Cigarette display ban in England considered

[belfastuniguy 18]

Cigarette display ban considered

The plans are being considered to dissuade children from smoking

Displaying cigarettes in shops could be banned in England under government plans being considered to cut smoking and discourage children from starting.

Tougher controls on vending machines in pubs and restaurants are also being discussed, and the public will be consulted on the proposals soon.

Ex-smoker and Tory leader David Cameron said the idea was worth looking at.

But the Association of Convenience Stores said the move would be ineffective and present major problems.

It said forcing shops to hide their cigarettes would create practical difficulties and result in extra expense for shop owners.

Under the counter

Outlining the proposals, Public Health Minister Dawn Primarolo said it was "vital" to teach children that "smoking is bad".

"If that means stripping out vending machines or removing cigarettes from behind the counter, I'm willing to do that," she said.

Ms Primarolo stressed: "Children who smoke are putting their lives at risk and are more likely to die of cancer than people who start smoking later."

Opposition leader Mr Cameron backed the idea, saying: "As someone who struggled with giving up smoking, it helps if you take away some of the temptation.

"It is difficult and there will be all sorts of problems in terms of the layout of shops, that's why it is right to have a consultation.

"Let's not rule it out," he added.

The measures could effectively force the sale of cigarettes and tobacco products under the counter in convenience shops and supermarkets.

Measures that make it easier to sell nicotine replacement gums and patches are also under consideration.

The Department of Health, which is keen to prevent youngsters from smoking, has cited research that suggests someone who starts smoking at the age of 15 is three times more likely to die of smoking-related cancer than someone who starts in their late 20s.

The proposed measures come after this year's Budget in which Chancellor Alistair Darling increased the duty on tobacco, adding 11p to the price of a packet of 20 cigarettes and 4p to the price of five cigars.

The chancellor also said the government was continuing the 5% reduced rate of VAT on smoking cessation products beyond 30 June.

A ban on smoking in public places and workplaces in England came into force last July.

Bans were introduced in Scotland in 2006, and in Wales and Northern Ireland in 2007.quote>

BBC NEWS

Personally I'm not bothered as I don't smoke, disgusting habit in my personal view. Though I would support a total ban on the sale of cigarettes, but that is a good many years ago I believe. I do support any proposal to help curb smoking in children and the wider population in general as the associated illness is a drain on the National Health Service.

 

 

[Meg 368]

I remember seeing cigarettes in vending machines but that was decades ago.  Nowadays, around here, cigarettes are behind the counter (or, in the case many convenience stores in overhead slots the cashier can reach). 

I have to admit that I didn't pay much attention to cigarette sales when I was in England.   I did notice that the concept of no-smoking sections hadn't really caught on back then.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Hmmm... a historically BBQ-prone subject. Here we go again!

Cigarettes will be illegal, and pot will be legal. It's already happening here in the Pacific NW.

[your_adress_here 11]

This is going into effect in Quebec sometime soon.

[DuskTrooper 314]

[panthersimcity4 162]

Blegh, why do people even smoke in the first place? I never understood that.

The thing that really irks me though is that Tobacco companies profit off of nicotine addiction, just like alot of Alcohol companies profit off of alcoholism.

[beebs 129]

All of the cigarette "power walls" are required to be taken down by summer, here in Alberta. I think it's a good thing.. those things are largely unnecessary. If I was going to buy smokes(which I don't), I don't think I'd need to see everything screaming at me behind the counter.

[Zelgadis 638]

Making cigarettes more mysterious and forbidden is bound to make sure kids become completely uninterested in them...

ISF

[Hahayoudied 3]

Why not make a ban on tobacco and alcohol advertisments that are targeted at kids and teenagers? Now that would greatly decrease the amount of people wanting to smoke.

[SgtJoeDes 0]

Yep, here in Quebec too. There already advertising it on TV and the radio. They say "Away from the eyes, away from your heart" or something like that. I think its a good thing.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Originally posted by: Hahayoudied Why not make a ban on tobacco and alcohol advertisments that are targeted at kids and teenagers? Now that would greatly decrease the amount of people wanting to smoke.quote>

It already is, in the US at least.  That's why Joe Camel left.

[belfastuniguy 18]

Same here in UK, such ads are banned. As well as junk food ads when stations are broadcasting children's programming.

[Micah 16]

I don't know. I'm divided on this issue. I'm not sure if I should be glad that the government is trying to make its country healthier or be worried to see that the government is increasingly taking the rights away of advertisers and shop owners.

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: Jasoncw

Originally posted by: Hahayoudied Why not make a ban on tobacco and alcohol advertisments that are targeted at kids and teenagers? Now that would greatly decrease the amount of people wanting to smoke.quote>

It already is, in the US at least.  That's why Joe Camel left.quote>

There haven't been cigarette TV ads in the US for decades.  But I can still sing all of the jingles from back in the day.

edit:

Originally posted by: Micah

I don't know. I'm divided on this issue. I'm not sure if I should be glad that the government is trying to make its country healthier or be worried to see that the government is increasingly taking the rights away of advertisers and shop owners.quote>

Like most things, I think a balanced mid point is best.  There are problems with either extreme.

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek I did notice that the concept of no-smoking sections hadn't really caught on back then.quote>

I forget who it was, but someone can be quited as having said "having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool". Silly, but he had a point. Smoke does waft around.

I remember as a kid when my family went to restaurants it was routing to be asked "smoking or non-smoking?" Nowadays, that doesn't happen anymore. You're not allowed to smoke in a restaurant, period, regardless of what the owner thinks. It's illegal.

I know that the supermarket in my town used to have a cigarette vending machine, but it's been gone for years. Nobody uses those things anymore since there's nothing to prevent a kid from putting money in and getting cigarettes out. It's not actually required that tobacco products be behind the counter only (there are still tobacco stores, and I've seen cigars out on the shelves in places), but pretty much everyone does it that way for practical business reasons. Put them behind the counter so you have to ask for them and the guy can ID you and make sure you're 18. Put them out on shelves and teens are going to be inclined to simply shoplift them since they can't buy them legally anyway.

[Aontan 0]

Ireland is doing this soon as well... Smoking is already banned in all workplaces and all advertising of tobacco is illegal.

Personally, I support any moves to reduce the number of smokers (and as a result the spending they waste on health services for smokers).

[TheQuiltedLlama 34]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

 Though I would support a total ban on the sale of cigarettes, but that is a good many years ago I believe. quote>

I fully support any measures to make cigarettes less easily available. However to ban them completely would the worst possible move to take. By banning the sale of cigarettes it would be pushed them into the hands on criminals, which would bring along the other problems such was crime that come along with illegal drugs. It would also make them more dangerous as there would cigarettes would no longer be regulated.

 

Why not make a ban on tobacco and alcohol advertisments that are targeted at kids and teenagers? Now that would greatly decrease the amount of people wanting to smoke.quote>

I'm pretty sure all taboacco advertisments have been banned outright already.

[coolotter88 2]

why complain about the so called "extra spending on health" when selling cigarettes lands you guys a nice piece of cash from taxes anyway? where does this tax go? shouldn't some of it go towards your NHS to fund the smoker's habits?

[fukuda 351]

When are they going to start persecuting minors smoking?

Meh

[Hahayoudied 3]

I do remember seeing 5 tobacco advertisment on this one maginzine......

[Simfan34 11]

Why don't we just BAN smoking? We're just doing that in teeny-weeny steps. Any move to curb or demonise this disgusting practice has my unequivocal support.

[TheQuiltedLlama 34]

Originally posted by: Simfan34 Why don't we just BAN smoking? quote>

I fully support any measures to make cigarettes less easily available. However to ban them completely would the worst possible move to take. By banning the sale of cigarettes it would be pushed them into the hands on criminals, which would bring along the other problems such was crime that come along with illegal drugs. It would also make them more dangerous as there would cigarettes would no longer be regulated.quote>

[TRNSTN 0]

Originally posted by: zelgadis Making cigarettes more mysterious and forbidden is bound to make sure kids become completely uninterested in them...

ISF

quote>

 

That's ironic because drugs seem to be just that, but look at how widespread they are and the problems they bring? (Edit: I don't think I got the irony in your original post haha nvm )

I''m all for the banning of cigarette power-walls in convenience stores, because you have kids of all ages going in to these stores before the right age. At least here in Ontario, Canada, our Alcohol is concentrated into one store and younger children have no business being there in the first place, so less temptation. 

These kinds of bans are just steps towards a smoke-less, well at least smokers-don't-affect-non-smokers future (does that make sense?)

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: TRNSTN

These kinds of bans are just steps towards a smoke-less, well at least smokers-don't-affect-non-smokers future (does that make sense?)quote>

It does make sense.  and, for the most part, I'm there.   I can usually go about life without encountering cigarette smoke which is a relief, to put it mildly.  It's gotten to the point where I'm surprised when I encounter it.

[fukuda 351]

Originally posted by: Duke87

I know that the supermarket in my town used to have a cigarette vending machine, but it's been gone for years. Nobody uses those things anymore since there's nothing to prevent a kid from putting money in and getting cigarettes outquote>

It's incredibly easy to prevent it, and that's why only cigarrette vending machines are allowed here.

They have a remote control, so the machine is just non-working unless the keeper activates it, and that's how kids can't use them.

All vending machines in Spain have remote controls by law

[belfastuniguy 18]

Yeah I agree with your point quilted lama, regarding the criminal black market if they are banned.

Though I can see a future where it is banned, though likely a couple of generations away and when smoking is no longer an issue and there would be no market for them. In the meantime I would like to see cigarettes age limits raised to 21 and the taxed massively increased, at least that way they can pay their way for the drain on the health service.

[TRNSTN 0]

Originally posted by: belfastuniguy

In the meantime I would like to see cigarettes age limits raised to 21 and the taxed massively increased, at least that way they can pay their way for the drain on the health service.quote>

I really like that idea, raising the age and also the taxes on the tobacco. If smokers complain then you can say we do it just the same for other burdens on society. Insurance costs for males age 16- 24 are generally much higher, although they do not always choose to drive dangerously and endanger other people's lives, they pay for their burden on society and the potential risk that comes with their age. Most male drivers of that age bracket are sensible (like myself ) but, generally it's just something we have to deal with because the high costs hope to discourage the super-charged adrenaline jet fuel burning individuals.

Same thing goes for smokers, and even worse they choose to smoke, no matter the age, so a price raise would greatly discourage a lot of smokers. They pay for their potential risk to other individuals and their burden on society.

[hym 358]

As one smoker said during a proposed California tax on cigarettes that would raise prices approximately 10%: I already pay $5 a pack. What's another 50 cents?

(This was coming from a person with a two pack a day habit, so the proposed tax would raise his habit from $3,650 yearly to roughly $4,000.)

[Duke87 1,070]

Originally posted by: fukuda When are they going to start persecuting minors smoking?quote>

Hopefully never. No one deserves to be persecuted. Prosecuted, on the other hand.....

...well, there's an issue there, too. At least in the US, it's not actually illegal for a minor to posses or use tobacco. It's only illegal for them to buy it, and for anyone to sell it to them. If you're 16 and your 19 year old brother buys you cigarettes, no crime has actually been committed. So there's nothing to prosecute.

Even still, it's always been standard tactics to go after the stores that sell tobacco to minors, not the minors that buy it. Both because it's generally considered more effective (teens are known to be willing to flout the law even if they risk getting in big trouble, adults generally are not so much) and because they get to hit the store owner with a much bigger fine and enhance the city coffers more.

It's incredibly easy to prevent it, and that's why only cigarrette vending machines are allowed here.

They have a remote control, so the machine is just non-working unless the keeper activates it, and that's how kids can't use them.

All vending machines in Spain have remote controls by lawquote>

Interesting. None of the machines we had here were remote controlled... and frankly, if someone needs to activate it every time, it kinda ruins the point of having a vending machine. He might as well just grab a pack off a shelf behind the counter and hand it to you. Vending machines are useless if they're not self-service.

Originally posted by: Aontan Personally, I support any moves to reduce the number of smokers (and as a result the spending they waste on health services for smokers). quote>

You know, that's not an issue if you're not using a state-run healthcare system. Then they can pay for the consequences of their bad habits themselves.

Originally posted by: Simfan34 Why don't we just BAN smoking? quote>

...because that would be oppressive? I'm not a smoker, and it does bother me when people smoke, but there are also things I like to do which bother other people (some of whom would no doubt like to see said things banned), and I just think "okay, how would I like it if the government up and decided that my hobby was illegal?"

Seriously, you can say "I hate it when people smoke, we should ban it" and feel okay about it, but how does it make the smokers feel? And how would you feel if someone else were to say "I hate it when people play Simcity, we should ban those games"? Yes, there are far better examples, but I don't know what potentially controversial things here people may enjoy... and you get the point, right?

I won't tell you what you can and can't do if you don't tell me what I can and can't do. It's a simple tradeoff. What was that old saying about "do unto others"? Yeah.

[Explodingsims 3]

Well, Nothing like the Government telling us what to do. Anywho...This is only going to end with MORE people smoking. This is just what happens when you try to make something popular mysterious...Just look at how Prohibition turned out...