Tutorial: Converting Microsoft Flight Simulator aircraft into props

[ardecila 124]

Originally posted by: The Big Z I know this will bump this thread from obscurity, but I can't get MDL2DXF to convert. I can start it, and everything, but soon after I click 'convert', I get a message from windows saying the programs stopped working...Is there something I should change? I tried running it with XP compatibility, but it did the samething.quote>

Umm...  I can't really help you here.  MDF files created for recent versions of Flight Simulator are created with gmax, and so MDL2DXF can't read them.  Sometimes it freezes when converting them instead of simply spitting out an error message.

It's ironic that models originally created in gmax can't be converted and imported back into the program.

[bourneid 13]

Um...  I may be speaking outta turn... and this may have been said before...  just as this site has rules about using others props and such only when permission is granted... we really shouldnt be using the planes and textures gotten from FS sites. 

This thread should be closed and I request that those of you with good sense not take part in this activity... 

members of the FS community do also visit around here... (one in particular is the primary modeler for one of the best freeware groups) and see this type of this as stealing.

the Lead modeler for ProjectOpensky was going to bring his whole collection of AC models over into SC4 but decided not to after seeing some of his models and some of the PoSKY painters textures being claimed as works of members here.

Do not steal the work of others without asking them first.... and criedit should be given to them as well.

not cool at all

[david1314 44]

^ Um, this is the modeling equivalent of a screen shot. Quit posting bogus legal threats! There is nothing wrong, illegal, or immoral about this method.

[Jasoncw 11,841]

Yes, everyone get permission from the original creators before putting anything on the STEX.

This thread is a useful resource for those who have made planes or have permission to use planes from Flight Simulator, and would like to convert them for SC4 use.  So I won't be closing this thread.

If you encounter shady STEX uploads and BAT previews, report them to a moderator.

[BIWDC 2,296]

I was thinking about this myself.I haven't tried it yet with flight sim
stuff(great that it works).I did try it with microsoft train sim stuff though
(which also uses gmax)& it works had to scale down the models
though,never fully used it just did some test but it's also possible.

( If used on others files this is for personal use only unless someone
grants premission to use there files)I felt it proper to add this.

(Also what i wrote above was about files that were already gmax files
not anything decompiled.I don't think there is a decompiler for train sim
& i didn't even know there was one for flight sim)



 

[ardecila 124]

I've never condoned the sharing of such files on the STEX or through any other method (unless permission is obtained), but I see nothing wrong with doing the conversions for personal use.

I basically wrote a whole book about this on the last page.

[david1314 44]

Also, it would probably be less work to just BAT the aircraft yourself. They're not particularly difficult, (a tutorial for the rather simple P-38 exists from discrete themselves)...you don't need much detail for an aircraft in SC4. Liveries are quite readily available from airlines websites...typically cropped to scale (provided in their various media or marketing sections)...

A rather broad selection of 3-views for various commercial aircraft is available here: http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/manatee/272/ (damn...I cannot believe this site is still around! it's been here for like 7-10 years...and on a related note, aircraft designed after late 1990s don't seem to be there)...

I must admit, I'm really quite surprised there isn't a vast selection of aircraft props based on how simple this is.

[exodus 10]

To take this thread in a different direction... How do you apply textures to the models, I've been having some problems. Mainly when ever i apply a texture it either just shows up as a beige colour or as a swirl of colour that resembles nothing of the picture.

Is there another way of texturing? david1314 what do you mean about airline providing liveries? Is this a simple option (you make it sound quite easy).

Thanks

[david1314 44]

Well, most aircraft photos tend to be perfect profiles. There is no exception for the marketing materials that airlines provide.

Go to airliners.net even. You can use a profile of any aircraft for the texture and just trace out what you want from the existing aircraft. If you do dirt, doors, rivits, and windows layers, you can pump out fresh paint schemes in minutes.

If you're really crafty, you'll find some aerial photos that can aid you with wing texturing .

[ianpaschal 77]

Originally posted by: exodus To take this thread in a different direction... How do you apply textures to the models, I've been having some problems. Mainly when ever i apply a texture it either just shows up as a beige colour or as a swirl of colour that resembles nothing of the picture.

Is there another way of texturing? david1314 what do you mean about airline providing liveries? Is this a simple option (you make it sound quite easy).

Thanksquote>

Sounds like you're having a UVW problem.  There's 2 fixes, one messy, one clean:

Messy:  Get a "map" of all the images for the plane, (logos, windows, etc.) and apply that material to the whole plane object.  Then add an "Unwrap UVW" modifier and click Edit and move the mess of lines and points around to make the texture fit the plane.  This will take a lot of experimentation but yield a good result if done properly.

Clean: As David said, simply find a left or right profile image for the whole plane and slap that on.  If it still looks fugly then apply a Planar UV Map to it from the modify panel.

[exodus 10]

Hey Scipio thanks for the reply. When you say "map" do you mean i should take all the different texture files and add them into one? Should I make it resemble a plane or can they be all over the place?

Thanks

[ianpaschal 77]

Correct.  Here's a map I made for a house for a 3d game, it was low poly, and the textures all needed to be in one PNG file.

Here's how I would it:

1. Get all my textures, side on fuselage, top down wings, etc., and put them all one one map.

2. Break the plane up into parts that will be textured top down, such as wings, and parts that will be textures from the side, such as the fuselage and tail.

3. First apply planar UV maps from the UV Map Modifier on each piece just to get them straightened out, and then reconvert them to meshes or polies or whatever.  Use the X Y and Z buttons to get it the right direction and it "Fit" to make it the right shape.

4. Then apply a UVW unwrap modifier and click edit.  Click the drop down menu on the upper right to set it to show your texture, then if you had done the previous step right, then you will see a wireframe of your wing, transposed over the texture.  Now you need to move it and scale it and adjust it so that it fits right over the texture, and voila!  there it is!

5. After you have mapped every wing, you can convert all the pieces back into Polys or Meshes which will colapse their modifiers and mapping coordinates into the poly, then reattach everything.

[bourneid 13]

Originally posted by: ardecila I've never condoned the sharing of such files on the STEX or through any other method (unless permission is obtained), but I see nothing wrong with doing the conversions for personal use.

I basically wrote a whole book about this on the last page.quote>

 

there have been several models passed around here that I know for sure have listed in their readme's that decompileing, altering the models itself or using in a manor inconsistant with the creators origional intent w/ out permission is a violation of the licance granted you...  

This isnt some legal threat.... but a personal call to you guys... and the modorators that just as we have gotten up in arms when our communities props and models have been posted on other sites... or edited to remove the criedit to the origional creators... We should not condon here on this site the same activity...

This is completly against the Ideals and the principals that we uphold for ourselves for members of this site.... 

if someone started uploading Simgoobers lots...but changed the names... and gave no criedit... would the mods not remove the lot for the STEX.... would not negitive comments be left for that person about stealing...  So so we accept any less behaivor from ourselfs... just because the models are from a diffrent community?

Look at my profile... I am not just someone from the FS community that rolled in and is trying to pick a fight...  I have been around the SC4 community for a long time... I just dont think we should cheapen ourselves like this and tolorate bad behaivor... and the stealing of other "freeware custom content" creators work... they work very hard to bring folks this that make our games more enjoyable....  

Lets show them some respect

[david1314 44]

You are not decompiling anything of the modelers. They COPIED (as a more perfect representation) an original design and an original livery. Neither of which were theres.

Insofar as 'decompiling', it's actually converting because you're keeping the same raw data from the FS .mdl file, is just an attempt to acquire a more perfect representation, and would likely come out apparently identically if modeled from scratch.

The textures are the more touchy issue...though the way FS reads textures is vastly different from the way BAT does, so they'd be useless (we've all seen a few white dots in screen shots that people alledge to be aircraft).

What it really comes down to though is that there is NO LEGAL ISSUE here. Because all models in question (I presume) are freeware, and because there is no reasonable overlap in usage of SC4 material for FS users (a SC4 model could not be used for anything to a flightsimmer). Quite simply, the original designer could never show that they had incurred actual damages from the SC4 communities alleged misuse. That is to say, they could not build a prima facie case against any in the SC4 community or with distribution of materials thereof. So copyright law does NOT apply here.

Even if copy right law did apply, the above situation would be covered by fair use (you can read all about that here):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

It's not that I don't respect you bourneid, or the length of time you've been here...indeed, I've been a member here as long as you and a member of the FS community (dating back to Nels Anderson's flightsim.com) since 1997.

The problem is that people seem to think using a computer is illegal unless a specific law protect it. That's is not the case. You may use your computer for what ever you please unless there is a law against it. Currently, in the US and UK (I presume Canada as well), laws only exist against using the internet for soliciting sexual acts to a minor (internet prostitution, for example, has no law against it, only prostitution laws apply) and soliciting murder or 'terrorism'.

Let's feel free to use our computers.

[Jasoncw 11,841]

You may only upload things which you have permission from the creator to redistribute.

There's not going to be any more debating anything related to copyright or permission in this thread.

~Official Warning~

[bourneid 13]

Runaway Bride always makes me cry...

They're so good together.

(special note..... the above statement has been edited in by a mod/admin and does not contain the post info that I intended...  nore is it funny, or marked and edited by a mod...  childish I think.)

(special note 2: this poster nether watches nor supports watching films deemed to be in the "chickflick" type... nor has he even been known to qoute lines from "Steel Magnolias", "You got mail", the Piano" or any weepy forean language love/romance movie.... these are baseless aligations made to discreidit his good name... ) 

[david1314 44]

Who could ever run from Richard Gere?  He makes me toasty.

Originally posted by: bourneid(special note..... the above statement has been edited in by a mod/admin and does not contain the post info that I intended...quote>

They did show "edited by" at the bottom below your signature....but that disappears when you reedit.

[bourneid 13]

Funny... nice edit... mod...  though I think that the message wasnt all that off base... and it wasnt combative..  and more folks around here would do well to learn self respect and respect for others. 

But hey.. its good to know that though this site has abandoned its principals that it once had..  a few years ago this wouldnt have even been a debate... Ry, dirk, or ski would have closed this thread as soon as it opened and started talking about tampering with others work without permission.

but hey... whatever floats your boat.

[Jasoncw 11,841]

Yes, everyone get permission from the original creators before putting anything on the STEX.

This thread is a useful resource for those who have made planes or have permission to use planes from Flight Simulator, and would like to convert them for SC4 use.  So I won't be closing this thread.

If you encounter shady STEX uploads and BAT previews, report them to a moderator.quote>

You may only upload things which you have permission from the creator to redistribute.

There's not going to be any more debating anything related to copyright or permission in this thread.

~Official Warning~quote>

1.  This thread is not for arguing about the site's policy.  I don't even know why you're here in the first place, because what you're arguing for is, and has been, the site's policy.

2.  This thread was created in 2005 ("a few years ago") and none of the moderators of this forum since then, or any of the admins (the same ones in your signature, right?  ) have deleted it.

And I won't be either.  I can tell you that you will be gone before this thread is, if you (or anyone else) don't drop the issue.

And banned members can't edit their posts!  And who knows what they'll say then. 

[bourneid 13]

what I am saying though Jason... is that currently models ARE being used, as well as textures and other material from the FS community here now... 

and though as you say the thread implys that that is the intention of the site... it is infact leading some to the conclusion that they have open permission to steal from FS.

I am stating that this thread and the links to the converter should be removed from the site... and that it should be made more clear that that will not be exceptable... 

just from the post that have been made recently it is clear that not everyone is clear that you cant just convert the files and post them. 

I am glad that the sites policy is such... but to go along with it the links to the MDF converter plugin should be remove.. it is being linked in other threads as a way for those that cant model them temselve can get plane models.

It isnt my intent to start a fight, but make sure that this is not agreeable to the ideas of the site and that it isnt supported. That we show the proper respect to that community as we would expect for ourselves.

Now that we are clear on the fact that ST does not except the use of others work and that models that apear to be taken from the FS community will be removed if posted on the STEX... my point is made... but I ask that you take it a step further and remove the links to the converter and directions on how the process is done....  if the origional creators intend or support their work being included in the SC4 community I am sure that they wouldnt mind shareing the models themselves or the locations of converters.

would you not agree. 

the reason I stepped into this thread is the fact that a modeler for ProjectopenSky was interested in sharing his work over here... and was working with the BAT tool to get the right scale and such... untill he found some work that he is sure is not supposed to be available yet.. including his... (many freeware model'ers intentionally put "defects or shapes" into there models to ensure they dont get stolen and put into "payware" works).

Because of that (he accually linked me to this thread) he has chosen not to share his collection of models with this community. 

which is our great loss... because he has some of the best works out there...planes, service vehicals and such... he has also worked on seveal "payware" scenery packs... which would have given us access to some high detail airport buildings and such.

that is why I am commenting in this thread... because it already has done some harm

[Jasoncw 11,841]

I'll add a note to the first post of this thread.

Thanks for your concern for our, and their community.  But the tutorial will stay open.  If you have any ideas that do not include locking, deleting, or making the tutorial less available, you can post them.  Except for that though, this is the end of that discussion.

[bourneid 13]

I was hoping that the links would be removed.. but that should be a clear enough warning, hopefully that will be enough....


It kinda sucks though that though I was just pointing out what has already been the stated rules (ie no stealing others work, claiming it as own) and the idea of respecting other "freeware" creators work, that I should be treated as a trouble maker... 

[david1314 44]

Here I was saying you don't need to feel like a thief for using your own computer, and people somehow think I'm advocating piracy and also treat me like a trouble maker....huh?!

I never said anything about distribution (or about use of commercial work)...

[BIWDC 2,296]

Originally posted by: bourneid what I am saying though Jason... is that currently models ARE being used, as well as textures and other material from the FS community here now... quote>

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What files are you refering to if you know of any report them & a staff member will have a look.

[david1314 44]

Another example of this stupid sue-your-ass-or-get-permission mentality here:

https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=19210

Have a look at the comments.

[ianpaschal 77]

Originally posted by: david1314 Another example of this stupid sue-your-ass-or-get-permission mentality here:

https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=19210

Have a look at the comments.quote>

Good god.  You must not be any kind of artist or have any work or intellectual property under your name.  Remind me to never give you any of my work, sine I know you won't treat it with a lick of respect.  Most artists will imply that they prefer their work not to be redistributed without permission, and if they don't care, they'll usually say so.

I think if it was okay for that guy to use GLENNI'S building is up to GLENNI not you.

[bourneid 13]

Jason... it would help to have the requirment that any AC uploads to the STEX have a model shot with the normal display images. Sense most AC model'ers have others that create paints for them they usually put the "tells" in the model itself..  ie a slightly of shape here or there, a particular verticy cut or some other artifact. 

I think that only "props" or lots that use AC props need this requirment... sense automotia isnt really using the models themselves... only FSH images of it...  its still kinda the technicallity but almost all the work is really dont Moder here using the reader or whatnot as apossed to using the FS modelers work directly as an object.

Scipio, I agree with you... its easy for someone to not care about someone stealing work, when its not their work...

david1314 said:

Here I was saying you don't need to feel like a thief for using your own computer, and people somehow think I'm advocating piracy and also treat me like a trouble maker....huh?!

I never said anything about distribution (or about use of commercial work)... 

No one pointed fingers... it was a general statement and directed to the community rather then at any one member.

I was refering (when saying I was being labled a trouble starter) to the PM I got saying that I continued I would be banned from the site. The particular mod needs to learn a bit more about the proper use of athourity...  JasonW, I am glad to see, was reasonable and compermised with me... by adding the disclamer in the thread... wish more "debates" that have gone on around here would have ended as "peacefully"

[david1314 44]

Originally posted by: Scipio

Originally posted by: david1314 Another example of this stupid sue-your-ass-or-get-permission mentality here:

https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=19210

Have a look at the comments.quote>

Good god.  You must not be any kind of artist or have any work or intellectual property under your name.  Remind me to never give you any of my work, sine I know you won't treat it with a lick of respect.  Most artists will imply that they prefer their work not to be redistributed without permission, and if they don't care, they'll usually say so.

I think if it was okay for that guy to use GLENNI'S building is up to GLENNI not you. quote>

Where did that come from?  That's totally uncalled for.

[ianpaschal 77]

Originally posted by: david1314

Originally posted by: Scipio

Originally posted by: david1314 Another example of this stupid sue-your-ass-or-get-permission mentality here:

https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=19210

Have a look at the comments.quote>

Good god.  You must not be any kind of artist or have any work or intellectual property under your name.  Remind me to never give you any of my work, sine I know you won't treat it with a lick of respect.  Most artists will imply that they prefer their work not to be redistributed without permission, and if they don't care, they'll usually say so.

I think if it was okay for that guy to use GLENNI'S building is up to GLENNI not you. quote>

Where did that come from?  That's totally uncalled for.quote>

Not at all.  It's quite apparent that you don't really understand the artist's point of view.  By saying things like; "Another example of this stupid sue-your-ass-or-get-permission mentality," you show that you:

A. Don't really understand how it feels to have your work redistributed against your wishes.

B. Don't treat artist's work with respect and feel you can and should do with it whatever the hell  you please.

It's not a mentality, its morality.  This kind of morality involves intellectual property, which I doubt you have, or you would share this view.  Suppose you wrote a song, and then played it for your friend.  That song was your property, but your friend is actually you, and feels he "shouldn't be afraid to use his computer" to post it on forums freely.  Before you know it everyone else is playing this song and stealing your credit.  Might feel pretty crummy.  I know it does when I have my ideas or work stolen, and unless you can read people's minds, you'd do well to ask them before you do it.

[Jasoncw 11,841]

I'm going to lock this thread for a little while.

Finish your discussions by PM.