Your political views

[Alex_1210 189]

 

 

Oh heyyy a "fellow" Libertarian. A Canadian one at that, thought it was only big in America.

 

hey, i see you're also an objectivist

I am reading atlas shrugged right now, down to the last 100 pages, and although I don't fully agree with somethings in the book, i do agree with the vast majority, but not enough to call myself an "objectivist"

And looking at the political views of the vast majority of people on this thread, i can say, sadly, that we aren't that close to ayn rand's world

[Mr Saturn64 742]

In terms of parties, I prefer independent party as almost aloof political corruption in America came directly or indirectly from political parties arguing, trying to get what's best for their party, not for their country

[LexusInfernus 908]

Is european a political view?

If not, I'm conservative, progressive, green, christian(for positive religious freedom, but against sects), liberal in terms of culture and medicine, for european integration, against the US meddling around, ...

In Europe being for or against a greater Europe is definitely a sort of political view. Again, one that goes beyond the normal left-right, libertarian-authoritarian, conservative-progressive divide. 

[Alejandro24 575]

Oh no, I'm a terrorist! Hate me

....

(To be honest, I prefer to consider myself as citizen of Earth and a Cosmic brother for everybody. "I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world", as Socrates said)

Who is without sin cast the first stone.

In the political circles that I frequent you could be considered as a libertarian red terrorist who want to destroy us.

Oh, well, in the same case as you despite the quiz says I'm a leftist I don't consider myself as a leftist, just an idealist. I personally crash a lot with all those leftist people.

[FrenchThom 27]

Ah, another chance to increase my post count.

Libertarian-ish conservative. It has been stated that Libertarians are against anti-drug and prostitution laws, but still wouldn't want their kids, um, turning tricks for crack money (seriously paraphrased). I'm not that Libertarian, drug and prostitution laws serve a purpose.

But I am so enough to declare that American liberty is dead, killed by a thousand cuts inflicted by thousands of politicians. And the part that bugs me the most is, the American people don't care. They will, when their cage is finally locked and the damage cannot be reversed. But since it's not written on Britney's... inner thigh, no one seems to notice.

 

To ensure crazy brain-dead tortured mind can not obtain guns is common sense , not a cut in " liberty " ...

[timmie 988]

Maybe it's better to not quote posts from four years ago

[Alex_1210 189]

Maybe it's better to not quote posts from four years ago

Lmao

[Mr Saturn64 742]

In terms of parties, I prefer independent party as almost aloof political corruption in America came directly or indirectly from political parties arguing, trying to get what's best for their party, not for their country

George Washington said to avoid political parties. What would have happened if...

[flatron 83]

Sie sind ein Sozialdemokrat. 12 Prozent der Testteilnehmer fallen auch in diese Kategorie und 28 Prozent sind extremistischer als Sie.

translation: you're a social democrat. 12% are of your opinion and 28% are more extremist than you

source: http://www.politicaltest.net/deu/

and hey, it's threedimensional...

I'm a bit shocked by the ecological vs. anthropocentric thing, though oO

 

[Alejandro24 575]

Really grea test, It have a bit of more global vision. These are my results:

You are a patriotic and authoritarian Socialist. 2 percent of the test participators are in the same category and 87 percent are more extremist than you.

[Dr. Boom 37]

 Anything which places Margaret Thatcher to the right of Adolf Hitler has to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

Actually Hitler and the Natzis supported a lot of Welfare. Hence, the Socialism part of National Socialism. The "right" you are thinking of is authoritarianism, which has to do with how much government intervention is apart of social issues. I did find it odd on how authoritarian she was. Certainly she wasn't some overtly racist reactionary to the right of Mitt Romney?

 

 

...too right wing it too immoral...

 

I object!

 

 

 

 

Oh heyyy a "fellow" Libertarian. A Canadian one at that, thought it was only big in America.

 

hey, i see you're also an objectivist

I am reading atlas shrugged right now, down to the last 100 pages, and although I don't fully agree with somethings in the book, i do agree with the vast majority, but not enough to call myself an "objectivist"

And looking at the political views of the vast majority of people on this thread, i can say, sadly, that we aren't that close to ayn rand's world

 

 

I think there is a difference between an Objectivist and a Randist.

 

An Objectivist is a type of rational egoist (individualist). Whatever supports the individual is good, and whatever takes away the individual's ultimate autonomy is bad. I believe an Objectivist can easily donate to charity or do community service if it is in their interest to do so. As long as there is no coercion, and it is all voluntary.

 

A Randist is someone who support's Rand's view dogmatically. We are talking anti-religion, pro-choice, irrational bane of all things that require to give up something for someone else, even if it's voluntary.

 

Rand might of thought up Objectivism, but she's dead now and Objectivism is subject to different interpretations, unlike her mindset.

 

Main reason I'm not an AnCap is I don't trust corporations to not deal with slaves. And not the type the leftists talk about, but actual slavery.

 

At least the majority of people here are anti-authoritarian...

 

 

Ah, another chance to increase my post count.

Libertarian-ish conservative. It has been stated that Libertarians are against anti-drug and prostitution laws, but still wouldn't want their kids, um, turning tricks for crack money (seriously paraphrased). I'm not that Libertarian, drug and prostitution laws serve a purpose.

But I am so enough to declare that American liberty is dead, killed by a thousand cuts inflicted by thousands of politicians. And the part that bugs me the most is, the American people don't care. They will, when their cage is finally locked and the damage cannot be reversed. But since it's not written on Britney's... inner thigh, no one seems to notice.

 

 

Libertarianism will FORCE people to adopt stricter morals, if they want to become wealthy. Perhaps there is some Social Darwinist heresy in my ideology, but if there is to be a hierarchy in American society, I'd much prefer it if the hierarchy is partially moral and will based. Druggies and hippies at the bottom, freedom loving conservatives at the top. No government intervention needed: It'll naturally sort itself out.

 

As for your kids, ensure they are raised with a good sense of morality, and they'll be richer both literally and morally.

 

I'll agree with you on the last part, although I believe that if a regular diet of McDonalds and Prolefeed continue, the American people will be too fat to care even if they are in a fascist state.

[Alex_1210 189]

Yea, myself being a Christian, Rand can really get on my nerves sometimes with her religion bashing. 

 

 

And regarding ancaps, anarcho-capitalism is fiercely against slavery... it's actually impossible.
 

[LexusInfernus 908]

Yea, myself being a Christian, Rand can really get on my nerves sometimes with her religion bashing. 

 

 

And regarding ancaps, anarcho-capitalism is fiercely against slavery... it's actually impossible.

 

What the philosophers and theorists behind a certain movement say and what actually happens in practice is not always the same. Even more so for anarcho-capitalism as there is no enforcement mechanism that can force companies to stick to the moral codes and ethics that these philosophers claim belongs to their movement. It entirely depends on the moral code of the people in such a society and how much spine they have to stick to that moral code. My guess? The capitalist bit of anarcho-capitalism might be problematic as self interest is inherently not alligned with the interests of society as a whole, and if slavery means more profits for those that run the companies they will inevitably go for it.  

[Alex_1210 189]

Even more so for anarcho-capitalism as there is no enforcement mechanism that can force companies to stick to the moral codes and ethics that these philosophers claim belongs to their movement. 

There is a mechanism, that's even stronger than force. It's called public opinion. Take for example a business man that may not have the same moral code as the vast majority of the population, he may even despise it. But if that business man wants to make profit and stay afloat in the market, he needs the public on his side.  As a free consumer, you can buy from whoever you want, and buying from companies that support your moral code thus encourages it. There is no government to favour some companies over others, to give subsidies and allow monopolies, to encourage one moral code over another. Slavery wont lead to big profits, and let me explain why. First of all, slavery would infringe on the inalienable human right, which is the right to individual sovereignty. Secondly, the consumers who disagree with slavery will boycott your company. Also, its one thing to provide an employee with a wage for his labour, and another to feed him and house him. a free man is more productive than a caged man. 

[LexusInfernus 908]

 

Even more so for anarcho-capitalism as there is no enforcement mechanism that can force companies to stick to the moral codes and ethics that these philosophers claim belongs to their movement. 

There is a mechanism, that's even stronger than force. It's called public opinion. Take for example a business man that may not have the same moral code as the vast majority of the population, he may even despise it. But if that business man wants to make profit and stay afloat in the market, he needs the public on his side.  As a free consumer, you can buy from whoever you want, and buying from companies that support your moral code thus encourages it. There is no government to favour some companies over others, to give subsidies and allow monopolies, to encourage one moral code over another. Slavery wont lead to big profits, and let me explain why. First of all, slavery would infringe on the inalienable human right, which is the right to individual sovereignty. Secondly, the consumers who disagree with slavery will boycott your company. Also, its one thing to provide an employee with a wage for his labour, and another to feed him and house him. a free man is more productive than a caged man. 

 

And as it turns out, public opinion is easily swayed when it turns out that slavery makes the products they buy so much cheaper. And really, companies that mistreat their workers don't make big profits? Have you looked outside the window? Apple treats everyone bad and they make huge profits. Nike, H&M and tons of other clothing producers use child labor and pay almost nothing, yet they don't seem to be on the verge of failing. We all know the companies that ruin the earth, mistreat the people that work for them and no one cares. Besides, who is going to know? There are no government institutions that can legally access these plants to check worker health and report it to the public and the media is corporate owned which means their reporting is anything but fair and bias free.

 

This furthermore assumes the consumer has the choice to go to a company that does take care of its workers. What if all the companies in that sector do it, because if they don't, they simply get out competed by the ones that do. And talking about competition, without a government to hold certain businesses in check, monopolies will be the inevitable result, which is as we all know, very bad for consumer choice. It is ironic that the free market has the tendency to become a lot less free if it wasn't for government anti monopoly laws. 

[jeffsandychelsea 3]

You are a

Social Liberal 

(93% permissive)

and an...

Economic Conservative 

(90% permissive)

You are best described as a:

Anarchist

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Over the years that this thread has been active, I've become a centrist.  I like minority governments and don't much care who is in the dog house (24 Sussex Drive) as long has he doesn't have tenure for a solid five years.  I don't much are who gets to wag the dog either.  I've concluded that, with the present mess as an example, majority governments are a bust.

 

However, I don't think the freshman leader of the Liberal Party of Canada would make much of a PM.  He has never, ever held a cabinet post and so has never seen the operation of the government from inside.  Of course, neither has Tom Mulcair but he is now Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition which is almost like being in the cabinet.

[AkemiAzula 280]

I did the vote compass this election, but bear in mind few of the issues interested me. I would describe my position as centrist, however it is a touch more complex than that. 

 

The problem with trying to define ones political direction is that on one issue one might wish to act in one way and regarding another issue act in another manner. I tend to form opinions based on

 

1. others opinions

2. my gut feelings

3. my intentions, wishes and beliefs/theories

 

in this order. However because so often conflicts arise between the opinions of my Facebook friends/co-workers/relatives (I don't have real friends, and haven't since Megan was taken to Perth fourteen years ago) and my own gut feelings and beliefs, I tend to give opinions which are central and unbiased. My opinions aired publically tend to be rational, logical, and scientific. 

 

However because often the logical thing to do might not be the best thing for my own situation (say if killing me helped the world etc) my opinions are als naturally biased by my own situation, although as an unemployed pauper who was homeschooled I have few connections to society and its issues.

 

I am not a believer in individualism, but I do believe in freedom. That is I believe in the importance of being in control of ones self and ones destiny, but I do not believe in rebelling without a cause either. 

 

As to welfare my own situation would have been far worse off had I not received welfare, but had I managed to get a job anyway that wouldn't have been an issue. Unemployment is the only reason I required welfare, as I am fairly healthy and intelligent and have no connections with others. If economic times improved and the amount of work improved, welfare would become less important for me.

 

I believe in strong government control of public utilities and infrastructure, but weak influence on business and private firms. Train lines and water works should be government run, but Apple and Samsung should be given free reign.

 

Tax avoidance however I would not tolerate, and I believe in Draconian measures to enforce all reasonable demands of the authority of the state.

 

I do not believe in wars and funding a military, but am aware of their necessity and function. 

 

I think that hackers should be burnt alive but the Internet should not be regulated. 

 

I think antisocial behaviour/chavs should be harshly punished for whatever they do, but I would not object to lowering the age for alcohol/drugs etc. I am one who turns a blind eye to such things until they cause a problem. My views on OH and S are similar. No rules, but if a worker is hurt and it is obviously their employers fault for negligence then naturally harsh penalties should apply. The same would apply to motoring rules. I think speed limits are stupid. But I think motorists should always drive carefully.

 

I am pro-bicycle as I am too poor to drive a car, so would be all for new bicycle paths. I am pro-railway and indifferent to motor cars. I think planes are silly expensive things. 

 

I believe in free trade without heavy dues, and free movement between nations of citizens. I do not believe in red tape or inefficiency.

 

I am known for being against families, but this is because I view them as archaic and backwards, not because I believe in silliness. If somebody does get married they should remain so till death and should raise their children properly. I do not believe in toleration of religion or cults that are unscientific. Alcohol not being able to be sold before 10 am on Sundays is just stupid.

 

I believe in surveillance and intelligence, but I also believe in the importance of honour and honesty. I have very confused and mixed thoughts on Assange and his Wikileaks brethren. On the one hand I favour openness, on the other I favour the gaining of rational pure data uninfluenced by human error/bias.

 

On the environment I would take a scientific stand. I am aware of the problems of resource management, but I am unlikely to spend unecessarily on eco projects if there are more important matters. 

 

Diplomatically I believe in politeness and civility. Any nation which threatens mine I would prefer to erase from existence, but I don't think wars achieve anything.

 

Health and education should be free for all, and run by the state. Houses should be owned by their occupants for the duration they reside in them, one house per person, and then returned to the state to be given to a new person. However while the state has ultimate responsibility for housing (rent would become a tax like in Simcity) the house would be the occupants property. I believe money lending and renting out rooms should be made illegal. I also believe gambling should be made semi-illegal. That is I would turn a blind eye to a two-up school, but advertising gambling or pokie machines would be instantly killed. 

 

On marriage I think it has become such a different institution these days that the whole concept of marriage ought to be abolished and replaced by something more practical. I think regarding families that if two people live together they should be considered married by the state for all financial considerations.

 

I think that the countryside, wherever not employed in a manner making it unsuitable for public access, should be accessible by all citizenry. That the right to roam should exist in all wild parts, and that an extensive network of public ways, linked so as to be joined in a universal network across the nation, should provide access to all parts of the nation. That pushbike helmets should NOT be mandatory, and that riding on the paths should only be punished if it leads to an accident or problem.

[hym 358]

Some questions...

What constitutes a public utility? Why should it be heavily controlled by the government? For the benefit of the populace? What if that strong government control is killing the utility?

Why does the government need to employ Draconian measures to enforce tax code? Tax agencies screw things up, sometimes mind bogglingly so, and Draconian enforcement policies can lead to good people getting their lives ruined for no fault of their own.

A lot of people hate speed limits, but what is the better alternative? How does one objectively argue that he is driving more carefully than the next guy if there are no standards for allowable speed? What if you think that you are driving safely but the officer does not agree? Who is right if there is no standard?

If money lending is to be illegal, what happens to people who need a few thousand dollars to cover an unexpected vehicle repair? What happens to credit cards? What happens to companies and governments that have solid plans for growing revenue, but need some money to get those plans started?

If people living together are to be considered married, does that mean two flat mates who are attending university together are to be considered married? What if it is two couples splitting rent on a large apartment that is conveniently located near their jobs and school? Are they a four person marriage?

[flatron 83]

The government can only ever be as strong as it's support from the voters. In a democracy, the governing party(or coalition) will not be reelected if they do something that bothers the people. The most fundamental thing is that The State is there for the People, not the other way . Therefore, never ask what you can do for your country, but ask what your country can do for you and what you'll have to do in return(eg. pay taxes, be a good citizen, abide laws and rules,...)

 

If your tax agency screws things up, you can still sue them(or the state, for that matter). The state needs the tax money to pay for child care, schools, transportation, infrastructure, administration(you'd want your civil servants to get paid enough, because otherwise, they might become corrupt) Besides that, it is totally unacceptable to make a corporation poorer than it is to avoid paying taxes.

 

Speed limits are totally OK, as long as they are reasonable, for example: 30kph in residential areas, 50kph in town, 100kph on country roads and no general limit on autobahns. If conditions like sharp turns, narrow right of way, bad pavement, etc apply, the limit does of course have to be lowered.

 

Money lending should not be illegal, and it is totally unproblematic as long as you have your brain turned on. Buying things you can't afford(a bmw if you live on minimum wage, for example) does not make sense. Your car repair though, should be paid by the insurance company. Instead of a credit card you can use a debit card that deducts the money directly from your bank account, which means that there is no third party involved(saves you money)

 

As far as I'm concerned, two people sharing a flats are not to be considered married, but  a household. Tax should not be deducted per person or per married couple, but per household, with children being calculated as half-adults that "pay" half the tax. As children don't pay taxes, this saves the household money.(By doing it that way, the french have a much higher birth rate than germany or italy, as having kids saves you money)

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Governments are supposed to represent the people and are not really an entity on its own.  Taxes are the price of government, and the government, being nothing more than a service to the people, does not belong in the private business sector, ever.

 

Bureaucrabcies that harshly enforce tax rules or other rules for that matter have got the bit in their teeth and need to be cleaned up.  Bureaucrabs and snivel serpents need to be brought to heel.  They are employees of the people, not the government.  Being a son of a female dog is not in their job description.

 

Speed limits should be assigned with safety in mind.  They should be reasonable, and safe for the road that has been constructed.  Low limits in school zones should be only in place while school is in session and for about a half-hour before and after.  I've seen this in action.

 

Money lending is the grease that oils the economic machine.  However, I would like to see an absolute legislated maximum of 10%.  Credit should not be impossible to get, but presently it is far too easy.  This is due to the usurious rates that credit card outfits are allowed to charge to cover unsecured risk.  With a 10% per annum ceiling, they'd simply have to tighten up their rules, which would help to control inflation.  The now generation would just have to wait.

 

In Canada if two people co-habit and share all expenses and a bedroom they are considered married after a statutory period.

[AkemiAzula 280]

Some questions...

etc

1. A public utility is essential/very useful infrastructure which forms a universal network (telephones, mail etc) where it is best to have efficiency and accountability. The idea is that the government, being democratic, is held to account by the people more than a corporation which exists for profit.

 

2. I was referring to obvious cases of tax avoidance, not everyday Joes forgetting to file their returns. Naturally this is about making companies accountable. Dracnian financially, i.e hefty fines rather than mozzie bites.

 

3. Drive carefully. There isn't a 'bottle limit' on alcoholic beverages, yet most people can control their intake. How often do you actually bother to keep to the speed limit when nobody is around? If you're on private property do you consider your speed, or your safety? If you cause a crash you're not driving safely. And they disagree on speed limit decisons anyway, so this wouldn't make disagreements any more common than they are now. The Autobahn uses this system. (albeit combined with mechanical help in the form of restrictions)

 

4. People who need money would apply to the government, who would issue government money. The government would naturally not act irresponsibly with people's money, and would only expect the money to be paid back at the original price. Startups and incentives and subsidies would not count as 'money lending'. Also there would be no interest. Investment itself is interest enough for anyone. The government is not for profit. It's for progress.

 

5. People living together who have children are 'married' as soon as this arises. If they know what's best for them they'll think good and hard before making such a bold step. Communal living would be unaffected by this rule. Also this rule may well require couples to declare they are 'married' in the purely economic sense. However once they become a 'family' proper they would be held in a bond so as their children should grow up well. If they do not look after their children government officers would take charge.

 

"

As far as I'm concerned, two people sharing a flats are not to be considered married, but  a household. Tax should not be deducted per person or per married couple, but per household, with children being calculated as half-adults that "pay" half the tax. As children don't pay taxes, this saves the household money.(By doing it that way, the french have a much higher birth rate than germany or italy, as having kids saves you money)"

 

This last policy of mine may indeed need to be re-looked at. I was considering an ideal scenario where each household has two adults and children, but naturally declaring themselves to be a couple would be another method. Yes one could tax based purely on no. of adults, and that is how I'd tax them. Couples would be taxed separately. However married people and children would be considered units for other purposes. Off the top of my head I can't think of any.

 

Also I would change the age at which one becomes legally an 'adult' to sixteen. This would be the age of being able to buy alcohol, mairjuana, a car licence etc. Simplifying things a single national identity card would exist issued at this age. Prior to this children would have a child identity card. Possibly also a chip like dogs so as to verify identity in extreme cases.

 

Naturally all these policies are highly idealistic and based on cookie cutter houses and families. In reality this would be an ideal worked towards gradually, or as a general direction of policy. 

 

Believe it or not my main ideal I am trying to uphold is personal liberty and freedom, while of course retaining enough state moderation in order to preserve society's structure and mechanics.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

Government hand-outs of printed money are inflationary, and in this system that's a bad move.  It is also a form of either socialism or communism depending on your point of view.  I like our mixed socialist/capitalist system, but the revenue needed to support things like the Canada Health Act (medicare) is exorbitant mostly due to the leeches hanging on to the body of the system.  Other than grants from the federal government, health care in Canada is a provincial responsibility.  Ontario handles this with a payroll tax.  It isn't enough, so hospitals also have fund raising campaigns, especially for capital equipment and buildings.  Effectively the local taxpayer shoulders the burden, spreading it out over the taxpaying base.

 

Quite often when a business is starting up, it needs accommodation capital to cover its expenses for the first three years.  They should be able to borrow some of this on a secured basis using their assets as security for the loan.  Such assets include accounts receivable.  Since many businesses are not capital stock companies, the principals of the business often put up their private assets in a start up as well.

 

It is important to distinguish between the idea of money and physical currency.  Both are matters of faith and trust.  Money is a fiction that we've all agreed to believe in.  Currency is the physical manifestation of money supplied, but not created by, governments.  Money is created by the banking institutions.  I was a retail banker for many years, and creating money is as simple as giving a customer a loan:  you debit your loan account and credit the customer.  It is a zero sum game.

[AkemiAzula 280]

Hmm. Technically I don't feel quite right with the entire concept of money, aside from being used for measuring the usefulness of a thing. But who can argue there is a suitable replacement?

 

Well as to printing money if I was a governor I'd want to start with something clean. A blank slate. But that isn't going to happen. In theory I despise Keynesian policies because they feel dishonest. My father gambles away his money in pokies. He was made bankrupt a while ago. I don't tend to look quite kindly at dishonesty regarding money. But as you so rightly say what is money? Just a fabrication, a mere representation of true value. 

 

My system is communistic, yes. In that the government provides, regardless of economic circumstances, all individuals there basic necessities. This is so as citizens can concentrate on more important and constructive things rather than worrying about paying for healthcare or rent, which perpetuates poverty and the 'bread and circuses' culture of today's cities. I am possibly idealistic, yes.

 

I would like to think that I could get on a train because I am an honest person, rather than because I've paid a fare. I'd like to think that I'd be entitled to a house/job/whatever because I was a good person not because I had money or friends in high places. I think the most basic of things shouldn't have to be fought for, because it cheapens humanity and makes us all savages and simple beasts just trying to get by. What sort of a civilization is that? What is the point in such a thing?

 

Capitalism appealed to my younger self because I was always the sort of person who did things and if I had had an opportunity I probably would have excelled at that sort of thing. Communism started to appeal to me once I got benefits and started looking for work, trying to find an affordable flat etc. Obviously my ideas are subjective.

 

But rationally objectively speaking I don't think anyone could argue that the present state of things is ideal. Tax avoidance by large firms and individuals and the problems of unemployment and homelessness etc require solutions. And I don't think by clinging to the status quo of money and capitalism this will happen. I think money needs to be rethought. We need something representative of true value, not purely of 'value' in a business sense.

 

The capitalist model makes sense of course because of its Darwinian nature. It isn't civilized, but it gets the job done. However as a pauper I can hardly go with the flow, however fast and successful the current may be. One has to rebel against these things, if purely because I do not benefit from them. 

 

Like I said most issues in the current election didn't effect me. I couldn't really care less whether we get a national broadband network or not. And the issues here in England similarly do not effect me. HS2? I don't live in Birmingham. I would tentatively say it is a mistake to build it at great cost. If this were Simcity who knows what I'd do. Probably delete the whole region. Either that or build the Mayor's house on the Isles of Scilly or Bermuda or something.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

I think Mark wants the Star Trek economic system where you can have anything you want within reason.  Unfortunately, it is fictional but even then it happens in the 24th century after one or more world wars and some serious dislocation.  Live long and prosper.

[Mary Maurine Mayo 984]

I myself am a conservative. America is losing her freedom more and more each day. we as Americans need to wake up before its to late.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

True.  If you erode freedom in the name of safety, you are less free.

[AkemiAzula 280]

There's certainly little in the way of freedom in this world, not just the US. If I had any freedom I wouldn't be living with my mad mother and my ageing grandfather working as a volunteer at a run down nursery that is losing money (it's charity run). I'd be playing Simcity 5 for starters, because had I the freedom I would start a Kickstarter or somesuch thing and do something about this failure in the franchise's train.

[Metalpuritan 161]

I completely disagree with that.  There is a great amount of freedom, especially here in the U.S.A..  At any given time you can throw away everything you have and move to another state.  You can choose to live on the street if you want.  You can work hard and make a fortune if you want.

 

I once had a girlfriend who had bipolar disorder, when she went manic she lived in a dream world where the sun never set and flowers grew everywhere, no, seriously, this is what she actually saw when she went manic.  This is not reality however.  The reality is, life is pain and then we die.  She wouldn't even take her lithium pills because when she did it "made her depressed", which is actually just "normal" actually.  She liked her delusional world so much she wouldn't take her medication, and I don't blame her.

 

Fact of the matter is the more you want to "live" the less free you are.  The way I see it is, if you are not willing to make the ultimate sacrifices that need to be made in the name of freedom, you don't deserve, nor shall you have freedom.  Freedom is not in fact free at all, it never has been and never will be, and it does not cost money and does not look like T.V.s and video games, it is not gold chains or fancy cars.  There is an extremely high price associated with freedom, the price is so high you cannot even put a monetary value on it.  The only currency that pays for freedom is human blood.

 

So if one wants true freedom, one must ask him/herself "What am I willing to give up to attain said freedom?"  If one is unwilling to make any sacrifices than one just has to live with what they have.

 

Personally, I think I am the most free person I know, I have never met anyone more free than I am.  One day it hit me, I have too much stuff, I literally sold or gave away everything I owned.  I lived in a very large 1 bedroom apartment at the time.  I had so much stuff in that apartment I couldn't even see the base boards.  I wanted to move but I had so much stuff I couldn't leave even if I wanted to.  I had a very nice paying job that extremely had high demands physically and mentally, I gave that up too.  So there I am in an empty apartment with nothing.  It hit me right away, "I can clean this place in under 5 minutes."  What used to take hours(maybe even a whole day) to sweep and dust and vacuum and scrub clean now only takes 5 minutes, that is hours of freedom I just made available to myself, over my lifetime that equates to extra years of freedom.

 

It took me about one year to come up with a new plan.  I got myself a part time job working in the fast food industry, got rid of my apartment and got a smaller one as I no longer need that vast space(wasted space looking back on it).  I saved up for a bicycle.  I went shopping for a bicycle, I bought my first bike from Wal-Mart, I didn't know it yet but that was a huge mistake.  Remember I am just now learning, er, relearning how to live and live in a way I had never lived before.  I quickly learned that things bought from large retailers is actually garbage in every sense of the word.  This bike, was so broken, even before I left the store with it, half the gears didn't work, the brakes were a safety hazard, the overall quality of the product was the worst, but I still didn't realize that, not quite yet.  After a while I got very good at rising my bike everywhere and before I knew I was travelling 20+ miles a day, to work and back, going to the store and back, going to my friend's house everyday and back, easily 20 miles a day.  

 

During my bicycle experience I made some other moves as well.  I got some cooking equipment.  I spent about $600.00 on the best cookware money could buy.  I started cooking from scratch.  I no longer kept food in the house so if I wanted to eat, it was time to go to the store.  It hit me, I need a strict shopping list system.  I cannot carry impulse buys and it actually costs money to store food.  One normally does not think about square footage whent hey calculate costs of their food, but the more food you want to store the more space you have to have to store it.  This cookware will outlive me, meals will be prepared in this cookware long after I am dead.  All steel, no screws, no teflon, no garbage.  

 

Also because everything I do now is outside, I am now practically immune to the heat so I can get rid of air conditioning for good I haven't lived in air conditioning in years now.  I decided that my nights were too dark, I didn't have a lamp, I got a desk lamp with an LED bulb, it is still to this day the only light in my home.

 

My clothes began to wear and tear on me, most notably my belts, from all the sweating and exposure to the environment I was getting they kept on deteriorating and it was frustrating.  Every couple of months I had to replace it, I had to throw the old one away, which is now a "nono" as I am beginning now to realize that practically everything out there is garbage.  It donned on me, leather!  The belts I had been buying were made from leather, not made of leather.  I found a leather shop, a real leather shop.  I walked in and asked the old guy at the counter to make me a belt out of the thickest leather he had.  He found some leather scrap he had laying around and showed it to me, it was a quarter inch thick, I had no idea leather came in thicknesses like that, he said there was thicker leather out there but it was illegal as it was rhino leather and killing rhinos is illegal and so is the possession of the leather.  I had him make me a belt out of the leather he had.  I also told him to find the most durable buckle he had.  Once I saw the leather I knew, I would have this belt for the rest of my life.  Yeah, almost a decade later, I am still to this day wearing the same belt and it still looks just like new, you can barely tell what hole I use even.

 

It hit me then, everything has to be custom made for me.  Now things get interesting.  I now become involved in the creation of the things I own.  I am beginning to realize now that I am in control, and it all started with a belt, of all things!  Who knew?  

 

Soon after this my bike began to break down on me, all the plastic pieces began to deteriorate.  I saved up even more money, I was going to have a bike custom made for me.  Now remember, I am working at a fast food restaurant, money is in short supply so everything I want I have to save up for now, I no longer deal in credit, everything is cash now or it just isn't happening.  Which coincidentally lead me to another rule I now live by, "If I cannot do business with you face to face, we just don't do business."  So I saved up the money for a bike, I got together about $600.00 and went to a REAL bike shop.  I looked around and found a bike that was best suited for me, who does a mixture of both off road and road travel, by this time I have become quite good at riding a bike, streets no longer mattered to me.  It had a price tag of $500.00, I didn't have it custom made because I didn't have to, it was already of a superior quality.  All The parts on my current bike are made of plastic and all the same parts on this bike are made of metal, that is the way it should have been from the start, which again, coincidentally lead me to another rule I now live by, "No shopping at large retail stores all they sell is garbage,"  Literally, you use it then you throw it away, this is not what my life is about anymore.  So goodbye to the big box marts, never again have I se tfoot in these stores.  Yes, I am too good for them now and now I realize it.

 

Well, about two years in I realized I didn't know so much and need to know more, more of everything, I began to be unsatisfied with the knowledge I had and wanted more.  Where do I find more information about everything? Certainly not the T.V. and I cannot use the library, that is just too inefficient and I don;t have the time for inefficiency.  I need a computer!  So I go shopping for a computer and quickly realize that I need a lot of money to get superior quality.  I figure up about three thousand dollars.  I save up three thousand dollars and do some real shopping.  With my newfound confidence in myself I decide to make my own computer, well, buy the parts and put it together myself anyway.  That is exactly what I do, so here I am today talking to you all on it.  Of course this computer though in the same case I bought then, the guts have all been replaced by now, the original iteration was almost 10 years ago.  I found I actually save money now and only have to replace parts her and there, nothing too difficult to handle, a pretty good deal.

 

Somewhere along the way I came up with a new rule to live by, "Everything I own must fit into the backseat of a car.  Now This means I cannot have a computer desk. or it would be the only thing I could own as it would take up the back seat of a car by itself.  So I got creative, I stole some milk crates from my local gas station and my monitors sit on those now, when I have to move they double as storage for my computer stuff as well.  They are also durable and look to last for quite sometime and they are everywhere so I should have no difficult time replacing them when need be.  I found a very small wooden table, only about a foot wide by a foot long laying on the street one day as I was riding my bike, I took it home and cut the legs off and that is now my mouse table, the closest thing to furniture in my entire home aside from my chair which is one of those little rocking chairs, they call them "gaming chairs" but I use it for sitting.  So there, my two pieces of furniture.  

 

I had long since been without a bed, replaced with a cot, beds are nasty things anyway.  I once bought a mattress for two thousand dollars, in 6 months it was completely wore out, what a waste.  Now I sleep in this cot, and to be honest I never got a better nights sleep.  Sure for the first couple of weeks with a new mattress the sleeping is heavenly but after that is practically garbage.  Again, this cot is likely to outlive me and is repairable by me as well should the canvas tear, I can just sew it.  I swear though, I got a few back problems and this cot has given me consistently good sleep with no cramps in the morning for nearly a decade.  It is also much cooler in the summer thana  bed is.  When I sleep I take this little floor fan I have And point at me so that half the air goes under the cot and the other half goes over the cot(and me), it is beautiful.

 

I purchased all the necessary tools I need to maintain everything I have and do regular maintenance on everything, as I have just only a few things this doesn't even take long.

 

The end result?  Freedom.  I don't even pay taxes as I make so little money I get everything back at the end of the year, my bills are cut so far back they are hardly a consideration, I can throw everything into the back seat of a car and leave if I so choose to and I can quit my job at anytime as there are literally hundreds of thousands of jobs just like it elsewhere.  I am a nomad in a stationery world.  Freedom amongst slavery, sustainable when everything is on borrowed time, I am free, truly free, free from you, free from my own devices.

 

If you live in the U.S. and you do not feel free, it because of your own devices, this is what I learned.  I had at one time created a prison for myself, it was not done to me, I did it to myself, as everyone else is doing to themselves.  Which brings me to my final rule, "I must always be willing to give it all up."

 

The actual rules as I typed them many years ago:

 

1.  Everything I own must fit into the backseat of a car.

2.  Everything I own bust be repairable by me or by a local shop.

3.  Everything I own must be of the highest quality, custom made for me.

4.  All business is done face to face or we just don't do business.

5.  All shopping must done from a list.

6.  No food in the house, if I want it I need to go and get it.

7.  Everything is Cash only.

8.  Always Logic before emotion.

9.  Right and wrong and nothing in between.

10.  There is a time and a place for everything with no exception to anything.

11.  I must be willing to throw it all away if ever I so choose to or need to. nothing is sacred.

 

It has been a long time since I have looked at this list.  

 

I live happily and freely and I will die as I live.

 

My views on politics are governed within rules 8, 9, and 10.  Logic before emotion, means that all things must be thought out and supported with facts first regardless of my emotions on any given subject.  Right and wrong and nothing in between means I am willing to fight, kill, go to prison or die for what I believe is the "right thing", if I am not willing to fight, kill, go to prison or die for it then whatever it is I am doing or saying is not right and therefore breaking my own rule.  There is a time and a place for everything with no exception to anything means that all options are actually on the table at all times, this includes genocide and other smaller or even larger acts of violence, it also includes peace and love, but there is no exception to this rule, all actions no matter how small or large, good or bad fit within this rule, even the breaking of my rules if it came to it, there are no exceptions to rule number 10.

 

This is actually how I live my life.  I live as if I have nothing to lose and have my back up against a wall constantly.  Uncomfortable is my normal, nothing is convenient in my life.  My life would break most people if they suddenly tried to live like this, they would have to go on the journey of discovery like I did or it would surely break them, there were many times during my journey that I questioned whether or not it was all worth it, I can safely say today that it is indeed all worth it, no doubt in my mind.  I spent the first 22 years of my life in a self imposed prison(180 days of the real thing though at one point).  My stay in jail is what the catalyst was.  Before that I was just a drug and alcohol addict with zero sense of direction in life.  I got 180 days in jail for a crime I committed and got caught for and during this time I got clean, was forced to get clean, I began to work out, like hard core work out, I went in a wasted life and came out as a well oiled machine, built like an ox and ready to go.  

 

I looked at my time in jail in reflection and realized that I could actually be comfortable living like I was in actual jail constantly.  A simple bed, a simple life, simple meals, simple schedule.  Of course I have the freedom touch, I have a computer and my bicycle which allows me access to information and travel, respectively, things I didn't have during my incarceration.  I had no idea what freedom was or what it is was worth until I lost my freedom, then I knew, then and only then did I understand what freedom actually is, I suspect that this misunderstanding of freedom is very common.  I consider myself normal in every way, average height, average weight, average lifestyle, so it is inconceivable to me that I am the only one who did not know what freedom was until I had lost it all.  I suspect that most of my peers(don't be offended but "most" likely includes you who are reading this now) have no idea what freedom is and it's worth.  You may not believe this but freedom is worth dying for, even if that means you never get to taste it yourself, it is worth it to die for someone else's freedom even.

 

Freedom cannot be obtained, you cannot put it in your pocket, you cannot hold it in hand or hang it around your neck or put it on a shelf, you cannot own freedom, only the most aware of us know we have it, everyone else only knows when they don't have it, freedom can only be sought after, you will never reach it, but it is the pursuit of freedom that can be defined as freedom.  Coincidentally, the same can be said about happiness.  Is it really a coincidence though? Hmmmm....

[AkemiAzula 280]

"My views on politics are governed within rules 8, 9, and 10.  Logic before emotion, means that all things must be thought out and supported with facts first regardless of my emotions on any given subject.  Right and wrong and nothing in between means I am willing to fight, kill, go to prison or die for what I believe is the "right thing", if I am not willing to fight, kill, go to prison or die for it then whatever it is I am doing or saying is not right and therefore breaking my own rule.  There is a time and a place for everything with no exception to anything means that all options are actually on the table at all times, this includes genocide and other smaller or even larger acts of violence, it also includes peace and love, but there is no exception to this rule, all actions no matter how small or large, good or bad fit within this rule, even the breaking of my rules if it came to it, there are no exceptions to rule number 10."

 

Good to see I am not the only one who thinks logically. Your post is very interesting. However the problem is that

 

1. Most people are, like you say, unaware of this true freedom

and 2. Many people exist in cultures and families where true freedom is frowned upon and they are forced by the people around them to remain slaves 

 

Also even you admit in your story that money is necessary and a job is necessary. 

 

I can understand where you're coming from, certainly. The anti-consumerist tone of quality over quantity etc. However being realistic as you say most people wouldn't want to live like you, even if it meant 'true' freedom. Freedom as you say has its price. 

 

The problem is that freedom is meant to be there so we can have the things we want in life, not as an alternative to them. The problem with this world is we are always between a rock and a hard place, and our personal values may well influence what we end up choosing, but it's always going to be made of some stone. 

 

I hate this world. However politically I don't think 'freedom' in the way you describe would be marketable to people. In a democracy freedom is unpopular. It represents dangers and uncertainties, and democratics like peace and safety above all else. 

 

Sorry if I sound somewhat depressing in my thoughts. But really I can't read your post and smile and go to work whistling a merry tune. What you say is quite right. But hardly good. I suppose in order to end on a light note I'll say that I agree that leather should be proper and metal is superior to plastic in bike construction. My bike is from a 'big box store' but it's frame is steel. The plastic bits will probably fail, but it only cost me 100 pounds and I get 56 pounds per week simply being on benefits so... 

 

I think a lot of people in America are not free. They are constrained by social, religious, and economic bonds. And freedom gained by people like you who are powerful enough to break this... Freedom of such a bleak and real nature... Would not be enough of an appeal to most of them. Alas I see no freedom, just relative limitations.

 

Can the pursuit of freedom be freedom? Well alas I don't think there is enough freedom to even pursue freedom for that...

 

Possibly I am too simple in my thoughts but if I wished, for instance, to move to anywhere I wished in the world, conquer a tract of land about me and build a castle in which to live, that would not be possible. However 'free' I might personally be. I'd have more luck if I was living in a dream world to accomplish these things. But the truth is the highest of things, and honesty is the finest of virtues.