The Official Second Amendment / Gun Ban Thread

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^I think some would call that "Utopia", but we wouldn't be able to hear them over the sound of people shooting each other.

Well that's one view. One man's utopia is another's distopia.

The resulting killing spree would probably lower the population somewhat, relieving the pressure on the Social Security Program.

[Larks2242 251]

Well that is quite a twisted way of looking at it....

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

No more than arming a peaceful populace. The NRA and friends are just too overboard.

[LexusInfernus 908]

The resulting killing spree would probably lower the population somewhat, relieving the pressure on the Social Security Program.

Didn't some conservatives already made that link? Saying that liberals shouldn't complain because they would have happily aborted all those 20 children that died if it was 6-7 years ago?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Op Ed piece says gun control in America is now impossible.

Our intrepid reporter for CBC who lives in Washington makes some valid points.

[Meg 368]

Op Ed piece says gun control in America is now impossible.

Our intrepid reporter for CBC who lives in Washington makes some valid points.

Sadly, that is what we have been trying to tell people. As Duke says, it's like herpes. It's not going away. The best you can do is look for ways to manage it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Op Ed piece says gun control in America is now impossible.

Our intrepid reporter for CBC who lives in Washington makes some valid points.

Sadly, that is what we have been trying to tell people. As Duke says, it's like herpes. It's not going away. The best you can do is look for ways to manage it.

Some people have received the message loud and clear. However, the situation is appalling. Everyone is right that guns don't kill people, but they sure make it a lot easier.

Constitutionalists notwithstanding, it is far to late to put the cat back in the bag.

---

{Footnote}

Letting the cat out of the bag, for people who are not into 19th century history, means avoiding a flogging. In a navy ship of those days (1800s), the boatswain (bosun) kept the cat o' nine tails secured in a baize bag. So the watch word was "Don't let the cat out of the bag".

{/Footnote}

[Aflack122791 13]

DO NOT LET THE SECOND AMENDMENT SLIP AWAY FROM YOUR RIGHTS! WHAT WILL COME NEXT WILL HAVE YOU WISHING YOU OWNED A GUN! THE GOVERNMENT ARE YOUR WORST ENEMIES AND HAVE ACCOUNTED FOR THE MOST KILLINGS ON THE PLANET IN THE LAST 200 YEARS. CUBA,MEXICO,KOREA,CHINA,GERMANY, AND MANY MORE HAVE ALL CONFISCATED THEIR PEOPLES GUNS AND GENOCIDE FOLLOWED SOON AFTER ALONG WITH THE HIGHEST CRIME REATES WORLDWIDE. CRIMINALS DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAWS. ONLY LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WHO WILL HAVE NO SELF DEFENSE. CRIMINALS WILL CONTINUE HAVING GUNS AND USING THEM. THE CONSTITUTION WAS WRITTEN AFTER OUR FREEDOM FROM BRITIAN(UNITED NATIONS) FOR A REASON. WHY DO YOU THINK THE U.S. WAS FORMED? THE SAME PEOPLES WE ESCAPED FROM OUR NOW TRYING TO TAKE OUR RIGHTS AWAY AGAIN. READ YOUR HISTORY AN DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING THE MEDIA TELLS YOU. BE A PATRIOTIC AMERICAN AND REALIZE YOU ARE ONE OF THE LAST FREE COUNTRIES ON THE PLANET. FIGHT THE NEW WORLD ORDER AND BE A FREE THINKER! AMERICA LIVES ON. LOVE ALL

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

^ Please turn off caps lock. And take your medicine. There's no conspiracy going on, and there's no way any sort of legislation is going to be passed with our current locked up political system.

[Cockatoo 2,256]

DO NOT LET THE SECOND AMENDMENT SLIP AWAY FROM YOUR RIGHTS! WHAT WILL COME NEXT WILL HAVE YOU WISHING YOU OWNED A GUN! THE GOVERNMENT ARE YOUR WORST ENEMIES AND HAVE ACCOUNTED FOR THE MOST KILLINGS ON THE PLANET IN THE LAST 200 YEARS. CUBA,MEXICO,KOREA,CHINA,GERMANY, AND MANY MORE HAVE ALL CONFISCATED THEIR PEOPLES GUNS AND GENOCIDE FOLLOWED SOON AFTER ALONG WITH THE HIGHEST CRIME REATES WORLDWIDE. CRIMINALS DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAWS. ONLY LAW ABIDING CITIZENS WHO WILL HAVE NO SELF DEFENSE. CRIMINALS WILL CONTINUE HAVING GUNS AND USING THEM. THE CONSTITUTION WAS WRITTEN AFTER OUR FREEDOM FROM BRITIAN(UNITED NATIONS) FOR A REASON. WHY DO YOU THINK THE U.S. WAS FORMED? THE SAME PEOPLES WE ESCAPED FROM OUR NOW TRYING TO TAKE OUR RIGHTS AWAY AGAIN. READ YOUR HISTORY AN DO NOT BELIEVE EVERYTHING THE MEDIA TELLS YOU. BE A PATRIOTIC AMERICAN AND REALIZE YOU ARE ONE OF THE LAST FREE COUNTRIES ON THE PLANET. FIGHT THE NEW WORLD ORDER AND BE A FREE THINKER! AMERICA LIVES ON. LOVE ALL

Obvious troll is obvious. Try to make it a little more subtle next time.

[Duke87 1,070]

While Caps Lock is uncalled for, there are a not small number of Americans that believe what he is basically saying: that they need guns to defend themselves in the event of the government turning against them.

Not that a gun would be much use against a government which has tanks, bombs, and missiles, but there you go.

[AcmeSigns 97]

To correct Alfac122791..

Under Hitler, contrary to popular belief, Germany did not confiscate weapons.

If anything, under the Third Reich, weapons were easier to obtain than elsewhere in Europe.

http://rense.com/general17/hitlersgermany.htm

[Aflack122791 13]

More Subtle! Taking guns away from law abiding citizens will not help with gun violence. Criminals will still have guns. Drugs are illegal? Prostitution is illegal? Rape is illegal? Violence is illegal? Car theft is illegal? identity theft is illegal? ect..... Laws do not stop criminals. Guns in the homes of law abiding citizens protect them from criminals who would burglarize, kidnap, rape, and other unimaginable things to americans if there was not 130,000,000 registered gun owners and many more who are not registered due to awesome states like Colorado, Utah, and many more. Chicago Illinois has had a gun ban for some years now and has the highest homicide rate in the U.S. with over 500 murders by gun this year..... best example. Criminals will still have guns and the innocent will not be able to defend themselves from criminals or a genocidal government. The U.N. has a gun ban and yes you have less gun crimes but the overall violent crime (stabbing, armed robbery, Burglaries, aggravated assault, overall homicides, overall suicides, overall crimes) have skyrocketed hence a gun ban will not stop those who are mentally ill and evil. Just allow those to prevail knowing no one has a gun for protection in their homes.

[Wiimeiser 444]

So they'll sooner go the way of Venezuela and ban violent games than ban powerful weapons...

EDIT:

This is the very definition of hypocrisy. If gun control passes, the word "hypocrisy" should be replaced with "Davkeene"

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Posting in all caps then repeating in all lower case doesn't make it a better post. No sentence structure and just a plain rant spewing from a troll. This has all been said before by the extreme factions.

Gun control is impossible in the US now. As I said earlier, the cat is most thoroughly out of the bag. What has to be done now is to find a way to a more civil society with better controls on the loose nuts carrying cannons.

[Duke87 1,070]

So they'll sooner go the way of Venezuela and ban violent games than ban powerful weapons...

Penny Arcade had commentary on this as well.

Regulation of video games is a stupid idea.

This is the very definition of hypocrisy. If gun control passes, the word "hypocrisy" should be replaced with "Davkeene"

Eh, whatever. It's not a violent game. You just shoot targets. This is no more inappropriate for kids than robots shooting cartoon lases at other robots.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

So they'll sooner go the way of Venezuela and ban violent games than ban powerful weapons...

Penny Arcade had commentary on this as well.

Regulation of video games is a stupid idea.

This is the very definition of hypocrisy. If gun control passes, the word "hypocrisy" should be replaced with "Davkeene"

Eh, whatever. It's not a violent game. You just shoot targets. This is no more inappropriate for kids than robots shooting cartoon lases at other robots.

*Snore*

"Too late! Too late to say you're sorry" - song.

What we really have here is society failing to keep up morally with the advancement of science. It has ever been thus. The science of killing always leads the ethical development of a moral society by at least a decade.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Late breaking news: New York passes gun legislation.

Somehow, I think the proof of this pudding will be in the Supreme Court of the United States. I expect the litigation to start tomorrow from the reaction of the NRA and its cronies.

[LexusInfernus 908]

Yes, but isnt what New York does basically tightening up existing legislation. If so, they have a much stronger case to argue for than when they would introduce entirely new legislation.

[Cobraroll 138]

http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-truth-about-guns-video-games/

Cracked.com has a pretty interesting article on the subject. It suggests that violence in video games is not the problem, but more of a symptom of a culture that glorifies violence and whose media appears to believe the solution to most problems is "brute force" or "killing the bad guys". As the author puts it:

Video games are just a symptom, not a cause. The cause is that basic, nasty little idea: "Heroes hurt bad guys."

I never thought I'd ever say this, but I think the NRA has a few good points. Gun culture can be civilized. It's fully possible to be a society where every third person owns a gun and nobody uses them against each other. The guns themselves only become a problem when they are owned with the intent of using it against another person, should a situation arise. In most other countries with a large gun-owning population, the reason for having guns falls into two categories: Hunting or sports. You use your gun for recreation most of all, either for competition or to shoot wild game. Whereas in America, it seems that most gun owners have guns "for protection". The idea is that in case a "bad guy" appears, you should use a gun to shoot him dead. Home invasions on the rise? Just arm the homeowners, so the invaders can be shot dead upon arrival. Problem solved! It appears to be widely accepted that "The bad guys WILL come and they WILL have guns, so you should have yours ready too!". Not having a gun is compared to not having a fire extinguisher. Had people prepared for fires with the same vigour they prepare for home invasions, the US would be a much safer place.

But relying on guns for home safety is kinda like relying on the extinguisher for fire protection. The focus should be on prevention, not protection. You shouldn't focus all your preparation on the moment your house is afblaze (or you stand face to face with a burglar), but rather give minimalization of risk a few thoughts. Check your house for potential fire hazards. Test your smoke detectors. Find and fix/identify problems with electrical appliances. Check escape routes. Try to make it so that you'll never be cornered by a fire. You should think the same way when it comes to home invasions. Rather than always having a gun ready for the "inevitable" moment there is a guy with a gun inside your house, try to make it so a guy with a gun won't get into your house. Open windows + ladders lying around = bad idea. Doors hidden out of street view tend to be the ones that are broken through, seeing as the burglar can work on the lock in quiet. Bushes along the walls of your house, concealing basement windows... perfect cover for people breaking in through those windows. If you have neighbours, a proper alarm system will be just as scary to the burglar as your 12-gauge would be. Pulling the trigger on a siren produces just as much noise, but less damage to people and property. And when lights begin to go on in the surrounding houses, any burglar with a sense of self-preservation would want to get the hell away as quickly as possible. His desire for taking your stuff and harming your family is considerably less than his desire for not getting caught. Alerting everybody of his presence is a good way to make him drop whatever he has in his hands and run for the door. In the same fashion, there are plenty of examples of people talking their way out of gunpoint. See for instance the last school shooting, in which two people were hurt before the teacher convinced the shooter to put down the weapon.

But no. The gun-toting lobby insists that the best counter to a "bad guy with a gun" is "a gun of your own and plenty of ammo". "You shouldn't be satisfied before the bastard lies there bleeding". After all, he's a "bad guy", and as shown everywhere in media, a healthy dose of violence is the only thing that can stop his bad-guy-ness. If the NRA wants to reduce gun violence without reducing the guns, they should focus a little more on the alternatives to using guns in certain situation. I know they are pretty good at raising awareness of gun safety. Why not use some of their PR resources to work for raising the bar of gun usage as well?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

In the good old days when I was young, I was an armed bank messenger, gun licence, carry permit and all. The instructor was quite emphatic that if you have to pull a gun on someone, don't try to threaten him, just shoot to kill (centre of body). Nothing fancy, just shoot him. This, by the way, was a Toronto Police Services instructor.

I have always believed that there is no point in trying to threaten anyone with the gun. It quite often doesn't work and can get you killed. If you draw on anyone, just shoot him. Period. Questions and answers come later in a life or death situation.

The idea of having a gun at home for protection falls into the category of abject fear and paranoia. If someone breaks into your home, the NRA is quite right. Shoot him.

The idea of a society that feels it has to be armed to the teeth supported by a piece of ancient legalism, has become outmoded. There can be no resisting a well-armed government that has its armed forces on its side. So all this is foolishness where the Constitution of the United States is concerned. Because of the conservatism and recalcitrance of the states in the union, it is unlikely that anything will be done in our lifetimes to disarm the people of the United States.

[Wiimeiser 444]

If they can censor the first amendment(SOPA, ACTA, CISPA, Mega) they can do the same to the second.

[hym 358]

No, not really. The NRA gets very vocal when gun control comes up, and many politicians are scared of pissing off the NRA. They are one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

No, not really. The NRA gets very vocal when gun control comes up, and many politicians are scared of pissing off the NRA. They are one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington.

Meaning, I supposed, one of the richest. Maybe it is time to put a bit in the mouth of the whole lobby horse. It seems to have kicked over the traces. It is not good for the horse to drive the cart.

[hym 358]

Powerful as in number of voters represented, size of the organization, ability to shape policy discussions, and to negatively impact the election chances of politicians that piss it off.

[Meg 368]

it is unlikely that anything will be done in our lifetimes to disarm the people of the United States.

and an attempt to do so will result in another bloody internal war.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

it is unlikely that anything will be done in our lifetimes to disarm the people of the United States.

and an attempt to do so will result in another bloody internal war.

Do you really think it would come to a shooting war? Sounds rather uncivilized to me. The US Civil War killed more people per capita than any other in recent history.

It would be unfortunate, but attacking shibboleths often results in bloodletting.

[Meg 368]

it is unlikely that anything will be done in our lifetimes to disarm the people of the United States.

and an attempt to do so will result in another bloody internal war.

Do you really think it would come to a shooting war?

If the government tried to take people's guns? No doubt in my mind that it would come to a shooting war.

Sounds rather uncivilized to me. The US Civil War killed more people per capita than any other in recent history.

Of course it is uncivilized. The US Civil war was terrible on several levels. and the more I learn and the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Lincoln got it wrong. I believe a more appropriate reaction would have been "don't let the screen door hit you on the way out."

It would have given us a totally different set of problems today. Not saying there would be no problems but we wouldn't be doing the silly stuff we are doing in Congress these days.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

I believe a more appropriate reaction would have been "don't let the screen door hit you on the way out."

I have to admit, I resent that remark if it was still considered that way nowadays and people think we southerners should secede. Not all of us are ignorant, homophobic, racist, freaks that believe the Civil War never ended...

As for Gun bans, gee I didn't know criminals followed the law.

[hym 358]

and the more I learn and the more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Lincoln got it wrong.

Had Lincoln not followed the path he did, discussion of the US might be in an entirely historical sense.

Practically, I think gun control is an example of a larger problem with the federal government. Or perhaps more accurately, what people perceive it should be working on. The US is entirely too large and varied for a single piece of gun control legislation to ever control things effectively. The only way you're going to achieve a happy medium is to leave the issue to the states to figure out for themselves. Each state (in theory, at least) gets the gun control that it wants (provided it respects the Constitution). The federal government steps in concerning issues of interstate transit of weapons, sales, etc.