NAM General Discussion Thread

[Ryanr 15]

 

Sorry to reply so late, but I've beeen real busy with schoolwork the last couple of days.

I've started making the new piece for the ped. tiles, but there is a problem.

 I attached the fille with what I was working on. It is the 1x2 piece. It looks great in the reader, but when I try to use it in the game it makes everything screwy, it makes the entire graphics engine go crazy. Can someone take a look at it. Also could a mod delete the last two post. Thanks

 

DON'T download this file unless you know what you are doing.

[Thalassicus 33]

Date: 9/15/2004 10:00:52 PM
Author: ardecila
Two more notes: #21 has been done by TGC (look back in the thread) and #24 is not possible under the NAM (puzzlepieces can't have retaining walls).

quote>
Sorry that I changed the numbering out from under you (was merging some requests )

With 21 are you referring to a Y/Trumpet with even distribution of traffic? I might have missed it when sifting through the posts, if you could point me to it it would be appreciated.

With 24 (now #21) could the retaining walls be included as part of the 3ds model? The way I understand it the model would be designed to be stretched to the angle used by the sunken ground highway hole digger, with the retaining wall included. When converted to a puzzle piece and plopped on the correct slope, it would be vertically upright (and transit-enabled like the rest of the puzzle pieces). An additional piece would be necessary to transition the access road over to allow for onramps and offramps. If this can't be done for some reason, I can cross off that request, but it looks like with all the crazy terrain-skewed interchanges people have posted it should be possible.

[kassarc16 4]

Just had to show my latest use of NAM features. I really think the 3-way Ave-Y would work much better than a highway one because of access. Here's my lovely city center shot.

 

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

right.. here are my questions

first.. im sure this is possible.. but can it be made so a highway stay level but the ground around it changes WHEN it transitions from raised to ground or vise versa..? im sure it can be done if the land heights are JUST right..

but any way this brings me onto my second thing

since the NAM does a lot of its own terra(de-)forming now, can it be made so the land under a on/off-ramp raises or lowers? so that: 1) it is not suspended in air, 2) you can have various heights for the exit (similar to the way a raised highway's onramp goes downwards.. can a ground highway's go upwards, having the landscape cut perfectly underneath it, and then emerge into a (road, oneway road, whatever) at that different height of terrain to the highway??

EDIT

and my raised highways have no legs lol (supports)

[rubberring 0]

what about this suggestion for using the ant network:



it's a cheap middle thing between road and avenue. you should also be able to provide the second line to the other direction using a transformation-road-tile.

[jasperdeman.nl 1]

Date:9/15/2004 3:36:04 PM
Author:Thalassicus

19) Many requests

'Would it be possible to create narrow ground highway access ramps in addition to the standard 3-tile ones?'

 

quote>

 

This would be extremely usefull for those ho want to use the multyhighway-thing en spicially if this could be done for a ground-highway to ground-highway transition:

So that traffic from the middle-highway could go tot the outer lanes where they could like exit the highway.

[Andreas Roth 607]

Date: 9/16/2004 12:46:30 AM
Author: Ryanr

Sorry to reply so late, but I've beeen real busy with schoolwork the last couple of days.

I've started making the new piece for the ped. tiles, but there is a problem.
I attached the fille with what I was working on. It is the 1x2 piece. It looks great in the reader, but when I try to use it in the game it makes everything screwy, it makes the entire graphics engine go crazy. Can someone take a look at it. Also could a mod delete the last two post. Thanks

DON'T download this file unless you know what you are doing.

quote>
I didn't test this in an existing city, but look what you've made: Diagonal ped-mall puzzle pieces! They only work on flat ground, but they look great, I think.

[Tropod 144]

I just plan to try & answer some of the questions/issues that've been asked over the last however long it's been since I posted in my favourite thread .....


Technically, the NAM doesn't even actually touch any Lots, at all whatsoever (this includes not actually touching the EI Rail Train station). So with the EI Rail UDI; basically the EI Train Station has been *linked up with* EI Train UDI (in a manner of speaking) via the use of a custom LUA file. So as far as custom EI Rail Stations not working at all with EI Rail UDI; well that's not an issue with or a fault of the NAM, but rather an issue/fault with the custom EI Rail Station Lot (& quite possibly how it's been made/used). If anyone wants to send me anything to look at though regarding it, to look at the problem, I'd be more than happy to (just send any files to XXXTropodXXX@yahoo.com.au be sure the files are zipped though).

Regarding Lots not being included in the NAM at all: T7T has explained this aspect rather quite well. I (currently) don't really have anything more to add regarding the matter. So will people please quit asking about it thanks. If this particular aspect of the mod changes (& by some chance a Lot is included), I'm sure you'll all be the first to know.

Marrast's underpass Lots have been mentioned in this thread quite a few times. If someone wants to convert one of these Lots to a proper network-based S3D model (see the Interchange Tutorial thread), well then someone could possibly take a look further into the matter. But until then, don't count on seeing them included (as they are Lots).

Textures; the current Textures used for the Ped Mall Tiles, were actually taken straight from the games own files, & used without any modifications (apart from changing the GID of the file). For some reason, somewhere through the process the lighting of the textures got changed somehow. This wasn't something that was done intentially, but rather occurred on its own. So for this reason we should just be aware that this happens.

Those of you with problems getting anything in the NAM to work; please oh please, do read the files that come with the mod in the first instance. I don't know how many times this has been said, by myself & others. If you've actually read & followed the Q&A, & still have problems, then I'd suggest downloading the mod again (as it's quite possible it hadn't downloaded properly).

Making the EI Rail & ground rail tools function so that they join when joining the two together in-game using the EI Rail &/or ground rail tools (like ground to elevated highway); this is indeed possible, as I had done just this quite some time ago. An issue with this though, are the Paths & the functional aspect of the whole thing. Transit Enabled Lots are able to convert one transport type to another, & it is why they're best used for certain aspects (like subway to EI Rail connector). But for something that involves joining *two* networks without the use of a Transit Enabled Lot, well it really is a whole other matter. Even *if* it were to function properly, it would most likely require a complete rewrite of all Path files for both ground rail & EI Rail networks. And even then, it wouldn't necessarily function as intended.

As for car-based/enabled puzzle pieces; I wish someone would explain this to me (too). I'm a little lost with the whole aspect of it to be honest. The way I see it, cars would still simply just commute *through* them, just like they would any other section of (road-based) network. So if by using them, sims find a more efficient path to use, well they'll just use them (instead, & visa versa). That's not to say it's a bad idea though, far from it, I just wish I understood it a bit better.

Onewayroad to road head-on connection; it's not a problem. Someone make some proper/appropraite textures, & I'm sure it can be included. Even diagonal onewayroad to diagonal road head-on connection could be done.

Any *real* 3D Model in the games own existing/original files/dats can be converted/extracted & imported into Gmax/bat. I don't exactly recall off-hand the process, but it's not all that difficult to do.

As for the/a official 'replier' of this thread; there never has been one really. The contents NAM is the efforts of more people than just myself (& I've always tried to make this very clear); so if others wish to reply/respond to peoples posts, then they're more than welcomed to do so, so long as the info posted isn't inaccurate.

As for finding any (FSH) files in the dats: typically, the LE displays the InstanceID (or ID) of the fsh/props/textures/items/etc in the LE itself. You just need to make note of this ID; and then using the Readers' Virtual Dat (& using the Index Analyser), you can obtain these files much more easily. Sometimes though, finding things like a specific on/offramp requires looking through the games files, file by file (see the Reader Guide for info etc on the Reader).

As for FSH files being the needed format; it just is. It's like, exe are exe, because they are. This game requires certain things to be in certain formats; networks & FSH files are no exception.

As for FSH files
-for S3D modelled-networks; typically, you only need one FSH file, & that's it (more may be needed though, depending on how big the model is, but for one zoom/rotation etc, only one FSH file is actually needed for the S3D model). And, the FSH file for the S3D model can't be any bigger than 128x128, otherwise issues arise for those who play the game in software mode.
-for Texture-based networks; you really only need to do up one BMP file for the different wealth levels, 128x128 pixels big. FSHman is capable of converting the file to FSH & generating the rest.

As for when/if something is going to be done/made; it's been mentioned before, that if someone actually models something (*properly*), it'll most likely be included. So take a look at the Interchange Tutorial stickied thread at the top of this forum; as that contains the basic fundamentals for creating network-based items. Any technical questions/problems etc regarding this process, please post in that thread.

If your post doesn't get a response at all, I would suggest perhaps revising, re-wording &/or elaborating a lot more on your post.

And lastly, regarding a new thread: something will be done about this, so that perhaps some things are a bit more easier to deal with, & perhaps we won't see so much repetition (but, repetition is a given anyhow, considering how lazy some folk can be). So expect a change of function/direction (to some degree) for this thread soon.

boy was that ever a mouthful.....

[the7trumpets 10]

Yikes, that was a lot of info in a small space!

Date: 9/16/2004 11:11:17 AM
Author: Tropod

As for car-based/enabled puzzle pieces; I wish someone would explain this to me (too). I'm a little lost with the whole aspect of it to be honest. The way I see it, cars would still simply just commute *through* them, just like they would any other section of (road-based) network. So if by using them, sims find a more efficient path to use, well they'll just use them (instead, & visa versa). That's not to say it's a bad idea though, far from it, I just wish I understood it a bit better.

quote>


Anyway, Tropod, here's an answer to that question, hopefully:

As I said earlier (no fault attatched since you've been gone for a few days), the benefit is largely cosmetic. It basically allows strip malls to be created with semi-realistic looking parking lots surrounding the commercial buildings, and the buildings still being developed. You are correct, about the possibility of sims commuting through these puzzle pieces. However, the paths would be written sucn that cars could not cross over parking spaces, meaning it would be possible to design a parking lot that you would have to weave around enough that drivers wouldn't cut through the parking lot because it's no longer a short cut.

Will drives still commute through these tiles? Unfortunately, probably yes. It largely depends on how you design the parking lot. An idea I proposed quite a while back was to actually use transit enabled lots (duck and cover, hoping Tropod doesn't hit me over the head ) as the entrance tiles to the parking lot. The advantage of doing it this way is that we could use the transit switch cost to deter drivers from taking a short cut, while those who have to drive in to work would gladly go through the transit enabled lot, because it's the only way to get to work.

However, the converse idea, of using all puzzle pieces and using RUL overrides to make the network tiles next to the entrance puzzle piece line up with it (and actually have a driveway), has one other benefit. You wouldn't be required to draw a street into the entrance tile to actually see automata turning into the parking lot.

To be honest, I'm a bit torn on which is the better approach. Since we can do it without the transit enabled lot though, I'm inclined to think we should do without. Especially since mayors can completely eliminate the possibility of commuting through the parking lot by only having one entrance/exit to the parking lot.



If this doesn't clear it up, please ask again. I'm sorry for the confusion I've insued by my ramblings on this subject in the past.

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

this cant be too much of a difficult one for someone to make

and i think it should be added if someone wants to make it! we have tons of roads and stretches of road like that here


I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION: more urgent - how do i get the textures from the models in iLive reader?? ive found nearly all the highways pieces thanx to the help.. but when i export them, i only get the model, no textures - ive tried increaing the filter in the reader to also show FSH files in the SC1.dat file - but it doesnt show any

i have FSHman ready for once i have them

what am i doing wrong?

[the7trumpets 10]

All of the highway textures are in the 0x02###### FSH series, which are all located in Simcity_4.dat

 

So, you were just looking in the wrong dat file .  Have fun!

 

 

 

[edit]

 

Okay, the new threads are up.  If you have a specific request, or are developing something, there is a new thread for you.  General discussion/comments will stay in this thread.

[Tropod 144]

new threads are up......yyaahhh

Do realise folk, that the two new threads will each serve specific purpose. Anything posted in them, that shouldn't be, will be deleted without warning & without notice (this is to ensure the greatest use of their purpose). So if you are unsure of anything/something, &/or where it should be posted, then by all means either post it here in this thread or PM T7T or myself.

For all the lazy folk out there the two new threads;
---------------------------------------------
NAM Requests
---------------------------------------------
NAM Development
---------------------------------------------

Please oh please, be sure to read the 1st post in the threads thoroughly & carefully before posting.

[Tropod 144]

Date: 9/16/2004 11:45:35 AM
Author: edcase2k4-thugangel1983
I HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION: more urgent - how do i get the textures from the models in iLive reader?? ive found nearly all the highways pieces thanx to the help.. but when i export them, i only get the model, no textures - ive tried increaing the filter in the reader to also show FSH files in the SC1.dat file - but it doesnt show any

i have FSHman ready for once i have them

what am i doing wrong?

quote>

When you export a S3D file, the Reader will only export the Model itself & nothing else. In order to extract the Texture file(s) used for the model; you need to make note of the InstanceID of the Texture file(s) used under the MATS tab on the S3D file itself; & then search/look through the files for that Texture file(s) (with the noted IID). Then, if you plan to use that Texture file in BAT/Gmax; well, that's a whole other process really - it's not really within the scope of this thread. There is a rather very old thread somewhere, that explains how to extract FSH files, convert them etc. I'll see if I can't find it.

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

where are the one way road and road textures...?.. i need to redign some to go with my model

im also tryna figure out how you work out the size of texture to fit perfectly on a created model once implemented in the game..

[the7trumpets 10]

oneways:

0x09######

roads:

0x00######

IIDs of the FSH files.

FYI, sc_2.dat through sc_5.dat are all FSH files. it starts witn instance 0x00000100 (road texture) in sc_5.dat, and goes up in instance numbers, toward sc_2.dat.

So, a higher instance number will be in a lower numbered dat file. Hope that helps!

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

thanx T7T

i have made a basic single highway offramp-to-oneway road gmax model piece. but as said in my previous post, i dont know how to know the exact sizes for the textures to be..

the model design is real basic and just a slight adaptation of a in-game offramp.. a better one could be made i guess - with a smoother offramp - if the ramp was made from scratch.. id like embankments at the side of the offramp too instead of it being suspended in air - im not sure if i can model embankments, cant the game change the terrain to fit under the ramp??

[ardecila 124]

Well, the terrain in the game isn't precise enough to make embankments. If you want them, you'll have to model them in gMax. The texture can be 128x128, otherwise issues arise for software-mode people (like me!).

Also, to extract the texture, just go into the S3D to the Mat tab, find the texture you want, right-click the image, and say save.

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

but.. if i model embankments under a offramp, and the terrain beneath in the GAME is not flat (i.e. is raised a bit compared to the ground under the highway) ..will the extra embankment just be sub-terrain and not be visible?? where the raised terrain has moved up through the bottom of the embankment?? if you know what i mean


also - i meant how can i make sure the DESIGN part of a texture fits snuggly inplace on my model???? for example.. if you have a straight highway - and it simply get WIDER - the design part of the texture within the bitmap will need to get wider also, and be in perfect proportion etc. ...im a bit unsure of how this is calculated and im wondering if anyone actually knows? (or knows what the hell i mean and am talking about lol)

[Thunderman 30]

T7T I saw that the new threads were up, but it makes me wonder, will it be more usefull when you made all the NAM threads sticky?

Because then it would be easier to find it and more effective in my opinion.
Just making suggestions and helping to make it more usefull.


Greetz Thunderm@n

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

here is my model - and the texture i do not mind making at all - but as said, i would need to know how to design the perimeters (of tarmac/markings/grass etc) so that it will fit perfectly into my model when it appears in the game

this is for (one design of) highway offramp to one-way, (im aware that people also want one which emerges in the cell right next to the highway, to run a parrallell one-way road - but i think there should be both )

as for the other parts (RULes, pathfinding, etc) i would need others to assist

[FireSka 20]

offramp to one-way road is already included in the mod...  Its under the single parellell onramp menu if you press tab, or is the only difference the two lane offramp?

[edcase2k4-thugangel1983 1]

is it???????????

well - there are minor differences .. this ends as a diagonal one way road instead.. yes it is a two lane offramp.. and it also raises as it leaves the highway (and the one way road i want to emerge on higher land.. i know this can be done from iamrobk's picture of an underwater ground highway - the onramps went upwards to higher land for the road they connect to

i also think (but am not sure) that for the offramp to one-way already in the NAM - it has to be a perpendicular one way road.. there is no way to form a smooth conversion (such as that in my texture diagram)


maybe someone can clarify what is already in the NAM concerning this

but regardless of the answer.. i still need help with my question about textures in my above post

and i would need others to do all the necessary (create RUL files, pathfinding, converting the gmax model and bitmap textures back into S3D and FSH files for in the game, etc.)


EDIT

i plan to make many more textures and models, just starting with the basic and working my way up (so i improve as i move to bigger creations )

[thpwrthtbe 1]

unsure of proper installation of NAM components. have searched in vain for the instructions, all i get is page unavailable      does anyone know where to obtain said information.

[greyveil 37]

the instructions are part of the download, start with the readme.htm


hope this helps...

[thpwrthtbe 1]

thats where i am getting the page unavailable errors.  thanks for replying

[greyveil 37]

are you extracting all the files to the same folder?

if you are and still getting this error then something on your local system is not working correctly because all these files are local on your machine.

it will be something to do with IE, what version of windows? do you have sp2 installed?

EDIT: I did notice there is an active x control on the instructions page, and sp2 will block this by default if you have told it to, otherwise it should prompt you to show it. END EDIT:

[Tropod 144]

Date: 9/16/2004 11:11:17 AM
Author: Tropod
As for FSH files
-for S3D modelled-networks; typically, you only need one FSH file, & that's it (more may be needed though, depending on how big the model is, but for one zoom/rotation etc, only one FSH file is actually needed for the S3D model). And, the FSH file for the S3D model can't be any bigger than 128x128, otherwise issues arise for those who play the game in software mode.

quote>

opps........just thought I'd correct myself here; that should of been 256x256 in the above, not 128x128.

[Thalassicus 33]

In conjunction with my request in the Requests forum, here is an excel spreadsheet I made which can automatically calculate the cost of any interchange when the number of each type of highway tile is entered. It matches the costs of the basic ground and elevated highway pieces, with realistic scaling factors for height and # of lanes.

Interchange Calculator.zip
[last updated 9/21/04 8:52pm GMT-6 (US central)]

[edit] I have now included a short tutorial on calculating the cost of an interchange. Extract the ZIP somewhere first to view the html file (or the images won't show up).

[rubberring 0]

is it possible to edit the original traffic light props or highway signs on intersections? i made some traffic signs in gmax and used it on lots as props and would like to know if it is possible to integrate this signs on intersections.

[the7trumpets 10]

Date: 9/17/2004 12:42:42 PM
Author: rubberring
is it possible to edit the original traffic light props or highway signs on intersections? i made some traffic signs in gmax and used it on lots as props and would like to know if it is possible to integrate this signs on intersections.

quote>


Yes, it is indeed possible

smoncrie has done the most work with it, I believe. It involves editing type 21 exemplars which have lotconfig lines in them, which control the prop placement.

There are some limitations to the logic the game uses to pick which type 21 exemplar to use, or how to rotate/filp it when the tile is rotated and flipped. But it is possible to make custom props and put them on network tiles.