Automata Problems

[Rickk 16]

As I've been so inspired by Mikeseith, I thought I'd try my hand at creating some myself. However, I've run into some problems I can't seem to figure out right away.

I'm using Mike's tutorial (found here: http://www.props.freeservers.com/part%201.html ) and the FSHTool is giving me headaches.

 

First things first. When I go to open the FSH file that's created, and I try to select the file to always be opened by the FSHTool.exe file, it drops me back out to the program list menu with no way to select the FSHTool. Completely inconvienent.

 

Fortunately, the FSHTool has DOS capability. So I go into a prompt and type in

fshtool f:\rendering\models\sc4cars\golf.fsh (which is correct). It then does this, which looks good:

 

 

==========================================================================
FSHTOOL version 1.2 - © Denis Auroux 2002 - auroux@math.polytechnique.fr
==========================================================================
FSH data (11008 bytes).
Unpacking to directory f:\rendering\models\sc4cars\golf
SHPI 1 objects, tag G315
No global palette.
'10D2' [60] -> '0000.BIN'
Conversion performed successfully.
Press Enter to exit.

 

So obviously I think everything's fine and dandy doing it this way (I don't mind a few extra steps as long as everything works right). Unfortunately, it didn't work right.

 

I check in the folder, expecting to see a BMP file and all I get are another FSH file and a BIN file. WTF? What's a BIN file? I can't seem to open it with anything, I can't rename it and open it, and I can't find a way to convert it into a BMP file (I checked on the internet).

 

Can someone please help me figure out how to get this blasted FSH tool working or if there's a newer version I can download?

[Rickk 16]

Err, blast it. I always post and then find answers myself. Perhaps its the only way I can get through things.

Eitherway, I downloaded v1.22 from an NFS site and ran it under DOS again and it created a BMP file. So, huzzah, problem solved.

 

I'll update this thread incase I run into another problem (which I likely will).

[mikeseith 469]

rickk,
I found a problem with fshtool about a month ago. I had just finally installed service pack 2 for windows XP and every program on my computer worked fine. Then I tried to use fshtool... No dice. I uninstalled service pack 2 and everything was fine again. Go figure. Maybe this will help. If not there is always FISHMan which I don't like as much but it does work.

[ardecila 125]

Nice to finally see another driver on the automata circuit! Mike's more automotive-oriented, and I'm more boat/plane oriented. What kind of automata are you interested in making?

Anyways, there's a reason that I prefer to use FiSHMan for FSHs. It's a bit unintuitive, but once you get used to it, it's pretty quick to whip up an FSH, or extract a JPG from an FSH.

It's not available for download anymore, but if you want it, I could email it to you.

[Rickk 16]

Thanks guys for the support. I think the FSHTool is working fine (albeit annoying to do all that typing), but I've run into a new problem.

I was following Mike's tutorial and all I did was change the color of the car to pink (so it would be noticeable). I then tried to place it in the game.

 

I didn't notice it driving around anywhere it should. Inspired, I decided I would plop down a MySim and make him drive my custom car. It came up in the list (how do I change the name? Is that under exemplars?) and test drove it. Low and behold, it didn't work - he was driving the default blue sedan thing for low wealth individuals and I never did see my car.

 

I'm assuming something went wrong and the game hates my custom car. Any suggestions oh glorious automata modders?

 

Oh, and ardecila, I plan on doing cars and trucks (I'd like to do classic stuff as well as new), but I also want to try mass transit vehicles (mostly buses and trains).

[mikeseith 469]

rickk,
there is a property in the exemplar called item name. put that into your exemplar and that should change the tool tip name.

Now to the real problem. make sure you have changed the material id in the s3d file entry (its the second tab). and make sure you have generated a new instance for the s3d entry and the exemplar entry. Also in the exemplar in the model resource key property make sure you list the new instance of your s3d file entry.

[ardecila 125]

Well, I use a property called Automata Display Name in all my exemplars. I believe it only affects MySim vehicles.

[Rickk 16]

So I'm trying to redo the tutorial and now Datgen won't let me export the FSH file. What's up with that?

I'm very dissapointed, it seems like I'm being road-blocked by all these programs.

[Rickk 16]

Update:

I deleted all the files and restarted the tutorial one more time. I, having had a little bit of practice by now, was ultimately sucessful (and very happy). I believe the problem that happened last time is that I didn't change one of the new variables in the dat file. Eitherway, I was able to drive around a hiddeous brown hatch back that I added some flames and a racing stripe to. Huzzah!

 

Now, onto what I know how to do best, modeling a new model.

I use 3ds Max and it saves in 3ds format, so I can bypass the need for using 3rd-party programs for now. What I'm curious is how I apply the textures to the model file. I'm guessing, based on the textures I've seen with Mike's cars that I use a UV Unwrap and set the points based on the bitmap. Does that sound like a plan to anyone else?

 

And secondly, how do I change the model from a default sc4 one to my custom one? Is that done in iLive or Datgen?

 

Oh, and I was unsucessful at changing the UDI exemplar name - where is it specifically located? I wasn't able to find it.

Oh, and one last thing, how do I change the sound of the car? I'm going to try and model a 2005 Ford GT and I want to give it one of the sport car sounds.

[Rickk 16]

Okay, here's what I have so far:

 

And here's the map I'm using - does it look like it will work?

 

[ardecila 125]

Rick - Yes, the skinning interface is rather like the UVW Unwrap, albeit without rotate or scale tools.

I use iLive Reader to import my 3ds models, which preserves the UV data. That way, I have access to the much-more powerful UV tools in Max.

As for the sounds - technically, it should be possible to change them. In reality, however, it's much more difficult. The reason why is because, while the sounds themselves are stored in editable XA files (which are like WAVs), they are linked to automata through an ABK file. They are referred to as AB files in the Reader.

No one has yet deciphered these ABK files yet, so we can't really do anything in terms of automata sounds. Fortunately, the game has a rudimentary set of AB sound libraries that aproximate mose types of vehicles.

One thing, though - I've never tried modding it, but the property SFX: Occupant Instance refers directly to an XA sound file from the exemplar. With this, you could probably change the baseline rumble of the engine.

[Rickk 16]

Oh, I mispoke - I just wanted to change which sound this car would use. I don't mind sticking with the ingame sounds.

I'm thinking one of the truck sounds would be good for this car.

is there a list somewhere of what I need to type in to change the sound?

 

I will have to try the importing feature in iLive now. I'm sensing this could get really tricky.

[mikeseith 469]

Rickk,
I see real progress there. Importing the model into the ilive reader is easy. Just make sure the model is the right size. I never have changed the sounds in my cars so I can't help there.

to change the in game name of the car remove the user visible name key property in the exemplar and replace it with the item name property. download and open one of my newer automata to see how it works.

[Rickk 16]

 

Okay, I've imported the file into iLive and it seems everything went well. Unfortuantely I've left my SimCity discs at a friends house (as it wont run on either of my computers), and his wife came home from the military so I haven't been able to get ahold of him to grab my discs.

 

So I'm making the dat file available right here for someone to tell me if it works or not:

http://www.alturasforums.com/stuff/FordGTRed2.dat

 

Think someone could see if this works or not yet before I start working on color variations and put it up on STEX?

[mikeseith 469]

i put it in and it did some strange things to my UDI menu and then it crashed to the desktop. i'll open up the hood in ilive and see if i can make some adjustments.

[mikeseith 469]

ok, i think i know what went wrong. there is a propblem with those little group boxes in the s3d entry of the dat file. i beat my head against this wall for quite some time until i realized that you can only have 1 group in a new s3d model. you can't upload a new 3ds model into a s3d entry with 3 groups like an automoble. So, what did i do? all of my automata are originally planters from the game (only 1 group). that is the only work around 1 could figure out.


so. what i did is i opened up your dat file and routed around. i exported your model from your original dat into one of mine. then deleted my fsh file and pasted yours. then i made the wealth level 3 instead of level 4 (2 equals level 3 in the exemplar). then i drove the car around in the game (very nice work). then i made a new UDI menu icon

here is the finished product ford gt

the only thing i saw that may need fixing is that the car seemed just a little large compared to the rest of the traffic. drive around in the game and you might notice too. other than that, this thing is perfect. great work.

[Rickk 16]

Mike, thank you! I just tried it myself and crashed my game - but I didn't know what's wrong.

So, what I'm thinking I will do is use your dats as a template. Thanks for fixing the wealth, too.

I will try and get some new textures for it ready tonight. I'd like to release this thing to the STEX asap.

 

Mike, thank you thank you thank you. Did it sound good, btw?

It's also a fairly large car in real life. Very wide, very flat. I'm just hoping I didn't make it too wide.

[mikeseith 469]

hehe, its late over where i am and i played without sound so as to not wake the family. by the way, i don't think i copied and pasted your original sound file. so you might want to do that.

your welcome for the help. the main reason i started making these automata was to get some variety in the game, so the more people making automata the better.

i'll be looking on the stex for the ford gts.

[ardecila 125]

I've made several automata with multiple groups. Otherwise, I'd have horrible-looking textures (since the ships are so large). They don't crash the game...

Well, actually, they do, but only when used in combination, and that's an LUA problem...

To change the sound, you must change the property Sound Bank ID. Go into Reader and load SimCity_1.dat, then use the Vehicule category of the Exemplar Analyzer to find the exemplar of the desired automata. Copy it's Sound Bank ID and paste it back into the Sound Bank ID of the new automata.

BTW - I made a spreadsheet that contains technical info on all the in-game UDI-able automata. Do either of you want a copy?

[MayorBean 8]

Maybe this is of interest, though it also might be a random problem:

When I did my bus model, I started with a copy of a plane billboard which has only one group(first try was to add all vertices and dependand values in the reader by hand *uhm*).

Well, soon I installed a demo version of 3dsmax for easier modelling and skinning.

My bus model is build up of 7 'planes': top, bottom, left, right, front, back, shadow. When I first imported the 3ds file into the reader, the reader correctly added a new group per plane. But the values seemed to be messed up. Especially the group assignment table (reference to the vertex-, index-, prim- and mat-block) contained 65535 (max Integer) or negative values very often so I guess an overflow problem in the reader's import routine.
After manually fixing that (the values, not the routine *lol*), I was able to add/move/delete vertices in 3dsmax and reimport the modified model without any problems. As far as I don't add/delete another plane.

~bean~

BTW, ardeclia: if you have a hint on a pivot point tutorial, please PM me. I seem to need such knowledge for articulated busses (yes, they work so far 'somehow'). Thanks in advance!

[Rickk 16]

Well, I don't know how well I'm going to be a modder. My friend's computer froze when I tried to run the game for too long, my computer still refuses to work with SC4 (and no one wants to help me around here with the problem) and my laptop crashes to the desktop anytime UDI vehicles are used (it also doesn't seem to recognize plugins).

 

I still have a chance with my parent's computer, but that will require only being able to use it when I'm over there and I have to install the game. My wife says it will be at least a few more months before we're able to afford a new computer, too.

 

Why is it that I can play any other game besides the one I want to play? It's rediculous.

[Rickk 16]

Okay, new idea.

If someone would like to help me out doing custom cars, that would be great. What I need is someone I can send my files to and they take screen shots of all the files (and verify the mod works). Ta-da. Then I'll upload them to the STEX.

 

I'm going to try one more time with a custom PNG file in the DAT. I think I did everything right, but it gave me some warning about the 5 not working in the index or something. If it does, I'll start working on the other colors for this car and get it on the STEX!

 

 

[ardecila 125]

I'd be happy to test them for you, Rickk.

I'd appreciate it if you would PM me with your IM screenname (AIM or MSN) so we could talk quickly if needed.

[Rickk 16]

ardecila, you can get ahold of me on AIM at RickPierce5 or SimMasterRick (though that's usually for my admin stuff for Sims BBS, but it works) and on ICQ at 135894911.

I tested the car today at my parents and it worked wonderful. Except I want to change the menu icon. I tried replacing the PNG in iLive, but for some reason it didn't work. I generated new numbers and everything. There must be something there I'm missing or doing wrong.

 

I did change the sound to the muscle car, and it sounded great.

Now I just need to make the different colors and I'll be ready to post this on the STEX.

 

Any requests for my next vehicle to do? I was thinking of a Mini Cooper or Chevy Tahoe. Then I'd like to get onto some cars I really like; namely anything by Mazda.

[Rickk 16]

ARGH!H!H!

 

So I got the color changed, but now I have a new problem. I had my red one and it works perfect (I'm real happy), and today I tried making a yellow one. When i was done, I added the yellow dat to the plugins folder and I went into the game. Low-and-behold, both are now the Yellow ones and the red no longer appears! What the heck!?

 

Please, oh please, automata gods, help me!

 

Here's what I did:

I opened Datgen and got the Red's FSH file. I then covereted this using FSHTool and saved over the original 0000.bmp with Yellow's. I packaged the FSH file back up and headed over to iLive Reader. There must be a step I'm missing in iLive Reader, but because Mike's website seems to be dead, i can't review the tutorial.

 

Here's what I did:

-I opened up Red's dat file.

-I removed Red's FSH file and then added Yellow's FSH file.

-I generated a new Instance for Yellow's FSH file.

-I opened up the S3D file and, under the Mats tab, changed the Material ID number to match the FSH Instance.

-I then generated a new Instance for the S3D file.

-I opened up the Exemplar file and, under Model Resource Key, changed the last bit of numbers (after the 0x, of course) to match the S3D file's Instance.

-I made other nessicary changes, such as the name.

-I saved the DAT.

 

Now what did I miss?

[mikeseith 469]

I'm sorry about my site...I'm using frontpage now and it ate the tutorial. Darn program goes into the site when you upload your new work and if it doesn't recognize something, it's gone. Ah well, I'll have to put a new tutorial on my to do list.

Anyway. Make sure you didn't accidentally save the yellow over the red...it could happen. Open up the red's .dat and make sure its still red.

Make sure the fsh group # is right 0x1abe787d

[Rickk 16]

It's all there - I dunno what the problem is.

Would you like me to attach the two files?

[Rickk 16]

Anyone? Little help please?

[Tropod 144]

EDIT: no longer needed.

[Rickk 16]

I've attached the zip file I sent to Tropod here aswell, in case anyone else wants to take a look at it.

The Red one works fine if installed all by itself. The Yellow one works fine if installed all by itself, too. But if Red and Yellow are in the plugins folder, it generates two instances of Yellow.

 

How very strange.