Class Action Lawsuit Against Aspyr

[nspeds 0]

 Hi everyone,

I'm a law student, and I'm thinking of launching a class action suit against Aspyr. Namely, several key features in the game simply are not functioning (hello? night lights for BAT buildings?), and performance is terrible... even on top of the line Macs. Some of you may think that this is pointless, but I feel that this could give Aspyr the kick in the pants they need to work with their customers a little more.

Tell me your thoughts.

[TEG24601 32]

Pointless and incorrect.

The night lights can be fixed by the creators, performance it just fine. Plus, there is no way to sue Aspyr for these problems, you would be better off suing EA for not forcing Aspyr to keep their quality up.

[nspeds 0]

Shouldn't lighting work out of the box?

And performance isn't just fine. After all the patches, my Intel iMac runs the game poorly, and there are many other threads about this on the forum.

I'm not sure how you can't sue Aspyr for these problems. They made a product, the product doesn't perform per specification, therefore, we should get our money back. There is an implied warranty at play here. Really, this is law school stuff you wouldn't understand.

[hamsterTK 93]

Don't you figure they'll just quit distributing the game and then Mac Users will be doubly boned

[nspeds 0]

Aspyr is already on the ropes because it's easier for developers to port games in-house (i.e., Cyder with EA, etc.).

[david1314 44]

Originally posted by: nspeds

 Hi everyone,

I'm a law student, and I'm thinking of launching a class action suit against Aspyr. Namely, several key features in the game simply are not functioning (hello? night lights for BAT buildings?), and performance is terrible... even on top of the line Macs. Some of you may think that this is pointless, but I feel that this could give Aspyr the kick in the pants they need to work with their customers a little more.

Tell me your thoughts.quote>

Well, one of these days in law school will come the day when you learn a judge certifies a class initiating the 'class action'.  You must first file a complaint, propose a class, and get it certified....you cannot 'file a class action law suit'.

I think you may be jumping the gun a bit.

[lgbrave4life 1]

I mean if it really bothers you that much not having night lights, you know there are special patches you can download to get night lights don't ya... Just look it up in the ST forums from when people have had the same problems in the past. Several people have givin guides and walkthroughs on how to find them and download them. That's how I found the patches.

[nspeds 0]

Whoops. Yeah, we *just* started joinder in CivPro. We should be doing class action next. Sorry, we Yalies tend to do things differently.

[nspeds 0]

Originally posted by: lgbrave4life

I mean if it really bothers you that much not having night lights, you know there are special patches you can download to get night lights don't ya... Just look it up in the ST forums from when people have had the same problems in the past. Several people have givin guides and walkthroughs on how to find them and download them. That's how I found the patches.quote>

This doesn't make sense. As far as I know, and have researched, there is some work that needs to be done on each individual building. That's time consuming.

[lgbrave4life 1]

Originally posted by: nspeds

Originally posted by: lgbrave4life

I mean if it really bothers you that much not having night lights, you know there are special patches you can download to get night lights don't ya... Just look it up in the ST forums from when people have had the same problems in the past. Several people have givin guides and walkthroughs on how to find them and download them. That's how I found the patches.quote>

This doesn't make sense. As far as I know, and have researched, there is some work that needs to be done on each individual building. That's time consuming.

quote>

Well I don't know what else to tell ya, that wasn't the deal with me though. When I downloaded the 2 patches, it worked for every building all at once. I didn't have to work on or do anything to any building.

[nspeds 0]

Originally posted by: lgbrave4life

Originally posted by: nspeds

Originally posted by: lgbrave4life

I mean if it really bothers you that much not having night lights, you know there are special patches you can download to get night lights don't ya... Just look it up in the ST forums from when people have had the same problems in the past. Several people have givin guides and walkthroughs on how to find them and download them. That's how I found the patches.quote>

This doesn't make sense. As far as I know, and have researched, there is some work that needs to be done on each individual building. That's time consuming.

quote>

Well I don't know what else to tell ya, that wasn't the deal with me though. When I downloaded the 2 patches, it worked for every building all at once. I didn't have to work on or do anything to any building.

quote>

Could you please link me to the two patches? I somehow can't seem to find them.

[nspeds 0]

Originally posted by: lgbrave4life

Originally posted by: nspeds

Originally posted by: lgbrave4life

I mean if it really bothers you that much not having night lights, you know there are special patches you can download to get night lights don't ya... Just look it up in the ST forums from when people have had the same problems in the past. Several people have givin guides and walkthroughs on how to find them and download them. That's how I found the patches.quote>

This doesn't make sense. As far as I know, and have researched, there is some work that needs to be done on each individual building. That's time consuming.

quote>

Well I don't know what else to tell ya, that wasn't the deal with me though. When I downloaded the 2 patches, it worked for every building all at once. I didn't have to work on or do anything to any building.

quote>

Could you please link me to the two patches? I somehow can't seem to find them.

[lgbrave4life 1]

I will try my hardest to try to find them, it was awhile back so... but if I do find them though, I will immediately post the link up to you.

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

Try this.

https://www.sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=

And this game is known to have issues with newer systems, especially Macs. Plus, the poor performance has a good deal to do with the quantity and type of custom content installed. Nonce of these are the fault of the developer, since (a) they don't design games for systems 6 years in the future (systems & technology that does not exist), (b) have no control over what you actually install in addition to what the company produced.

You would have some valid points if this were 2003 and the game didn't function out of the box (and with the official patches), but this is 2009 and there is a gigantic amount of additional content the company is not responsible for.

-Todd

[lgbrave4life 1]

I think I might of found it for you. Hope it works out for ya

https://www.sc4devotion.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=

Looks like I was a second to late to SimHoTToDDy Oh well either way I hope it works!

[DuskTrooper 316]

Umm, isn't there a legal waiver you automatically agree to when installing any software or whatever?

Whatever, I say go ahead with your lawsuit. Keep us updated with your progress. Yeah....

[bwatterud 7]

Originally posted by: lgbrave4life

Originally posted by: nspeds

Originally posted by: lgbrave4life

I mean if it really bothers you that much not having night lights, you know there are special patches you can download to get night lights don't ya... Just look it up in the ST forums from when people have had the same problems in the past. Several people have givin guides and walkthroughs on how to find them and download them. That's how I found the patches.quote>

This doesn't make sense. As far as I know, and have researched, there is some work that needs to be done on each individual building. That's time consuming.

quote>

Well I don't know what else to tell ya, that wasn't the deal with me though. When I downloaded the 2 patches, it worked for every building all at once. I didn't have to work on or do anything to any building.

quote>

that's because you're playing the PC version, on Windows.  Aspyr never released nightlighting patches for the Mac version

[nspeds 0]

Contracts that waive all liability usually don't hold water, and I doubt EAGames used such terms in their contract.

I was warned by a classmate, though, that there might be an arbitration agreement that I entered into by virtue of playing the game. I'm not sure whether that can be overturned, but in that event, class action ain't happening.

Originally posted by: DuskTrooper

Umm, isn't there a legal waiver you automatically agree to when installing any software or whatever?

Whatever, I say go ahead with your lawsuit. Keep us updated with your progress. Yeah....

quote>

[DuskTrooper 316]

Still, why would a class action suit, let alone ANY lawsuit be called for here? it isn't like there has been any substantial loss in property, or any personal injuries that have been caused by this game. Furthermore, "poor performance" of software and minor issues do not equate to any substantial data loss, or hardware damage.

The time and effort required to even start such a preposterous and cockamamy suit would far outweigh anything you would collect anyway. Besides, what exactly would the winnings consist of? It isn't like you're filing suit over a crucial banking program that misplaces a few decimals here and there; this is a GAME.

Please elaborate more on this scheme of yours, and go into deep legal details. I find this whole arrangement hilarious, with touches of delusions of grandeur.

BEKUZ SC4=SRS BZNS U GUISE

[bwatterud 7]

Originally posted by: DuskTrooper

Please elaborate more on this scheme of yours, and go into deep legal details. I find this whole arrangement hilarious, with touches of delusions of grandeur. quote>

Basically this.  I mean, good luck and stuff if you actually try this, but I seriously doubt that it will go anywhere.  I mean, it's a computer game.  It's not like Aspyr was legally obligated to support it after they released it.  And isn't there more important stuff going on right now? 

[sobol 1]

Waste of time.

[saltandsauce 0]

what you shouuld do is sue Electronic Arts for killing competition andgenerally being a bunch of pricks

[MayorCain 2]

Performance of the game isnt really a legal issue here is it?

The coding and operating systems for both Mac and Windows are vastly different, and as such since Sim City 4 was written on the Windows platform means when porting the software to a different operating system, performance may be an issue. If you want to be pedantic about suing a porting company, why not sue Ubisoft for porting Rainbow 6 Vegas 1 and 2 from the Xbox 360 to the PS3 and the graphics looking awful in comparison, and framerates being terrible too. Why not sue Capcom for porting Resident Evil 5 from the PS3 to the Xbox 360 and not preventing the huge amount of image clipping and minor performance issues. Shall I go on? While we are at it, because its kind of a similar scenario if you look at it metaphorically, why not sue all foreigners for speaking in broken English when they move to an English speaking country because they have not learned the language properly, and then we can sue every person who moves to a country that is not of their native tongue and speaks in the countrys language, but broken.

Because in a similar respect, Mac OS and Windows are vastly different languages and when 'translated from one to another' things get lost in translation.

[nspeds 0]

The basis of a lawsuit would be this, Breach of contract. On Aspyr's website and in the product, Simcity 4 is advertised as being able to perform certain functions. Those functions don't really work optimally, or at all in some instances, rendering the product distinct from the one you expected to have when you paid 49.95.

What would the remedy be? It depends. We probably wouldn't get specific performance in terms of Aspyr fixing the game (though that might be a better option). What we could get, though, is expectation damages, which would comprise the monetary value of the difference between the product we should have had and the one we actually received. Since these damages are difficult to quantify, maybe specific performance would be better. It depends on the Uniform Commercial Code.

(About the topic, not each other)

EDIT: I think it's pretty hilarious that, as consumers, you are willing to be so dominated by corporate identities. It's always been known that in our mass-consumerist society, the buyer is almost always in a worse bargaining position, making them susceptible to unfair contract terms and abuse. The fact that consumers are willing to acquiesce to this abuse just tells these companies that what they're doing is right.

(there is also an edit function, so please do not double post)

[DuskTrooper 316]

Originally posted by: nspeds

The basis of a lawsuit would be this (Dusktrooper's naive perspective seems to focus exclusively on tort liability; that would, indeed, be a stupid lawsuit to engage in): Breach of contract. On Aspyr's website and in the product, Simcity 4 is advertised as being able to perform certain functions. Those functions don't really work optimally, or at all in some instances, rendering the product distinct from the one you expected to have when you paid 49.95.

What would the remedy be? It depends. We probably wouldn't get specific performance in terms of Aspyr fixing the game (though that might be a better option). What we could get, though, is expectation damages, which would comprise the monetary value of the difference between the product we should have had and the one we actually received. Since these damages are difficult to quantify, maybe specific performance would be better. It depends on the Uniform Commercial Code.quote>

The contract here, once again, isn't something that has substantial value behind it.  It is a game; entertainment, and nothing more.  It is not a crucial banking software or nuclear simulator whose failure has led to more than just a frustrated gameplayer.  Sure, there are instances where failed entertainment has resulted in a refund (ie rained out ballgames, etc), but those instances usually have a much larger liability than a computer game.

 

However, if the product does indeed NOT perform according to the advertised functions, then please gather sufficient evidence in various forms to present to us, in order to prove your case. 

Still, the monetary damages issue is absurd.  The main thing here that amuses me is the attitude of entitlement; the desire to "get what we deserve".  It's a damn game, and to believe that the manufacturers would hold to their word 100% to any product is beyond naiive.  As stated above; life isn't fair; it never has been, never will be.  You could simply vote with your feet and move to another competing product.  If I had that attitude with the way things in life have been, I would have filed many suits long ago against many entities, including the Church, school, my parents, etc.  Sure, they had the disclaimer now and then that "life is not fair". Since life has proven to be even more "unfair" then they stated beforehand.  Hell, fairness is in the eye of the beholder; you can turn anything to your advantage or disadvantage.

 EA may hold the monopoly with SC4, but it's all we have at the moment.  You could take your tenacity with this scheme, and perhaps take it to Monte Cristo to convince them to make a decent working version of CXL for Mac. Since EA's product is no good, then move on; this will empower the competition of EA, and give them more clout; they do deserve it after all since Monte Cristo has been working with us in regards to CXL.

But hey, if your aim here is to go after the "big bad corporations" and the way they kick "us consumers" around is your goal, then I say go for it.  You will just join the list of vain martyrs who went about a revolution the wrong way.  The road to hell is paved with those who had good intentions.

Please tell your professor about your plan.  I would love to hear his response. 

PS: perhaps it's your own fault for expecting a game to function on a MAC; something that does not have many games on it.  Once again, life is unfair, and there are few choices it seems, but what can you do, eh?  Frivoluous lawsuits would not acheive anything; the only way to change things is to vote with your feet and dollars by supporting other companies that provide better products.  By attempting to portray the "big evil corporations" as monsters in a massive conspiracy theory where they control us all gives them more power and attention than they deserve.

But hey, good luck with all that, and I srsly want to see what else you have to say.  I'd actually LOVE to be proven wrong; you just have not been able to substantiate anything you've said so far.

This is like suing the tip of the iceberg for sinking the Titanic; it doesn't clearly advertise the large mass below, but it's there, and you have to deal with it.  Next time, steer clear.  

(About the topic, not each other)

[nspeds 0]

(About the topic, not each other please)

"However, if the product does indeed NOT perform according to the advertised functions, then please gather sufficient evidence in various forms to present to us, in order to prove your case. "

That's why I posted here. I wanted to see what the consensus was on the game's advertised functions and its actual performance.

Instead, I received responses from non-lawyers/law students, telling me the legitimacy of my case. For instance, you raise the distinction between banking software and games. That's not really a distinction that influences the validity of my claim; rather, it influences possible damages (which is a determination that the jury makes), or whether there will be monetary damages at all (instead of, say, specific performance, which I think is a more desirable remedy).

You speak as if I'm fighting against massive corporations as a disgruntled consumer, but that's really not the case. I just think that many people in this community were shafted by not receiving a product they expected and paid for. That the claim is unlikely to yield little monetary value is (a) insignificant and (b) untrue when you calculate total damages in the aggregate (since I intend for this to be a class-action claims). It's with these types of cases that class action doctrine is intended to deal. It empowers consumers to file a suit for something of relatively insignificant monetary value to THEM, but in the aggregate means a lot to the company being sued.

You'd think that the #1 law school in the nation would provide me with the legal education I needed for these things. What I came here for was to assess whether the game is performing within its parameters. You might argue that a game is not meant to function properly six years down the line. Games don't degrade over time. The only variable is the advancement of hardware and software, rendering the game unsupportable. But in that event, I bet you hard cash that if I brought you a Mac the game was "supposed" to function on, with the right operating system installed, we would still be getting bad performance, night-light bugs, the avenue/highway bug that was fixed in the P.C. version, etc.

By the way, I *did* speak to my professor; his only warning was with respect to the arbitration provision I adumbrated above. It's a standard component of adhesion contracts (like the ones we entered into when we purchased and installed the game).

(Watch the language please)

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

However, if the product does indeed NOT perform according to the advertised functions, then please gather sufficient evidence in various forms to present to us, in order to prove your case. "

That's why I posted here. I wanted to see what the consensus was on the game's advertised functions and its actual performance. quote>

quote>

Run it on a PC, don't use certain newer hardware, install all the official updates, don't use custom content. If you want it to run perfectly, that's what you have to do if it really bothers you that badly. You are using a different O.S. on hard ware that the game was not designed to run on with non-official content installed on the machine, many people on this site can tell you that will lead to issues for the reasons already stated many time above (mainly the Mac problem).

You might argue that a game is not meant to function properly six years down the line. That's bull*****. Games don't degrade over time. The only variable is the advancement of hardware and software, rendering the game unsupportable.quote>

And that is EXACTLY your problem!

BTW, I said "they don't design games for systems 6 years in the future (systems & technology that does not exist)". And I agree completely about games degrading over time, it doesn't happen.

But I don't blame you for this. You're neither a lawyer nor a law student. I didn't come here for legal advice. You'd think that the #1 law school in the nation would provide me with the legal education I needed for these things. What I came here for was to assess whether the game is performing within its parameters.quote>

I don't think anyone here in this thread claims to know any better than you in that respect, or judge the quality of your education. No offense, but I just don't think you are listening when we tell you about what we know about the game, unless I'm missing something in your posts.

---

On a lighter note... Did you install the updates we linked to you? They are a large part of your argument and I would like to see you get them working properly.

Best of luck,

-Todd

[DuskTrooper 316]

Keep in mind that our point of view is not the same as an esoteric language of law as you state yourself, so do not expect us to look at it the same way as you do. Thus, you cannot attempt to pigeonhole the various points as non sequiturs, and cliche; they hold water in one sense, but may not be interpreted as having any meaning in another sense. If you want to present this idea to others who are not law students, then you cannot speak purely in technicality; you'll have to utilize a language that others can understand.

But hey, if you can indeed formulate a significant case against them, then go for it. Keep us updated, and I'll buy you a drink if it gets heard.

Once again though, I want to see substantial comparisons between actual performance and the promised performance, along with the frequency and quantity of complains from the party you want to represent.

[unityx 1]

Wow, not even going to read all this. (thats all that needs to be said)

As much as I am ticked about game play. I would not sue! First for night lighting. It works fine! Only bats added by other users do not function. The included buildings provided with the game work fine. This is like suing Toyota beacuse my after-market Alpine deck wont plug right in! The game as shipped functions fine with lighting. Aspyr has MET the requirements here.

Performance. Its Intel related - read the system requirements. The game was not originally setup to run on Intel based Macs. This is also why the current patch for Intel based is BETA - as in unsupported but a gesture of good will. Although the patch seems to do nothing.

And the game is old. Your again trying to say that no matter what advances or change in hardware happen the game should still be supported and work? How many years should a software publisher HAVE to update software to continue to make it work? Maybe I should sue Aldus for not making there apps work in OS X on my Intel iMac?

Its called reason - learn to use it or you will be the joke at your school. Like that one guy who sued the dry cleaners for a half million for loosing his pants. I think a game this old has met its reasonable end of life long ago.

[Hamish 1,370]

Ok, firstly, Please keep it about the topic, and no about others.

And secondly, watch the language. I don't want to edit out any more...

Thirdly, here is my opinion on this. Why sue Aspyr? its not like they brought you this game, because if they didn't, no one would have. And also, night-lighting for user added content was never released in the windows game (as far as I know of) It was the updates that made the night lights appear. These updates were never released to aspyr at all. The updates that aspyr release are just simple bug fixes and they also to try and fix issues with the newer computers.

The original work superbly on the computers of the time. I just met the required specifications with my old computer, and it ran perfectly, until my plugins folder reached a couple of GB.

So in my opinion, and im no law student, but I don't see a case here.

But, please, no foul language, and talk about the topic, not about others. Think of this as everyones first warning.