The space/time travel debate

[TV-VCR 15]

Is space/time travel possible?

Looking at the surface of it, no, if it existed, we would have started noticing things - a "time travel police force" would not be able to keep it a secret from people in the past. In fact, the whole space/time continuum might be broken from it.

Looking at it deeper, it could actually exist, but we all have timelines. There are many possible things that could happen in a timeline that can effect everything i.e. I could choose to go eat pringles or get a drink. As I result I could end up dying from choking, and what if I was to be the next president or something? The timeline veers off into another path. If time travel really did exist, no one would ever know about it because going back in time would create a path, but in a separate dimension? So people there would know, but they'e in the time traveler's dimension? And traveling back to where the person came  would be impossible, because that time does not exist yet in that dimention? So if you wanted to do it actually successfully,  you would have to figure out how to travel back and forth the same dimension (which might be a tad hard since there are so many dimensions). But, if you did do it correctly, what happens? if you change anything major, anything past that event could just go poof.

PS: I say "space/time" travel because if you just traveled back in time, you're likely to end up in deep space, at the center of the earth, halfway in a tree, or something.... everything moves over time.

Just some theories. What do you think? Sorry if I sound like a complete idiot.

[fukuda 351]

Is space/time travel possible?quote>

? Space travel is possible, we send probes and rockets to space every year, as far as I'm concerned. And everytime you travel in space, you also travel in time

Looking at the surface of it, no, if it existed, we would have started noticing things - a "time travel police force" would not be able to keep it a secret from people in the past. In fact, the whole space/time continuum might be broken from it.quote>

No real time travelers appeared in all our known history, if time traveling is possible in the future, they could be able to travel anytime in history, why they didn't?

no one would ever know about it because going back in time would create a path, but in a separate dimension? So people there would know, but they'e in the time traveler's dimension? And traveling back to where the person came  would be impossible, because that time does not exist yet in that dimention? So if you wanted to do it actually successfully,  you would have to figure out how to travel back and forth the same dimension (which might be a tad hard since there are so many dimensions).quote>

This comes from the common misunderstanding of what a dimension is. You can't travel down a dimension, imagine being in a 1-dimensional space, quite annoying isn't it? To move, you need at least a 4-dimensional space, so it would be in a separate space. This is mainly the fault of sci-fi and cartoons

PS: I say "space/time" travel because if you just traveled back in time, you're likely to end up in deep space, at the center of the earth, halfway in a tree, or something.... everything moves over time.quote>

Don't worry, to travel in time you need to travel in space aswell, as they are not separable things, so your title is correct .

P.S.

And yes, I'm using relativist physics

[Easy Bakes 253]

If time travel was possible it would only be to the past, how could  you travel to somewhen that has not happened yet? you would have no refrencne points to get there, that empty lot today might have something there when you ge to it. 
Not that that would matter. My theory is that if you did travel in time you would only be able to observe you imediate surroundings anyway. what ever deivce you used to travel in would probabaly have some type of field surrounding it that would prevent you from leaveing that device.So there would be no changing of history.
My 2nd theory is that if in the future time travel is possible nothing would change anyway
since that fact they travel back in time is already part of history.

[TV-VCR 15]

Originally posted by: fukuda

Looking at the surface of it, no, if it existed, we would have started noticing things - a "time travel police force" would not be able to keep it a secret from people in the past. In fact, the whole space/time continuum might be broken from it.quote>

No real time travelers appeared in all our known history, if time traveling is possible in the future, they could be able to travel anytime in history, why they didn't? quote>

Check out what I said in the section below.

Originally posted by: fukuda

no one would ever know about it because going back in time would create a path, but in a separate dimension? So people there would know, but they'e in the time traveler's dimension? And traveling back to where the person came  would be impossible, because that time does not exist yet in that dimention? So if you wanted to do it actually successfully,  you would have to figure out how to travel back and forth the same dimension (which might be a tad hard since there are so many dimensions).quote>

This comes from the common misunderstanding of what a dimension is. You can't travel down a dimension, imagine being in a 1-dimensional space, quite annoying isn't it? To move, you need at least a 4-dimensional space, so it would be in a separate space. This is mainly the fault of sci-fi and cartoons quote>

I didn't mean 1 dimensional spaces in the first place. That's just silly. Is there a word for a 4-dimensional space, possibly?

[fukuda 351]

My theory is that if you did travel in time you would only be able to observe you imediate surroundings anyway. what ever deivce you used to travel in would probabaly have some type of field surrounding it that would prevent you from leaveing that device.So there would be no changing of history.quote>

The displacement of air due to the device would be already a change in history. To view the past as a film, it should be recorded or storedsomewhere, but where's the information? The only working time machine we have are telescopes, but that's due to the limited speed of light and the huge distances in the universe, and information is being lost all the time as photons get past earth. And we can revive (though distorted) scenes of our personal past using the information in our brain.

Past no longer exists and future isn't existing yet, matter already taken other positions and speeds, and we've never found any kind of real long-term matter "memory", We can, using some methods, know how things were in the past, but we can't project it on a screen, too many information is lost forever. Needless to say that we can "predict" future in a very short time, but we can't see something that hasn't occured yet.

Originally posted by: TV-VCR

Is there a word for a 4-dimensional space, possibly?quote>

Yes, space.

Dimension ≠ Space

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

I just came back from the future and I found out that no, it's not possible.

[Explodingsims 3]

Well, even if time travel was possible, it would serve no purpose.

If you constructed a time machine to stop an event from happening, and succeed, then you would have had no reason to build the machine in the first place, thus, you would never build it, and the event would happen...and so on and so forth...

This is why BTTF 3 was so head-explodingly flawed.

[Lyhoko Leaci 770]

Originally posted by: Explodingsims Well, even if time travel was possible, it would serve no purpose.

If you constructed a time machine to stop an event from happening, and succeed, then you would have had no reason to build the machine in the first place, thus, you would never build it, and the event would happen...and so on and so forth...

This is why BTTF 3 was so head-explodingly flawed.quote>

Or you could create a universe in which that event never happened, (assuming you succeeded in stopping it) separate from the one you left. (where the event did happen)

[coolotter88 2]

you can't travel through space, not unless if you enjoy cancer.

[TV-VCR 15]

Originally posted by: The_Dalai_Llama I just came back from the future and I found out that no, it's not possible.quote>

Originally posted by: coolotter88 you can't travel through space, not unless if you enjoy cancer.quote>

I really want this thread to be more of a serious discussion. Not insulting you in any way.

And coolotter, we're travelling through space constantly. If you walk from one end of a room to another, you traveled through space. But with outer space, you wouldn't get cancer, the vacuum would make anatomy like your eyes explode, and you would freeze to death and die.

[Explodingsims 3]

Originally posted by: Leech10

Originally posted by: Explodingsims Well, even if time travel was possible, it would serve no purpose.

If you constructed a time machine to stop an event from happening, and succeed, then you would have had no reason to build the machine in the first place, thus, you would never build it, and the event would happen...and so on and so forth...

This is why BTTF 3 was so head-explodingly flawed.quote>

Or you could create a universe in which that event never happened, (assuming you succeeded in stopping it) separate from the one you left. (where the event did happen)quote>

YES!!

1. You loose points for Bringing BTTF 2 References in here

2. You gain points Suggesting the creation of an alternate universe...Because that wouldn't be time travel, that would be Dimension  hopping! Only Ace Rimmer can do that!!

And yes, it would be dimension hopping, BECAUSE, for that event to happen, or not happen in this case, then the events leading up to its non-exicution would still be in place...But you just interfere and cause yourself to become stuck in this new dimension somehow...

And if I may get boring for a minute, then this would mean that for every choice ever made, there would be a new time line created, since by all know logic time doesn't start like that, the alternate dimension would have had a history similar to ours until that point...

This would also mean that there are a million billion other universe/dimensions out there...cool...

Now if you'll excuse me...I have to stop my head from exploding...

Of course, this all follows the "Back to the Future" Theory of time travel.

Time travel into the future would be impossible though. The future isn't scripted...Because if it was then we would have all given up on life the second we realized we live in a cold scripted society were we have no choice in our actions...And no, you people who say that God knows our future...We still have control over what we do, and what the consiquicnes are. I think it just means our final destination*. And since time only flows in one direction, all all the events in the past have happened, I don't think going backwards in time is possible either. Makes for good reading though...

Now lets look at "The Sound of Thunder Theory"

Basically the same as the BTTF Theory, but just on a smaller scale. This seems to say that killing or altering the slightest thing can change the course of history. Which once again lands us in the "New Timeline based on an event boat"  But in this case, more is changed that just what Marty does to Biff. One little butterfly causes the whole USA to become like Nazi Germany. (And Spelling to be hurled out a window) A much more extreme change then just altering one or two people's lives. Somehow I don't think that something as sutle as me drinking a glass of water or not determines the fate of several million people and years of history.

This goes back to the Parrallel universe thing though, Histroy up untill that point was the same but now, you've changed it, so now you go to the future where that event did happen, so in theory, the normal universe you where in still exists as well as this new one you're in...

So I guess Leech's theory is right...

Although I still stick by my time loops theory...

*I say this as a Christian who was gone through more than one lecture on the subject

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

Originally posted by: TV-VCR

Originally posted by: The_Dalai_Llama I just came back from the future and I found out that no, it's not possible.quote>

Originally posted by: coolotter88 you can't travel through space, not unless if you enjoy cancer.quote>

I really want this thread to be more of a serious discussion. Not insulting you in any way.  quote>

 

Well... if I have to be serious.

Seriously, I have little or no knowledge of this subject so I can't comment much on it, but I don't see time travel, as we refer to it, possible.  However, we are always traveling in time... but only at one speed.

[Wrightguy0 40]

Dimension hopping is impossible and once you've altered the timeline there is no way to ever get back into the correct stream that you started in. You will only ever come close to your own reality but you will never re-enter that paralell. It's gone for good, the fixed timeline will only be 98% accurate at most, due to the strain you place on the time-space continum and the events you've changed.

I think that time travel is impossible, no matter how interesting it is in fiction, it will remain just that. The whole idea is too complex to become a reality. The more people abuse the natural flow of time the more the universe deteriorates and the more history is corrupted. Imagine someone builds a time machine and decides to kill Hitler, it sounds like a good idea at first, save millions of people, prevent the biggest war in the history of man, but think of what else won't happen. We wouldn't have the UN to prevent another global conflict, there would be no Israel, Jews would still face persecution in much of the world. It took a horrible atrocity for us tor realize how racist we could be and to change that for the better. Man should not muck about with time for any reason, even a positive action can have negative side effects.

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

Back when I was in college, I used to watch Adult Swim, and one of the shows (I can't remember what it was called, but it was darn funny). Well, one of the supporting characters was a robot, and when a main character asked him (it?) what time it was, the robot responded, (paraphrased) "Time is an abstract concept developed by carbon-based lifeforms to track their own decay." He went on to talk about how he had no usage for time.

If I think about this (and I try not to, because it gives me a headache), what if calling time the 4th dimension is wrong? What if it's the wrong assumption to think that time exists at all except as a means to know when to go to work or whatever? Thus, anyone saying that it is possible to travel through time would be wrong, because time doesn't exist in the first place. Now, I'm not a physicist or any sort of expert, I'm just saying what I've thought about a little bit.

However, looking at it from a different point of view, you can make a case for an infinitely large universe. You know what has to fill an infinitely large universe? Infinite possibilities. Assuming time does exist and it is indeed the fourth dimension (which is generally accepted in the physics community), then someone, somewhere has figured out how to time travel (and Spider-Man is fighting crime, and Superman is patrolling Metropolis, etc). Sound hokey? Well, that's what infinite possibilities will get you!

[ShortStraw 1]

Watch the movie "Primer".

The only Time Travel movie that ever made me think seriously on the subject, it presents an interesting philosophical dilemma.

More about the movie here- http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0390384/

[fukuda 351]

and when a main character asked him (it?) what time it was, the robot responded, (paraphrased) "Time is an abstract concept developed by carbon-based lifeforms to track their own decay." He went on to talk about how he had no usage for time.

If I think about this (and I try not to, because it gives me a headache), what if calling time the 4th dimension is wrong? What if it's the wrong assumption to think that time exists at all except as a means to know when to go to work or whatever? Thus, anyone saying that it is possible to travel through time would be wrong, because time doesn't exist in the first place. Now, I'm not a physicist or any sort of expert, I'm just saying what I've thought about a little bit.

quote>

Our perception of time does vary and is subjective, indeed, it is processed by our brain, as it also processes the incoming light on your eye sensors and projects a distorted perspective view of the other 3 dimensions.

But time is not a mere invention of our brain, time is what allows particles, matter, to move and to flow energy in and out. That's why time is calculated with movement, sun position, sand or water falling, conventional watches, digital watches (vibration of quartz crystals), atomic clocks...

Time is a vital part of our universe, not a mere concept to schedule things. Minutes, seconds, hours, are arbitrary units, yes, but to measure a real dimension (aka a thing that can be measured), like meters and feet are also arbitrary.

However, looking at it from a different point of view, you can make a case for an infinitely large universe. You know what has to fill an infinitely large universe? Infinite possibilities. Assuming time does exist and it is indeed the fourth dimension (which is generally accepted in the physics community), then someone, somewhere has figured out how to time travel (and Spider-Man is fighting crime, and Superman is patrolling Metropolis, etc). Sound hokey? Well, that's what infinite possibilities will get you!quote>

Well, good news, space is infinite, not in size, but you would never reach a limit as there is only space inside our universe, much like earth, earth's surface is finite, but you'll never reach an end if you travel through it's inner or outer surface, universe expands by increasing the sphere's ardius, so 2 points on its surface would separe themselves. (this is meant to be an approximative way to explain it, as a 4-dimensional space is nearly impossible to imagine by our minds)

But then, the rest of the quote is not following. what has to do infinite space with infinite possibilities? there's only 1 reality in this universe, as far as we can see.

[TimeMaster 4]

I know how to do time travel!!

Person1: Do you think time travel exists?

Person2: Yes!

Person1: Show me.

Person2: Wait here.

Person1: Ok.

2 Minutes later...

Person2: Welcome to the future!!

TIME TRAVEL IS REAL!

[coolotter88 2]

now go back 2 minutes to when the first person asks the second person to show the first person how to time travel.

[Eastwinn 6]

We all know of the Grandfather paradox. That disproves the possibility of time travel IMO.

[pagenotfound 53]

Originally posted by: Eastwinn We all know of the Grandfather paradox. That disproves the possibility of time travel IMO.quote>

 

I think I have a way around the Grandfather paradox. Kill him after your dad has left the household. That way you wouldnt have to worry about your dad and thus you not existing.

On a more serious note,
Time travel isnt a very good term. You do it with every passing second. We just want 'time acceleration. How to do that we dont really know but there are theories.

To travel to the future use time dilation. How do you do this?
Get inside a hollow (very) high mass object
or sit just outside the event horizon of a black hole (of course the intense gravity will shred you to bits) 
Or orbit the earth or any high mass object at light speed. Theres a problem with that- to accelerate a mass to the speed of light will require infinate energy. Even if you could go that fast the resulting visible blue shift will induce a lethel dose of gamma radiation.
By doing one of these- the clock will tick slower to you while everything outside will appear to flash by thus youll be seeing the future 

To (theoretically) travel to the past use a wormhole or black hole.
Of course wormholes are only theoretically thought to exist. Also it will take an immense amount of energy or negative energy to produce one and hold it open long eneough for a passage. 
Use the immense mass of (theoretical) cosmic strings to warp space. Get two of them parallell to each other space time will bend so intensly that time travel may be possible - in theory. Oh and BTW that will also use a hell of a lot of energy. 

Time travel if possible will have so many issues to overcome it just will not be practical. Therefore the chances of it ever being invented are probably nil. Though time travel will be very useful tool for all sorts of people like astronomers, geologists, meteorologist (imagine a 100% accurate weekly foreecast) historians even tourists.

[smstevenms 7]

This looks like a interesting topic, I'll have to revisit for sure!!

[Duke87 1,070]

Because it had to be done:

[TimeMaster 4]

Originally posted by: pagenotfound

Originally posted by: Eastwinn We all know of the Grandfather paradox. That disproves the possibility of time travel IMO.quote>

 

I think I have a way around the Grandfather paradox. Kill him after your dad has left the household. That way you wouldnt have to worry about your dad and thus you not existing.

On a more serious note,

Time travel isnt a very good term. You do it with every passing second. We just want 'time acceleration. How to do that we dont really know but there are theories.

To travel to the future use time dilation. How do you do this?

Get inside a hollow (very) high mass object

or sit just outside the event horizon of a black hole (of course the intense gravity will shred you to bits) 

Or orbit the earth or any high mass object at light speed. Theres a problem with that- to accelerate a mass to the speed of light will require infinate energy. Even if you could go that fast the resulting visible blue shift will induce a lethel dose of gamma radiation.

By doing one of these- the clock will tick slower to you while everything outside will appear to flash by thus youll be seeing the future 

To (theoretically) travel to the past use a wormhole or black hole.

Of course wormholes are only theoretically thought to exist. Also it will take an immense amount of energy or negative energy to produce one and hold it open long eneough for a passage. 

Use the immense mass of (theoretical) cosmic strings to warp space. Get two of them parallell to each other space time will bend so intensly that time travel may be possible - in theory. Oh and BTW that will also use a hell of a lot of energy. 

Time travel if possible will have so many issues to overcome it just will not be practical. Therefore the chances of it ever being invented are probably nil. Though time travel will be very useful tool for all sorts of people like astronomers, geologists, meteorologist (imagine a 100% accurate weekly foreecast) historians even tourists.

quote>

Pagenotfound that is exactly the point of time travel. But you will have to be very careful. Watch this letter picture 2000 2050 3000 ----------------------------------------------------------------- You:----- -- (then you go back to 2000) You: ---------------------------------- -( the lifeline finds yourself, so your the time traveler and the person whos sees this young perso hop out of your time machine. Very complicated, thanks for replying (even though its not my topic).

[KonstantinII 1,106]

If time travel was possible it would only be to the past, how could you travel to somewhen that has not happened yet? you would have no refrencne points to get there, that empty lot today might have something there when you ge to it.

Not that that would matter. My theory is that if you did travel in time you would only be able to observe you imediate surroundings anyway. what ever deivce you used to travel in would probabaly have some type of field surrounding it that would prevent you from leaveing that device.So there would be no changing of history.

My 2nd theory is that if in the future time travel is possible nothing would change anyway

since that fact they travel back in time is already part of history.

You guys are all wrong! Time is not a two-way street.It is not even a street.Events just happen and time is not a 4 dimension.

[astronelson 339]

Please do not revive or bump old threads after they have dropped to the later pages, unless there is significant new topical information to add.

Thread Closed.