Potential 'Dependency Manager' system

[concrete_mielie 0]

Hey all.

ASP (.NET) is not an option. Not only do i not really know it, but the bit that I have worked with it, it's been a nightmare filled with bulky excessiveness.

Sixer: It's not really that complex at all, you're right, but it's better to hash it all out to start with ... even the obvious stuff ... so that we can cover all the bases. I dont know much about the technical side of BATS and dependencies and so on, so anyone mentioning ideas about dependency ID's makes me add to my thought process that (for example) there's a need to search by ID. Easy peasy to integrate, but i never thought of it before

Speaking of which ... Warrior: of course there will be links, provided the 'original host' (i.e. STEX, SC4D etc) are willing to participate. If not, it's pretty useless...although at least having the name there 'would be a start'. Good idea on the ID. If i'm not mistaken, when someone makes a file that is a dependency, it gets given an ID ... and that ID is known by the maker, what's stopping them from entering it into the system (other than sheer laziness ... but then they can't upload, hahahah)

Doc: You 'can' connect to .accdb files but it's a nightmare via PHP. ODBC is an option as well. But truthfully, it's slow as hell. Access is a desktop-optimized database system, i've always found that it works well for local use in a small database, but with sharing and permissions issues, user access and large tables ... we should go with a lighter solution. Plus, Linux hosting with PHP/MySQL is simply cheaper. As for ODBC and connecting DIC to the database ... that might not even be necessary, you can get your program to execute a web-based script and the script can return XML (or any other data format, prefer XML though) which DIC could interpret.

[procarpenter 3]

try google you will find about 50 or so sites that have java tutorials and lots of code to make life easier also most programming sites carry a lot of java stuff to

[procarpenter 3]

I beg to differ regarding MS access as a db the db would not be that large as its only storing details to links not the actual dependencies .

also i would say that 90% of the users probably have ms office on the computers so d/l the db rather than waste time online searching t could be done offline on your own desktop.

i dougbt most users have mysql installed .

as a point of interest i have worked with clients that have access d/b's with over 400,000 records including data files embedded and there sites are relatively fast and have good search capabilities . Just my 2cents worth

[DocRorlach 25]

For my part, I won't get into the DB debate, my personal preference still lies with dBase III anyway (sic transit, sic data).

As for the DIC: I won't have any part in XML or some such, all I need is the final table definition, and a URL where to gain access to the DB from a user perspective, not an admin, since it is end users who are going to consult the Dependency Bank, not I.

If this is going to be some long drawn out debate about merits of this or demerits of that, ergo, design by comittee, count me out right now. I know that to be the road to absolutely nowhere.

CM, I suggest that, since you have the expertise, you get down to the brass-tags and create the thing already; then when you've got something to show your audience, maybe some additional tweaks can be introduced, but that's icing on the cake.

Edit:

procarpenter: I am with you there, but it is not necessary for the user to actually "use" the DB, either they search it online, or use something like the DIC, or download a CSV file they can import into anything they like. Since CM knows PHP/MySQL, that's the format he'll need to use. And once the thing is up, we can discuss the ins-and-outs.

[concrete_mielie 0]

Very authoritarian Doc

Alright, a lot of fleshing out has happened, much to think about and much more to do. I'll get cracking, and i'll keep you guys posted!

When i'm not too lazy, i'll add the blog link to my signature, haha.

procarpenter: I appreciate your comments, my work with Access hasn't been extensive, just going on what little I do know. I'm sure that a properly-designed Access database is just as efficient. Nevertheless, your idea for an offline version is an interesting one, and I think that on a monthly basis we could provide an offline version in Access format. That's something to think about after the online version is complete though.

[doorknob60 11]

What would excite me is a package manager similar to Ubuntu/Debian's apt-get or Arch's Pacman. Just picture it. 'st-get install nam' Ahh....I love package managers

[concrete_mielie 0]

Hahahaha doorknob. That would be pretty awesome actually. Not likely gonna happen, but who knows Go check the blog to keep tabs on the project!!

[CCFC 0]

If you guys need help I know HTML, a good bit of PHP, and MySQL. I work with that stuff all the time when I'm working on my sites, and I could host it but it depends on how much space and bandwidth it would take up. But due to it's so complex I could host some of it to ease the load from wherever this will be hosted.

[DocRorlach 25]

Is anything happening on this issue? Or has it died already - it seemed such a promising start..

[xBONESstyle 0]

you can do it, mielie.

you can has a dependency manager!

[Jezus53 18]

I think it just needs more people with the knowledge, time, and resources to do so. I would love to jump in on this, but I very little knowledge on it and no resources. I have time (though I should use that time for school and looking for a job) but that's it. Maybe after I take some classes. You can try PMing him about it.

[grbac80 5]

I'll just say that this is a very good idea and I hope this project will be brought to an end, erm..start . Unfortunately I cannot participate, I'm nowhere in programming. Cheers

[DocRorlach 25]

Judging by my own (and thus far futile attempts) on the matter, programming is the least of all worries. The real headache is two-fold:

a) finding out the actual dependencies for existing lots; and

b) getting the main fan sites to participate in the project by adding their existing knowledge about dependencies to the project - ergo, helping to solve a). It is here where the man needs help.

Finally, all lot, mod, or

bat

developers would have to add to the "bank" by listing their finished products there.

The whole idea makes a ton of sense: an independent site, without affiliation to any of the existing fan hubs, that would allow anyone to locate missing dependencies. Think about just how much easier the game would become. And all hat is really needed is that every download gets an extra ID, i.e., the listed number or code at the dependency bank.

He has a blog (listed in his signature), so everyone can already help by visiting the blog and encouraging him to proceed..

[grbac80 5]

^^^ Which is just what I did just to show support.

[concrete_mielie 0]

Hey all, long time ... real-world work has been keeping me chained to my office chair, lol!

I just want you all to know that the project has not died (a short hibernation happened, but no fatalities) and will never die. I don't let go of good ideas quite so easily

Anyway, I have registered a domain for it and set up some hosting. So although there's currently nothing there, you can go to http://www.my-simcity.com/ and see the awesomeness of the H2 tag! w00t! hehehe.

Will update my blog soon, blogger sucks at the moment through. Hmm. Time to set up a development blog on the new site methinks!!

Doc, grbac80 ... your support is truly appreciated, and it's the driving force behind keeping me going on this project!

[Jezus53 18]

Is there anything specific you need help with?

[concrete_mielie 0]

Hey Jezus53,

At the moment, the only thing that i could need is a start of compilation of some of the most popular addons and their dependencies as a Name + URL + Mod Category list, especially those addons that DON'T actually have any dependencies (because they can be added straight hehe

Also, if people could sloooowly start spreading the word about what the system is about, in an effort to get mod makers to simply learn of the existance of the concept. but that's not so important right now. Soon i'll also need some testers

I'm busy assembling and designing as we speak, i've been feeling very inspired!

[DocRorlach 25]

Glad to see progress is being made. You might want to look over what Diggis & xDita have assembled on SC4D in terms of lists. Probably neither up-to-date nor all-encompassing, but a good start. Further to this Cleanitol files are a good source since they often include URL's of dependent models/lots. In particular CAM files.

I will, in the next few days, try and assemble a list of known dependencies from the installations I have & forward it to you. Might be an idea to add a repository folder to your web site where the public can "dump" accumulated info.

Am not so hot as a tester (too impatient) but offer myself up nonetheless..

[Jezus53 18]

I can definitely start on making a list of what I have since I am almost done with school. I'll PM you when I have my list done.

[earwax_man 18]

This could be brilliant if put together properly!

[doorknob60 11]

I've thought of something sorta like this before. I was inspired after discoreving Package Managers like Synaptic, apt-get, and pacman (Linux). It keeps track of everything for you. What's installed, updates, and dependencies. A good package manager similar to any of the ones you'd find on Linux would be amazing for SC4. Here's some inspiration for you. http://www.nongnu.org/synaptic/action.html

EDIT: Whoa guess I've posted in here before... Oh well lol.

[grbac80 5]

Nice to hear this project is still up and running.

[d_j_p1 156]

Originally posted by: DocRorlach

Am not so hot as a tester (too impatient) but offer myself up nonetheless..quote>

This looks a very promising idea.

I would be happy to help test any developments, as long as Doc can spare me

[SC4BOY 20]

As might be expected this issue has been discussed MANY MANY times.. but the effort by Diggis is the only one that actually had any followthrough.. It isn't perfect, but it is very good. A thread discussing this approach and some of the in's and out's of it are linked below

Here is a message repeated below I posted some time ago extracted from that thread.. it contains the jist of what I'd like to see .. an approach which would be what many would like.. not perfect but very good. That link also links to the topic thread which one would benefit from scanning. The db would involve a (probably) 2d data base and would need to be online with at least some form of maintenance.. As time has passed the conscientious uploaders have become fairly sophisticated about keeping up with their dependencies, but of course many are weak or non-existent.. the non-existent one's tend to get run off..

The DATA currently available is fairly well maintained, though I expect Diggis has run out of gas on the effort to maintain it.  It contains only "dependency packs" not the individual dependencies.. that was the rub. For what it is, it is far better than anything else currently available. No doubt that would form an excellent start to any setup. I believe it is also available on the STEX DEPENDENCIY LIST but based on the "update date" it is about a year older than the CSXLEX one

(from Diggis) I'm not sure what you are after here.  If you are after a list of all the files that have been released with links to the latest version then thats what the dependency list should provide.  The downloadable version has an extra column telling you what package has replaced it.  All links should be to the latest version as of June.

if you are after a list of all possibly dependencies with links, given the sheer volume of files released and the fact that ANY file can be a dependency, then no it is not really possible.quote>

(my response) Sorry I was not very clear. Well sort of half and half.. What I'd like is a simple text file that has all files in it. When you do a search on the file it will be listed under a heading... That heading would then be looked up on the dependency list and I could find what megapack link there.. This would not need ANY active liinking of any sort.. just a file to do a CNTRL-F (find) search on.  Something like this:

XYZ_BATPROP_VOL01
abc.dat
def.dat
ghi.dat
lmn.model
... etc
XYZ_BATPROP_VOL02
... etc with the contents of this file

At most this would only need to be a 2D file.. no more orders of orthogonality.. (containerfile)x(itemfile)

If I had a authors dl and did a dependency search on and it said I needed ghi.dat, I would do a search on this big file above (it would not be printed out.. just the find so little bandwidth would be required) and I could see that I needed to get XYZ_BATPROP_VOL01. I would go to your great list, look up XYZ_BATPROP_VOL02 and find a link to the file that had ultimately the ghi.dat in it. If it turned out that that first find was not on the list, I would do a find on THAT file and would quickly narrow to a file that WOULD BE on the dependencies list.

An example is the FUKUDA HARBOR PACK where I need jeronij Muelle 1X V4 LISO CARGA-0x6534284a-0x0f55ca9c-0xd0af45d5.SC4Desc. I have not been able to find that file even though I have been asking patiently over a considerable time. I know I can edit the file and change that dependency, but at the time there were 7 dependencies that I could not find. .I stumbled on the other 6 sort of hit or miss.. Now that one is the only one I'm missing, but you see what I mean?.. This particular item is not the point here, just to say this would be the kind of thing that I would envision that I could find on this master list.

With repect to "all files by all people" I would only expect to find this data on the sort of quality file I might find on SC4D.. Of course sometime it would come up empty.. Well you can't have everything.. But I bet over a year's time or so that this file would become very good.quote>

The key here is not only the accessability and linkability of the list, but the ability to have changes and things allowed.. It might even be "Wiki-like" but I'm afraid that allowing full access would simply invite vandalism.. so I expect it would have to be moderated. Although it MIGHT be a real load initially, I believe that over time the maintenance would be quite minimal.. maybe I'm mistaken