Outsourcing jobs...

[Hahayoudied 3]

Many companies outsourced their factories, along with the jobs to poorer nations, such as India and China. Poorer countries often have cheap workers, less laws controlling pollutions. As a result, the companies would earn more profits, and able to sell cheaper products, and it might make outsourcing worth it.

However, outsourcing often results in loss of jobs for the workers in the more developed nations (such as the U.S.), more fuel and money used in transportation of the products due to longer transportation distance and time, decreases demand for cheap products due to jobless people in the more developed nations, and lower factories' productivty due to poorly, not educated well workers. Also, with the rising fuel cost, and ecomeny falling, it would make transporting products costing even more, and the consumers buying less, outsourcing might not be worth it.

Advantage for outsourcing factories and jobs to poorer and less developed countries:

1. less pollution control laws which makes it cheaper to produce products

2. cheaper workers

3. poor people able to earn money easily to have a better life

4. able to earn more profits

5. able to sell products for a lower price

Advantage for keeping jobs and factories in the richer and more developed countries:

1. better products' quality control

2. shorter shipping time and distance, results in reducing fuel usage and money spending in transporting products

3. better trained and educated workers, which results in factories producing more products

4. hires and pays workers at a higher wage, which allows them to buy products, which in return, slightly increasing demand for products, which increases profits, and helping the falling ecomenies in some richer countries.

5. less pollutions

Is outsourcing is worth it or not?

(correct me, not flame me please if I am wrong)

[your_adress_here 11]

If they still do it, it must still be worth it. For the companies that is.

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: Hahayoudied Many companies outsourced their factories, along with the jobs to poorer nations, such as India and China. Poorer countries often have cheap workers, less laws controlling pollutions. As a result, the companies would earn more profits, and able to sell cheaper products, and it might make outsourcing worth it. quote>

They do earn more and it has 99 times out of 100 been worth it for them.

However, outsourcing often results in loss of jobs for the workers in the more developed nations (such as the U.S.)quote>

True, but those are jobs lost in branches that are no longer competitive. This is the market at work.

more fuel and money used in transportation of the products due to longer transportation distance and time,quote>

By shipping in large quantities these two have not been a very big hurdle for the companies.

decreases demand for cheap products due to jobless people in the more developed nations,quote>

That demand hasn't decreased so far.

and lower factories' productivty due to poorly, not educated well workers.quote>

The reason many of these jobs could be shipped away is that the education level wasn't very important in the first place. Whatever minor dip in productivity there might be because of that gets corrected ten times over by the benefits of laxer labour regulations.

[fukuda 351]

And unlimited capitalism stabs the backs of those who enforced it yay

[sedimenjerry 1]

The pros for outsourcing are only pros for the company and the workers in the country of employment.

If the US didnt have such strict laws and taxes on the companies then maybe we wouldn't have to outsource everything.

I think I heard where an Indian company is actually going to outsource its support system to Atlanta.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: fukuda And unlimited capitalism stabs the backs of those who enforced it yayquote>

It at least used to be that some companies moved their factories first to e.g. Latin America for a few years, for then moving them to countries like Kampuchea and Thailand when employment was high enough for the market to function (reduced poverty, food on the table, the kids in school and even some spare for a weekend of—that's when workers start to get pesky).

However, outsourcing in itself isn't a bad thing; that's the market forces working, the visible effects of Adam's invisible hand. All of us, but especially the yanks amongst us, should take a good look at the map and note all the outsourcing that has happened for hundred of years inside our own borders. Oh, and there's plenty of good recent examples; the Japanese made our TV sets because American and European sets weren't competitive enough; the same thing is happening with computer electronics and Taiwan/Beijing China. Again, it's the market forces, and it's a bit late to complain about the effect of our Western world order just because people with funny alphabets are doing the same thing we've been doing for hundreds of years.

--edited to alter insulting terminology--

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Hahayoudied

Is outsourcing is worth it or not?

quote>

As with many issues, it depends on who you are and what your point of view is.

A few years ago, I took a bus tour through Belize City.  Belize was called British Honduras when I was in geography class but they have since gained independence.  

According to the tour guide, people there want to stop being a third world country so they are looking for opportunities to develop and prosper. They figure the next logical step is to develop their manufacturing sector.  They figure that a motivated, English speaking workforce would be appealing to companies.  They are pleased with the companies that have moved there and they are hoping to attract others.

Being an SC4 player, I could see the logic that manufacturing is the next step for them.   The guy across the aisle in the bus was sneering "So this is where our manufacturing jobs are going".

The simple, hard truth is that there are many places on this planet where there are poor people who want to work and earn a better life.  Places like Belize have many eager workers, willing to work for a relatively low wage.  As long as that is true, the companies will go there.   That is an economic reality.

What does that mean for the manufacturing sector in the USA?  It means that we're screwed.  It may not be politically popular to say "your jobs aren't coming back" but it's still a fact.   Yeah, we could play around with tariffs and tax incentives and whatever to slow down the process but, in the end, there will still be many more jobs overseas.

After the overseas workforce is saturated, the jobs could return here but I don't see that happening any time soon.  Certainly not in my lifetime.

The American standard of living is declining.  and it will continue to decline until things have "evened out" across the planet.  Like it or lump it, that is how a global economy works.

[coolotter88 2]

I heard outsourcing creates more jobs in the end. something to do with more prosperous companies and something like that. whatever it is, it's in the parts of the world is flat that I read.

[GMT 389]

I don't think it'll be worth it for a long time from now.

many german firms have already started to get their productions back here because they had nothing but trouble, be it quality or distributional problems like not delivered on time and stuff.

It's a rather young trend to re-establish "domestic production" (as I would call it), but I guess many many will follow suit, not just in germany but also in other countries.

And if I start to include gas prizes (tho a barrel crude oil has fallen to a recent $119,23), there's yet another reason to start producing "at home" again.

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: sedimenjerry The pros for outsourcing are only pros for the company and the workers in the country of employment.quote>

....and for anyone who likes and uses cheap products.

If the US didnt have such strict laws and taxes on the companies then maybe we wouldn't have to outsource everything.quote>

Yes, those cursed laws preventing child labour and the exploitation of workers.

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

Outsourcing is worth it. When a company outsources jobs to a different country, sure, a few crummy manufacturing jobs will disappear, but this whole "it depends on your point of view" thing is nonsense. So, Company X is making widgets and discovers that by moving their manufacturing overseas to China will cut costs tremendously, and sending tech support hotline jobs to India will also help the bottom line, it is true, Company X is far ahead. Some workers in the USA will complain, "Wah, our crappy factory job disappeared, so did our crappy phone service job!" I worked a phone service job, it sucked. If the Indians want to do it, more power to them (and many of these jobs, even if they look like "sweatshop" jobs to us, you must look at it in context: it's either tough factory work or impossibly difficult, backbreaking subsistence farming or begging).

So, now Company X is saving heaps and heaps of money, the costs of their products are down which allows them to lower prices. Does this mean that Company X is going to sit on its butt and grow fat and happy? No, if it's a smart company (and we're saying Company X is in fact, smart, or at least not stupid), then it's going to expand its operations and hire more white-collar jobs at home to supply the necessary labor demanded by the company's expansion. Maybe they need an extra VP, perhaps hire more accountants, and some international law experts, some translators to deal with their new workers, or any number of jobs that are much better than the ones "lost."

Now, let's see who wins out with outsourcing: Company X won with lower costs and rising profits. Indians and Chinese won with better jobs than before. Consumers won with lower prices and increased supply. Domestic workers won as a whole with better quality jobs available.

Do a few people lose out when their jobs are shipped overseas? Yes, they do. But this being America (or almost any democratic, capitalist society), there are few barriers between the newly unemployed workers and new jobs. The responsibility is on them to find new work, or increase their skills so as not to run the risk of being outsourced out of a job.

Thus, there is evidence that outsourcing is much better for the world economy than it is bad. Is the system perfect? No. Do people make mistakes? Yes. We are all human, after all, and nothing is perfect. But even given any mistakes that have been made, there are still many benefits that far outweigh the costs involved with outsourcing.

[sedimenjerry 1]

Originally posted by: JanYpe

Yes, those cursed laws preventing child labour and the exploitation of workers. quote>

 

You forgot the environmental laws.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: NMUSpidey

Now, let's see who wins out with outsourcing: Company X won with lower costs and rising profits. Indians and Chinese won with better jobs than before. Consumers won with lower prices and increased supply. Domestic workers won as a whole with better quality jobs available. quote>

"with better quality jobs available".  Okay, let's say for sake of argument that is how it works.

(I believe that is accurate, btw.)

That does not mean that the people who lost their jobs are eligible for these better quality jobs.  To put it another way:  not all blue collar workers can be re-trained into being white collar workers.

Sure, many of them would love the chance.   but a lot of them won't get that chance.  and some of them won't be able to take advantage of it if they do get the chance.

Do a few people lose out when their jobs are shipped overseas? Yes, they do. But this being America (or almost any democratic, capitalist society), there are few barriers between the newly unemployed workers and new jobs. The responsibility is on them to find new work, or increase their skills so as not to run the risk of being outsourced out of a job.  quote>

Easy to say.  Try being a 48 old year old man with 3 kids whose job, and entire industry, is suddenly gone.  Assuming he had the aptitude to be a VP, accountant or international law expert, how is he supposed to keep his family fed while he has no job and needs to go to school?

Starting a second career in your 20s or 30s or early 40s can be relatively easy.  Starting one in your late 40s or 50s can be almost possible.  Most of the time, you won't even get a chance.

I agree with you that, in the long run, it will work out.   But, in the short run, a lot of decent people are going to get lost in the transition.  From their point of view, outsourcing is a bad thing.

If you think that's nonsense, go talk with some of them.

[krbe 193]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek [...]was sneering "So this is where our manufacturing jobs are going".

[...] It means that we're screwed.[...]quote>

I'm not going to pretend that I know much about American production migration, but if I recall correctly, there was a discussion about large factories closing in the Midwest and moving south. They simply go where they can make the most money. I doubt it matters much for laid-off workers wether it's people in Belize or the the South who gets their jobs; they are screwed anyway. Sadly, I also thinks that your sneering guy doesn't give these facts much though.

Originally posted by: SkiGeekBut, in the short run, a lot of decent people are going to get lost in the transition.  From their point of view, outsourcing is a bad thing.

If you think that's nonsense, go talk with some of them.quote>

An unfortunate fact of life. But that's always going to happen: Some will lose out in competition, either techonology, to people who are doing their job better than them at home, or people who are doing their job better than them abroad. Why should we complain more about the latter case than the two former? There is almost nothing we can do with it in any case (and the things we can do are utterly idiotic and counterproductive, in addition to violating most basic economic values the Western world have.)

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: krbe

An unfortunate fact of life. But that's always going to happen quote>

Agreed.

Some will lose out in competition, either techonology, to people who are doing their job better than them at home, or people who are doing their job better than them abroad. Why should we complain more about the latter case than the two former? quote>

Well, there are a few reasons why people want to complain . . .

-  The people abroad are not doing the job "better".  They are doing it cheaper. and, in many cases, in worse conditions.    As JanYpe pointed out, not every place has laws preventing child labor and the exploitation of workers.  It can feel like the company is screwing over two workforces at once:  the one without jobs and the one with jobs in lousy conditions.

-  It doesn't sit well with people when someone does everything "right" and still gets screwed.  There are plenty of people who followed (what seemed like) a reasonable approach to working, only to find themselves at a brick wall with nowhere to go.

Yeah, I know; that's how it goes sometimes.   We wish life could be fair but often, it just isn't.

Still, it sucks for the people involved.

There is almost nothing we can do with it in any case (and the things we can do are utterly idiotic and counterproductive, in addition to violating most basic economic values the Western world have.)quote>

Yeah but politicians don't like saying "you're screwed and there is nothing we can do about it" so they try to come up with something.

[Mebert 5]

Outsourcing will continue to happen until western nations are so poor that they are outsourced to, and stop outsourcing. In fact, that's already starting with steel.

[Micah 16]

A few years ago, I took a bus tour through Belize City. Belize was called British Honduras when I was in geography class but they have since gained independence.

According to the tour guide, people there want to stop being a third world country so they are looking for opportunities to develop and prosper. They figure the next logical step is to develop their manufacturing sector. They figure that a motivated, English speaking workforce would be appealing to companies. They are pleased with the companies that have moved there and they are hoping to attract others.quote>

And that is actually a problem in itself. Most of my coworkers are Latino, most are illegal, and most come from Honduras.

The government of Honduras equiped the people with the know-how in manufacturing and gave them plenty of English-language skills that the people of Honduras began to realize they could make far greater amounts of money if they left for the USA. And so they did. With the expertise they learned in Honduras, they are very well suited for manufacturing and other related businesses here, specifically in Texas. To the Hondurans, they're making tons of money here in the US and are sending a good percentage back to family in Honduras.

Annnnyway, outsourcing jobs is simply a cycle. The jobs we loose return in other ways. For example, many Asian car companies are building factories here in America. Just how American companies are moving to Dubai, there are far greater numbers of Saudi Arabian and Dubai companies are setting up "shop" here. In fact, my dad works for a Saudi Arabian banking company here in Houston.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Glad im a field technician.

Try to outsource onsite repairmen, it wont happen.

That guy in India may know how to fix a copier, but cant actualy fix a copier in Dallas.

[hym 358]

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes Glad im a field technician.

Try to outsource onsite repairmen, it wont happen.

That guy in India may know how to fix a copier, but cant actualy fix a copier in Dallas.quote>

No, but a robot can theoretically be designed to handle that job, and it's not as impossible as it seems.  Aside from that, done properly, a lot of stuff can be designed to it's cheaper to replace defective units than it is to repair them.

[Easy Bakes 253]

Originally posted by: hym

Originally posted by: Easy Bakes Glad im a field technician.

Try to outsource onsite repairmen, it wont happen.

That guy in India may know how to fix a copier, but cant actualy fix a copier in Dallas.quote>

No, but a robot can theoretically be designed to handle that job, and it's not as impossible as it seems.  Aside from that, done properly, a lot of stuff can be designed to it's cheaper to replace defective units than it is to repair them.quote>

 

But there are stil the end users, who either cant be bothered or cant figure  out how to change that Unit.

There are still a LOT of non techinal savy people in this world.

Edit: Soory bout that, Had the enter key stick on the keyboard.

Cleaning up the extras

[Hahayoudied 3]

Oh, one more thing,since out sourcing often causes products being shipped over long distances, that could cost more money and more fuel usage in transporting the products. With the oil price going up, it could cost more money to out source than keeping factories at home if the oil price continues to rise...

[hym 358]

I'm aware that end users may lack the desire or aptitude to change the defective unit, and because of that, repairmen exist.  However, it is not impossible to design a robot to fix the copier machine and then give it the logic necessary to complete its job without human help.  Some US manufacturing plants have seen the rise of :automated repairmen"--machines designed to fix other machines.  Computer software has been proven capable of efficiently handling customer service systems, teaching school children, monitoring major utilities, controlling entire shipping and logistics corporations, and the list goes on nearly indefinitely.

I'll provide some examples:

1. I've spoken with a man that works at a nuclear power facility.  According to him, when the plant is operating, it is all handled by computers.  When the plant is shut down for maintenance, it is all handled by computers, and when the plant is restarted, it is all handled by computers.

2. DARPA's Grand Challenge proved that computer-controlled vehicles were capable of directing themselves at high speeds over rough terrain that they might not have ever encountered before.

3. US seaports use thousands of employees to keep them functioning.  Hong Kong has designed port systems that are entirely computer controlled and no humans at all are needed to handle and process the freight.

4.  Genetic algorithm software has been designed that is capable of writing highly complex software programs, with only being told what kind of software it's supposed to write.

The significant common thing about all of those examples is that computers have been designed to handle jobs that previously could only be done by humans.  So too, field repair work can be automated, even if the end user doesn't understand the equipment that needs fixing.  Very, very few jobs are safe from outsourcing or automation.

[Hahayoudied 3]

So, what are people are going to do after most of their jobs have been automated or out sourced?

Oh yeah, that reminds of me of this one science fiction book about the future where ALL of the jobs are handled by robots and computers, except for a few jobs, and that most of the humans are left unemployed, for the rest of their life...

Too bad I didn't get to read the ending of the book.

[Voar Tok 4]

This is a favorite subject of mine, so I'm going to be writing for a little while.

Originally posted by: Hahayoudied

Advantage for outsourcing factories and jobs to poorer and less developed countries:

1. less pollution control laws which makes it cheaper to produce products

2. cheaper workers

3. poor people able to earn money easily to have a better life

4. able to earn more profits

5. able to sell products for a lower pricequote>

1. Yes, that is usually true.

2. That's a two-fold reason.  Part of it is because there are usually no minimum wage laws in the countries that people outsource to.  Part of it is because countries prone to receiving outsourced jobs usually have a currency that is worth far less than the currency of the country that the jobs are coming from.

3. True, and actually a proponent used by people who promote sweatshop labor - "well, at least they're earning more money this way and can afford a higher living standard."

4. The ability to earn more profits isn't always there.  Sometimes companies move jobs to another country just so that they can keep their overall manufacturing costs the same even though some particular supply has become more expensive.

5. The products usually aren't sold for a lower price.  A product is sold for whatever the general market is willing to pay.  Unless it's a highly competitive field, most of the time, the company will pocket all of the savings.  For example, t-shirts are mostly made overseas.  The difference in selling price between a t-shirt made in the US and a t-shirt made overseas is negligible at best the majority of the time.  What has happened is that the industry is aware that there's a particular price t-shirts will sell for, and everyone, no matter how much it costs them to produce them, will sell them for about the same price.

Advantage for keeping jobs and factories in the richer and more developed countries:

1. better products' quality control

2. shorter shipping time and distance, results in reducing fuel usage and money spending in transporting products

3. better trained and educated workers, which results in factories producing more products

4. hires and pays workers at a higher wage, which allows them to buy products, which in return, slightly increasing demand for products, which increases profits, and helping the falling ecomenies in some richer countries.

5. less pollutionsquote>

1. This is not necessarily true.  The Japanese make some damn good products.  It's still cheaper for an American company to manufacture a lot of stuff (like electronics) in Japan than it is in the US, and the quality is just as good.  Granted, that's not always the case.  I work in manufacturing, and there are some countries that companies as a whole (at least in this industry) would rather completely avoid doing business with for various reasons due to quality control.

2. This is negligible at best.  The cost to ship something from Mexico to Kansas is insignificant compared to the cost to ship something from Arizona to Kansas, and the manufacturing costs are so much lower south of the border.

3. Better trained and educated workers does not equal the production of more products.  It never has and never will.  Better trained and educated workers is a quality control issue and not a manufacturing speed issue.  Also, it is just as easy to train someone from a developed country and a third world country to do the vast majority of manufacturing jobs.  About 50% of the workforce where I'm at originally came from third-world and developing countries and are just as good at what they do as the people who were born and raised in this country.  Some of these people don't even speak English or Spanish and still manage to get the job done right each and every time.  Products produced is a function of plant capacity, supply line control, industry demand, worker ethos, and so many other things that I don't even want to mention them all.

4. Hiring and paying at a higher wage allows people to support a higher standard of living, but that's only for the people who live there.  If I had an employee that worked for $50 a day here in the US and another one in Mexico that worked for $10 a day, the guy in Mexico would still be better off than the guy in the US.

5. Probably so.

Originally posted by: fukuda And unlimited capitalism stabs the backs of those who enforced it yayquote>

You make it sound like we're all regretting and bemoaning this.   Sure, it's never fun to tell someone that someone they've never even met will be taking their job, but that's a reality of life and the global economy.  It doesn't matter what kind of government or economic system you run, you can't avoid it unless you close off your borders.  And history has shown that closing your borders off entirely is bad for your country as a whole.

Meg: For what you said once about never having studied the global economy, you have a surprisingly good understanding of it.

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Being an SC4 player, I could see the logic that manufacturing is the next step for them.   The guy across the aisle in the bus was sneering "So this is where our manufacturing jobs are going".quote>

While I don't know where Belize sits in their progression of economic development, all countries, if they want to become a developed nation, will have to go through an industrial revolution.  Manufacturing is at the heart of this, because the technological revolution won't come until you've proven that you're capable of sustaining an industrially-based economy.  (Then there's the other aspect that industrial revolutions are bad for the environment due to their need for cheap (and subsequently dirty) energy, but that's another discussion).

What does that mean for the manufacturing sector in the USA?  It means that we're screwed.  It may not be politically popular to say "your jobs aren't coming back" but it's still a fact.   Yeah, we could play around with tariffs and tax incentives and whatever to slow down the process but, in the end, there will still be many more jobs overseas.quote>

It depends on what aspect you're in.  The particular sector of manufacturing that I'm in is still alive and booming, and will be for the forseeable future also.  The reason for this is because in the fabrication world, there's a significant demand for ISO-certified fabricating shops.  The majority of ISO-certified fab shops are in the US, Europe, and modernized Asian countries like Japan and South Korea.  With an ISO-certified shop, you know that they're going to deliver exactly what they say they will.  In an industry where product cost is hundreds of thousands and product failure costs millions and usually people's lives, overseas fabrication shops are not nearly as popular.

After the overseas workforce is saturated, the jobs could return here but I don't see that happening any time soon.  Certainly not in my lifetime.quote>

The American manufacturing industry will partially recover over time, but it won't be in your lifetime, and probably not in mine either, although is most likely will start making some moves in that direction before my generation is gone.

That does not mean that the people who lost their jobs are eligible for these better quality jobs.  To put it another way:  not all blue collar workers can be re-trained into being white collar workers.quote>

Many of them also have no more education that high school and some technical classes.

Sure, many of them would love the chance.   but a lot of them won't get that chance.  and some of them won't be able to take advantage of it if they do get the chance.quote>

Not necessarily.  A sizable chunk of the manufacturing industry's workforce either didn't want to go to college, or would prefer not to work in the white-collar jobs.

Originally posted by: krbe

I'm not going to pretend that I know much about American production migration, but if I recall correctly, there was a discussion about large factories closing in the Midwest and moving south. They simply go where they can make the most money. I doubt it matters much for laid-off workers wether it's people in Belize or the the South who gets their jobs; they are screwed anyway. Sadly, I also thinks that your sneering guy doesn't give these facts much though. quote>

Are you referring to the southern US states or completely south of the border?  The factories that pick up and leave one portion of the US in favor of another portion is usually because the states all have different taxes laws and some states are more favorable to businesses than others.  It's not politically correct to say so, but the reality of the matter is that the southern states in the US are, from a business standpoint, a much better place to work out of than the northern ones.

Originally posted by: Micah

The government of Honduras equiped the people with the know-how in manufacturing and gave them plenty of English-language skills that the people of Honduras began to realize they could make far greater amounts of money if they left for the USA. And so they did. With the expertise they learned in Honduras, they are very well suited for manufacturing and other related businesses here, specifically in Texas. To the Hondurans, they're making tons of money here in the US and are sending a good percentage back to family in Honduras.quote>

Which is why even keeping manufacturing jobs on the home turf, so to speak, won't really change the situation.  It'll keep more Americans employed, which is a good thing, but it will keep them employed at a lower rate.  About half of my co-workers either aren't American by birth or even an American citizen at all (and if this sounds like it's bothering me, it isn't).  Most of those people will tell you that they are only here to help support their family back in whatever country they are originally from.  As such, many of them are willing to work at a pay rate significantly lower than the average for their industry, and everyone else in the surrounding area will have to work at that rate or face the very likely chance of standing in the unemployment line.

Originally posted by: hym

The significant common thing about all of those examples is that computers have been designed to handle jobs that previously could only be done by humans.  So too, field repair work can be automated, even if the end user doesn't understand the equipment that needs fixing.  Very, very few jobs are safe from outsourcing or automation.quote>

This is a gross oversimplification of things.  In the manufacturing industry, since this is primarily the industry that we're talking about, anything that involves the process of manufacturing custom parts almost certainly will have to be preformed by a human unless the part is based off a pre-defined template.  The level of inspection needed will also dictate if a machine can do it or not.  We are a long way from developing machines that can do all of the custom work and inspection that the custom manufacturing industry needs.  Inspection of stock materials is different, but that's only workable because you have a standard to check for error against, and any deviation can be considered an error.  It doesn't work that way for a decent chunk of the industry though.

[saltandsauce 0]

of course what nobody realises is, that a crap job is better than no job. and the cities in the UK that were industrial are still suffering BADLY from it. we now have the unemployable underclass that has been allowed to rot for the last 50 years.

by the way, the only "market force" that exists is the fact that people are all cowards

[confused04 14]

Just wanted to point out two short things...

A) For those people referring to blue collar jobs as "Crummy manufacturing", I'd advise you change your words. It comes with an air of arrogance and is an ugly name. Its a job and its what some people like to do. What might be crummy to you is dinner on the table. Most users on this site (being less than 18) haven't had to try and provide for themselves and pay bills. Don't refer to these jobs so negatively, I personally find it offensive even though I myself am not in the manufacturing industry.

B ) What most Americans fail to realize (it might have been said up there ^^^^^) that the US is actually the benefactor of insourcing and it has been for ages. The US has gained more jobs from overseas markets then its lost to those same markets, specifically in healthcare and technology. Most people see the shuttered windows of the Rust Belt but the US has actually benefited from having people outsource from foreign countries to here. The US and the UK have the highest net gain in jobs from insourcing in the developed world, specifically in the business services area. So yes, even though 100 jobs were closed with the gas pump manufacturing plant, 200 could have been moved in by corporations looking to establish in the lucrative American market.

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: saltandsauce

by the way, the only "market force" that exists is the fact that people are all cowardsquote>

I suggest you go back and restudy your economics.  That's not even a market force.

[fukuda 351]

Originally posted by: Voar Tok

Originally posted by: fukuda And unlimited capitalism stabs the backs of those who enforced it yayquote>

You make it sound like we're all regretting and bemoaning this.   Sure, it's never fun to tell someone that someone they've never even met will be taking their job, but that's a reality of life and the global economy.  It doesn't matter what kind of government or economic system you run, you can't avoid it unless you close off your borders.  And history has shown that closing your borders off entirely is bad for your country as a whole.quote>

You dont need to tell me this, lol, it was meant to be a sarcasm

Thats how people tend to see it over here, so I was making a bit of fun.

[saltandsauce 0]

Originally posted by: NMUSpidey Outsourcing is worth it. When a company outsources jobs to a different country, sure, a few crummy manufacturing jobs will disappear, but this whole "it depends on your point of view" thing is nonsense. So, Company X is making widgets and discovers that by moving their manufacturing overseas to China will cut costs tremendously, and sending tech support hotline jobs to India will also help the bottom line, it is true, Company X is far ahead. Some workers in the USA will complain, "Wah, our crappy factory job disappeared, so did our crappy phone service job!" I worked a phone service job, it sucked. If the Indians want to do it, more power to them (and many of these jobs, even if they look like "sweatshop" jobs to us, you must look at it in context: it's either tough factory work or impossibly difficult, backbreaking subsistence farming or begging).quote>

now as my geography textbooks so righteously claim, the shipyards and steelworks in Glasgow have just shut down  but work in the technology sector in "Silicon Glen" is rising quickly so they should get jobs there

of course that was written in the 70s, the technology industry has came and went (it was gone when i was born). of course these shipworkers were trained in welding and things like that. this was the computing business (computer components) which has NO resemblancies. these workers were left to rot in Springburn (train building works) and Govan (shipyards) but they were told that work was on it's way. These people definatley didn't have the money to re-train and some didn't have the natural ability to work in these jobs.

in answer to your statement, companies can afford to make slightly less money and consumers don't care if something costs £10 or £5 after it's bought. you cannot actually comprehend the fact that ANY job is better than NO job at all.

and a lot of UK call centres are moving back to the UK because indians couldn't understand some of the accents and dialects and customers were getting pissed off with having to talk to indians instead of BT

and Voar_Tok, i was mocking people's obsessions with "market forces" it sounds like the "laws as unbreakable as the physical laws of the universe - we must OBEY"

[Hahayoudied 3]

Hint: My first post was comparing out sourcing to poorer countries and keeping jobs in the richer countries, but if anyone criticze me, read it again carefully...

Oh yeah, remember that one incident where loads of products that was made in China and sold in the U.S. turns out to be poor quality and unsafe (such as lead paint in the products)? There was one picture of a supermarket's toy deparment where the shelves almost empty due to so many products recalls. This is why some today companies aren't out sourcing to many poorer countries, due to fears of poor quality control after the incident...

However, I am NOT saying that companies shouldn't out source to other developed countries.