SC4 Tools: New Toys..

DocRorlach · January 2, 2011

Nope, that's what we're here for: customer service. Seriously, beng semi-retired has its advantages.. And while we're at it: any more suggestions? Now's the time for it.

Rady · January 3, 2011

Well, yes:

Personally I tend to group my downloads (like, res, ploppable res, com, ploppable com, landmarks, ..) and install one group after the other. This is because when adding the whole stuff to the DIC ("add folder") and going to "manage & install downloads", sometimes only from the filename (especially for exe-files) you don't know whether a specific download is a commercial, residential, landmark, ploppabe, ...

So I group them into folders, and then import one folder after the other. Now when selecting "Add Folder", you are always directed to the SC4Stuff folder. However, I do have my downloads in a different location (outside of the SC4Stuff folder).

So everytime I'm importing a folder I have to change to my personal download folder. To make things easier, it would be great if you could specify a certain "download" folder where fresh downloads are stored prior to installing (because I think that even if you tend to have those new downloads in the SC4stuff folder, they would be in a subdirectory of that folder, not the . Possibly you could add this location to the "settings" part of the DIC.

Second (and of minor importance), after leaving the "manage & install" section to get back to the DIC's starting screen for importing a new folder, the DIC always scans the Plugins directory as a whole. Given the way I tend to work, this makes up for some time. Possibly the rescanning could be restricted to the folders changed, or could be done once before packing?

Third, let me ask a question: How does the "updated download" function works in detail? I observed that sometimes a download already installed shows up in the "Updates" section of the DIC's "manage & install" screen. Now how does the DIC know that there's an update on the web? Or does "update" only mean that this download has already been installed, and now is in the queue to be installed again. In that case (most likely this happens because I don't remember having this download already, so I add it) - how do I get rid of the download in the update queue (but NOT the original download!).

To be more specific: I want

1. the original download file to be kept in the SC4stuff\downloads folder

2. the original download to be kept in the plugins folder

3. the entry in the "update" queue to be deleted.

If I simply hit the "delete download" button, 1. and 3. will occur.

SO, quite some stuff this time!

P.S.: Qoutes are working again. Just discovered a "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" - Quote ....

DocRorlach · January 3, 2011

Ok. So I never thought anyone would organize the downloads prior to installation - the plugins, off course, but the downloads? Yet it can be done, via the introduction of categories which in turn would become subfolders below SC4 Stuff\Downloads. That folder structure must remain, otherwise things get too messy. What it will mean, though, is a fair bit of re-design: for one, the Download Manager's screen will need to grow if possible (I must assume that by now everyone has at least 1024x768 as a resolution?!), but most importantly the database needs to change.

Downloads will never be kept in the user's plugins folder - that is simply bad gaming practice. Only plugins (sc4 desc, sc4 model, dat, sc4 lot files go to the user plugins, DLLs, LUA, DAMN, etc., and other scripts go to the Maxis plugins folder).

This in turn would require that we have some kind of mechanism to update the existing database entries, some of which can be recognized outomatically, but most would need the end user to do it. Plus a category maintenance panel (they would need to be defined by the user, except for a few defaults such as landmarks, utilities, education, etc.). All doable, although it will affect the sorting and thus will need to be done before the sort is created.

Updated download: this is determined quite simply by the download date and only applies to already installed downloads. You should not see it too often since usually only prop packs & essentials tend to get updated. Lots, too, but not as frequently. Which means you should definitely install it again since the creator meant for the original to be updated. That action will remove it from the update queue but will not replace the original entry.

The scanning of plugins will only happen if: a) you installed some new stuff, or b) cleaned up the plugins folder, or c) combined or split folders. Hence, any action that changes the contents of the active (My) Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins folder. The one exception to this rule is at start-up, and then only if the game is unpacked. This is an essential procedure which provides ready data to other functions and features and will not be changed.

To sum up: what you propose can be done, but will be ready only in about a months or so. Meanwhile it would be helpful if others could "second the motions"..

T Wrecks · January 3, 2011

Originally posted by: DocRorlach

Ok. So I never thought anyone would organize the downloads prior to installation - the plugins, off course, but the downloads? quote>

Heck yes, I do!

You know, when I see new interesting stuff, I download it. However, I have particular plans for my region. Currently I'm going from small farming communities through towns with wooden houses (US/Canada style), followed by W2W tenements (NY style) and old industry stuff, to US-themed cities, and I plan to let the region evolve slowly through the Houston and Euro tilesets in the long run so I'll have old towns and modern cities.

This means that some things are great to have, but don't have priority right now. So I download them (lest I forget them!), group them into sub-folders, and those building categories that I need most urgently are the ones that I run through my modding tools and integrate into my plugins folder first.

Other download sub-folders remain there for a while until I need them. Then, when I need modernist skyscrapers, for example, I know exactly where to look and what I have.

I hope this little explanation helps you understand why some crazy people even sort their downloads.

While I'm at it, I might add that I keep the downloads on an external HDD that I connect when I need it so they don't get lost in a potential system crash.

DocRorlach · January 3, 2011

Ok, ok, verstanden! I will add categories to downloads, which does play into my (mild) obsession with statistics. Kriechtier Koenig - anything specific you might want to add to Rady's plans for my future evenings? BTW: the DIC does allow for plugins backups to external drives, but to keep the main download repository external is subject to that drive always being connected (as long as the DIC runs) so I forego that for now.

A Nonny Moose · January 3, 2011

Well, I am another who cateorizes downloads with sub-folders, and not all of them have anything to do with SC4. I am afraid that a tool like DIC is not for me in any case, since I like my current structures and am unlikely to change at my advanced age. I will just go stand on my head again, just like Father William.

Rady · January 3, 2011

Doc, maybe I just didn't explain proper my way of installing stuff:

Of course the downloads are finally transferred to the SC4stuff\download folder, without any file structure underneath, since this is only the "grave" of already installed stuff.

But I do structure my plugins folder, like residential, commercial, landmarks, ploppable residential, and so forth. Now when having imported a download into the DIC, and ready to install it, you iften don't havre a clue about the content of that specific download. Like, e.g., "Pearson Tower": Now what's that: a landmark? a commercial highrise? a residential building? Very often the content of the file doesn't provide any information on that, especially for an exe file. --> in that case I need to go back to SC4dev or simtropolis, search that download, and read through it's description to find out the details.

So that's the reason why I group my downloads into folders right after downloading, and prior to importing it into the DIC.

So, for me, it would be suficcient if I could define a specific download folder where DIC would point me to when selecting "add file" or "add folder".

GoNzOTW · January 3, 2011

Sounds great, unfortunately I get nothing but errors with both programs. "The Path is not of legal form."

T Wrecks · January 4, 2011

Originally posted by: DocRorlach

anything specific you might want to add to Rady's plans for my future evenings? quote>

Actually I only wanted to explain why it can make sense to organise downloads. Since I'm a horrible control freak and the worst file and folder structure Nazi you can think of (and a hater of installers to boot! ), I probably won't use any download helper and organiser tools anyway. Moving and renaming folders and files is a task that I prefer to do by hand, having full control over every step I take.

That's why it's probably not the best idea to adapt a software to my personal preferences. You'd be better off listening to folks who welcome a helpful tool like yours and don't mind to leave tasks that they find to be tedious and complicated to your software, which looks like a pretty amazing piece of work btw.

A Nonny Moose · January 4, 2011

I am in agreement with our friend, T Wrecks. People who don't want to be bothered with this level of management need something to keep them from being destroyed by the magnitude of their plugins. I, being the old computer rat that I am, do not want nor need someone else's idea of how to organize my system.

Having now seen the guts of the necessary support for the DIC, if find that I am not amused by having to have both DATpacker and Cleanitol messing with my structures, especially since neither of them run on my machine, even with Python26 installed.

Boys and girls, if you are going to write a portable program, write in Java or C++ please, and be careful of MS toys that make your work not portable. The Traffic Simulator Controller runs just fine under Java on my machine, by the way. If you must do file system things, use the canned controls and avoid using direct API calls if you can.

DocRorlach · January 4, 2011

Originally posted by: GoNzOTW

Sounds great, unfortunately I get nothing but errors with both programs. "The Path is not of legal form."

quote>

GoNzOT: can you be a bit more specific as to where that error occurs? With which application? And please include your OS (Win7?XP?Vista?64?32bit?), as well as what type of SimCity 4 installation you have (Standard, Deluxe, Rush Hour?)

A screenshot, if any, would help.

Rady, T Wrecks (apt name, methinks): Still, seeing what you do, Rady, categories would make sense. That way you identify your downloads as they come off the net, by stuffing them into the specific subfolder. The DIC then takes its cue from the subfolders name and lists, sorts, and presents DLs accordingly. This would save you the time-consuming extra step of importing. Besides, .NET has been somewhat stupid when it comes to the interface you see when importing: I cannot really point you to a specific folder, only start off at a predefined "system folder" (such as Desktop, My Documents, etc.).

A lot of this would not be necessary if I could convince the powers that are here at ST (I've long given up on SC4D) to permit a link-up between the STEX and DIC where a user could select what he/she wants to download, then use the DIC to fetch it in batch mode. That could provide the extra classification the STEX already has, and even allow scanning for updates of existing downloads. But alas, my please have fallen on deaf ears thus far.

What I will do in the next few weeks is to create a prototype of this method. I'll send you a download link when it is ready for testing, Rady, and then you can judge yourself - prior to public release - if that matches your methodology.

GoNzOTW · January 4, 2011

Both the DIC and the Organizer give me the error. Win7 64-bit. Deluxe Steam version.

If I remember right the organizer gave me a screen to fill out paths the first time it started, but then gave the error when I tried to do anything.

"The Path is not of legal form." As soon as I start them up.

I have since uninstalled both, so if you need more specific information on the error let me know and I'll put them back on.

EDIT- I do have the disk version as well, so I might be willing to install that if you think the error might be specific to the steam version.

DocRorlach · January 4, 2011

Well, I would need to know which path it did not accept. I presume it to be the location of the Maxis Apps folder, during the initial setup. You should not be able (with the DIC for sure) to enter the path manually, hence I am puzzled by the problem. There are buttons next to all path fileds that require you to browse and identify the correct or desired path for the respective fields.

If you do not mind, please reinstall the DIC (don't bother with the Organizer, it will be phased out this spring, when the DIC takes over all Organizer functionality). Then, when the message come up, press ALT-PRTSCR to capture the screen. You can then paste it into an email and send it to me (my email address is in my profile), or into a document you can attach to your reply post. That would really help.

GoNzOTW · January 5, 2011

Odd, now it seems to be working better (gave me a message about needing to set up my paths manually) and now it's kicking out a different error message. lol

GoNzOTW · January 5, 2011

See the end of this message for details on invoking

just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************

System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.

at DL_Catalogue.frmOptions.frmOptions_Load(Object sender, EventArgs e)

at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnLoad(EventArgs e)

at System.Windows.Forms.Form.OnCreateControl()

at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl(Boolean fIgnoreVisible)

at System.Windows.Forms.Control.CreateControl()

at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmShowWindow(Message& m)

at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)

at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)

at System.Windows.Forms.ContainerControl.WndProc(Message& m)

at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WmShowWindow(Message& m)

at System.Windows.Forms.Form.WndProc(Message& m)

at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)

at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)

at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

************** Loaded Assemblies **************

mscorlib

Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0

Win32 Version: 2.0.50727.4952 (win7RTMGDR.050727-4900)

CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework/v2.0.50727/mscorlib.dll

----------------------------------------

DL Catalogue

Assembly Version: 2.0.5.0

Win32 Version: 2.0.5.0

CodeBase: file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/eu-Contractor/DL%20Catalogue.exe

----------------------------------------

Microsoft.VisualBasic

Assembly Version: 8.0.0.0

Win32 Version: 8.0.50727.4927 (NetFXspW7.050727-4900)

CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/8.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll

----------------------------------------

System

Assembly Version: 2.0.0.0