life as is, but I would surely love to be able to marry who I wish in the country that I love. If that can't happen, so be it I suppose, but society will hopefully come to see in time that marriage is about the love that two people share; that love isn't restricted to a man and a woman, nor is it restricted to a white or black couple.

 

Freedom is a beautiful thing in every form.

 

~J

[sovietpower91 2]

Umm i have always wondered why do gay people have gay pride parades/festivals? If you want to be treated the same as everyone else why do you need a parade? We dont have straight pride parades. Im sorry if that sounded offensive but i have just always wondered that and i thought i should ask now

[jmusshorn 7]

Y'know, even I have asked that question.

 

If we want to be the treated equally, why do some of us gay people try to completely dissimilarize ourselves from our heterosexual bretherin?

 

Herein lies the answer though: ...some of us gay people...

 

I personally don't go to gay pride parades, nor do I go to gay clubs or any of that. I'm a normal guy, until it comes to attraction; then it gets slightly different.  Aside from that, I'm pretty much a normal male, more or less.

 

I've seen that some straight people have killed gay people, held protests at the simple existence of us, and have bombed gay clubs and, for that matter, abortion clinics (but I'm not getting into that at all). Do I think that all straight people are like that? Of course not. To generalize on such a mass scale based on extreme actions of a few would be foolish, and downright stupid.

 

I'm not offended at all. Just wanted to state my case on the matter.

~J

[villarule 2]

Date: 7/16/2005 7:19:57 AM
Author: sovietpower91
Umm i have always wondered why do gay people have gay pride parades/festivals? If you want to be treated the same as everyone else why do you need a parade? We dont have straight pride parades. Im sorry if that sounded offensive but i have just always wondered that and i thought i should ask now

quote>
im guessing because they want to show everyone that they are not ashamed but proud of their sexuality