Just Because It's Different...

[DavidBeebe 0]

Bookworm: thanks.

[Salbador 0]

A ferrari with a chainsaw engine is still a ferrari right ? just cos its differant , A chicken burger is chateau briand right ,but differant , the is differant for the better and differant for the worse. Maybe the title should of been just cos its not sim city ..

[Pixelrage 34]

Originally posted by: Bookworm We should be happy that there is going to BE an SC5, and we should be happy that Tilted Mill seems to be working so hard to make it a good game.

quote>

I beg to differ, that's kind of a sheepish viewpoint. Of course, everyone's allowed to think whatever they want. However, there's no way in hell some people (including myself) are ever going to give games like this, or anything else that sells out, any credit whatsoever.

This reminds me of a screenshot of a new Transformers cartoon that's coming out. You'd almost think that EA was behind it, to cash in on the name

[Garek Maxwell 1]

Originally posted by: megalopolitan This is the attitude that EA uses to justify killing games. BTW, SCS will never be SC5.quote>

With Sim City fans like this, I'd almost hope EA kills the franchise. Most of those here seem to be acting like zealots when it comes to the franchise...

Originally posted by: Bookworm Stating our unhappiness is, but railing against the game and everything about it, railing against Tilted Mill and EA, and refusing to accept it as a SimCity game or even a game at all is not what we should be doing.quote>

And it's actions like what is described above that make me wonder if the Sim City series should be killed. It seems as though the fans are too rabid and need to be put out of their misery before they start drinking "special koolaid" and donating all their possessions to EA for "just a little more, just an expansion, man! You know I'm good for it!"

[Bookworm 1]

@pixelrange: It's my opinion, you're welcome to yours.

@Garek Maxwell: Yeah, maybe they ought to just get rid of it. We're bound to hate any changes they make anyway

Seriously though, if EA announced they were killing the SC franchise, I think a lot more people would be a lot more upset.

[pnorrell 4]

I really don't see the need to lobby, either for or against, a game that hasn't been released yet. That is, unless you're EA/Tilted Mill, in which case you may feel the need to do some damage control given the fan reaction.

While I think that's pretty much what TM's "engagement" with the SC4 community has been about so far - damage control, as opposed to genuine openness or interest, given the late stage in the game's development of this interaction - I don't necessarily think winning over this group here is a big priority for them. Alienating the core fan base "seems" to have been a conscious decision and one even alluded to by Will Wright in that famous foreshadowing of the next SC he gave months ago. It appears to be a decision to give up one fan base, loyal but evidently too small, in the hopes of attracting a new and wider fan base for a different style of game.

In any case, please spare us the campaign to "give SCS a chance," bookworm, and everyone else save your condemnations until you actually have something to condemn. I honestly haven't heard any new opinion or insight from anyone on this topic since that first tumultuous day of the announcement.

[Gridlock 9]

Simplified Gamplay , removal of many items,power/zones/water

 Taking care of the needs of the sims from localised shops with walkers,

ie , man in black or market ladies , every sim in your city needs to be cared for you will

interact with every sim,this alone seriously limts the size of villages that house skyscrapers with no one working at them exept the market lady . No sign of decent mass transport , but you wont need it as you cant build in mass anyway .Clowns with painted faces throwing pies ,men in black chasing the clowns , through rows of gingerbread houses , wow when you say differant your not joking ,but it will also be very repetative too if you have 12,000 in a city ,and 12 types of sim that may be a 1000 of each or 5000 of 1 .

[Cleaner475 150]

Simplified Gamplay , removal of many items,power/zones/waterquote>

thats not simplified gameplay that means there isn't gameplay - wheres the fun - most of us just wanted asn ipmroved SC4 maybe with a 3d view, new onig tools more tranportation and more buidling freedom but this isn't SC its City Life and that is my opinion.

Bookworm will say something different.....

[6underground 11]

@6underground: What we expected the game to be like has nothing to do with what it would have or will be like. I know that a lot of people are saying "SCS is SC5! Nooo! They're destroying SimCity!", but it may not even be SC5, as I've been saying, it's probably only a spinoff. But even if it's not, we are not the CEO of EA. We - as much as we wish we did, myself included - don't have the right to say that SCS - or any game for that matter - should be bashed and flamed, and then finally canned just because it isn't what we wanted in a game.quote>

What we expected the game to be like has nothing to do with what it would have or will be like.quote>

I beg to differ, dear chum. Many SC fans expected the fundamental aspects of simcity to remain in SC5, and were expecting it. No idea what I mean? Since Simcity Original users had the ability to place zones, you cannot do this in SC: S. It's been a fundamental aspect of the franchise since the late 80's (and this is only one game fundamental which has been thrown out the window, in pursuit of a "new vision" for simcity.)For many it's a step back for the franchise, because some game fundamentals have been scrapped altogether and a focus has shifted towards the citizenry. 'm not justifying bashing the game or flaming individuals but I do have the right to say that a game centred around Sims and their lives (and city building as a parenthesis) is not for me, because I don't enjoy games similar to that.

It's entirely a matter of personal likes and dislikes, what floats your boat and what doesn't.

BTW, before you try and lead the bandwagon of folks thinking they are "correct" and that people slamming the game are far to emotional. Perhaps, if you have5 seconds, view the SC: S video on youtube where the presenter described SC: S as the NEXT instalment of the franchise and NOT a spinoff.

[Bookworm 1]

Dear chum? Very formal

What you are saying is true, but that isn't the point I was trying to get accross. I was trying to state that we don't have control over what they decide to do, and that our expectations don't have to be fufilled - they may lose a lot of fans if they don't fufill them, but they aren't being forced to include zoning or growable lots. I agree that it is a personal matter of likes and dislikes, and it's not disliking the game I'm against - it's the attitude and the way people are stating this dislike. As you obviously know, judging by the maturity of your posts, there are better ways to state like and dislike.

Finally, let me say that although the presenter may have introduced SCS that way during that presentation, that dosen't mean it won't change in the next 4 months, or after the game's release.

[6underground 11]

Dear chum? Very formal

What you are saying is true, but that isn't the point I was trying to get accross. I was trying to state that we don't have control over what they decide to do, and that our expectations don't have to be fufilled - they may lose a lot of fans if they don't fufill them, but they aren't being forced to include zoning or growable lots. I agree that it is a personal matter of likes and dislikes, and it's not disliking the game I'm against - it's the attitude and the way people are stating this dislike. As you obviously know, judging by the maturity of your posts, there are better ways to state like and dislike.quote>

True, some people have responded in a disgusting way, that much is certain. The problem in your latter end of the comment is that, it's far to long in the process to make massive changed the game (based solely on the release date stated on GFW website). It's simply not possible to cram the stuff EA removed back into the game in that period of time (and to be honest I don't think they would).

My "psychic" opinion about the future (tying to be as objective as possible):

SC: S will be popular with "Sims" fans but won't attract many fans of the simcity fanbase. In terms of marketing, I suspect that the SC fanbase wasn't on their proverbial radar as they expected it to be popular with SC fans. To put it this way, If you have a lemonade stall and you want to sell as much lemonade as possible, you try and sell it to the "apathetic" share of the market, not the "guaranteed" lemondare drinkers.

The irony is that, as I suspect, metaphorically the lemonade drinkers don't like this new diet lemonade. An eventuality EA probably never considered.

So yes, Sims fans and the general gamers may/will pick it up if they liked the Sims stuff BUT, it won't really have the longevity that SC4 had based solely on the range of moddbility available in TM's previous games in comparison to SC4.

[purpledaddy 6]

Well I'm a Sims fan; well okay I might not be representative b/c I really do like both games... but regardless even if I leaned toward one I still don't know if SCS would apppeal to me yet, b/c I still don't know enough about it yet!

[6underground 11]

Well I'm a Sims fan; well okay I might not be representative b/c I really do like both games... but regardless even if I leaned toward one I still don't know if SCS would apppeal to me yet, b/c I still don't know enough about it yet!quote>

Well either you haven't read the official statements, watched the videos or seen the screenshots or you really are very indecisive. It's not like NOTHING has been released about the game, there has been plenty of information made about the game, now if you cannot infer from the plethora of details already made about the game, then I am truely sorry for you, just don't slam those of us who have seen most if not all previews/screenshots/videos/articles and know that; for them the game doesn't float their boat.

[vgcpapa 5]

  From simcity.com

Choose from more than 350 unique buildings which can be combined, connected and re-arranged in almost limitless combinations.quote>

 

Disregarding the "choosing from 350..." this seems like a very interesting feature. That is if I am interpreting it correctly. I am optimistically wishing that this means being able to stack buildings on top of each other, or make them W2W. If you could stack buildings on top of each other, I believe it would be the best feature in the game and could bring a feature of realism that was missing in Simcity4: mixed use zoning, placing. Apartments on top of businesses and mixed use buildings was definitely one feature missing from previous simcities. And if they mean what they truly are saying, then atleast they will make a worthy progression in one aspect of simcity. It's just too bad so much else was lost.

However given that the gameplay videos do not stress this idea, I have a feeling that the statement is misleading. I want to believe that they mean mixed use buildings and combining buildings in almost limitless combinations. But I believe that they are describing this in the citywide context, meaning you can plop any building you want [after it is unlocked] into your city mixing and arranging the types of buildings to affect the social environment. If this is what you mean EA and not mixed use, well then congradulations on misleading for the third time  on this new game...

1. The first time being when you said a new simcity was in the pipeline. But somehow you've managed to take the pipeline out of simcity.

2. And the second time is just by naming this game Simcity.

[Ntq€310 1]

Bookworm, ill be a little more clear, there's no GOOD defence for the game, remember i said good, that means there are defences for the game, but none of them supply a good arguement, many of your defences like we should be happy there is another simcity, and dont judge a book by the cover, stink honestly, i think i can speak for all of us, that we were happy when we heard about the game, but now that we know more about the game, what is their to be happy about, there putting a scam with the name simcity, and societies on it, and by what ive seen, i would of wanted to die peacefully, befor going out like this

[Mr. Flibble 134]

Originally posted by: 6underground

The irony is that, as I suspect, metaphorically the lemonade drinkers don't like this new diet lemonade. An eventuality EA probably never considered.quote>

That is a brilliant analogy I hadn't considered before...this really is the New Coke (or Crystal Pepsi if you're not as old as I am to remember "New Coke") of the SimCity franchise.

[purpledaddy 6]

Originally posted by: 6underground 

Originally posted by: 6underground My "psychic" opinion about the future (tying to be as objective as possible):

SC: S will be popular with "Sims" fans but won't attract many fans of the simcity fanbase. In terms of marketing, I suspect that the SC fanbase wasn't on their proverbial radar as they expected it to be popular with SC fans. To put it this way, If you have a lemonade stall and you want to sell as much lemonade as possible, you try and sell it to the "apathetic" share of the market, not the "guaranteed" lemondare drinkers.

The irony is that, as I suspect, metaphorically the lemonade drinkers don't like this new diet lemonade. An eventuality EA probably never considered.

So yes, Sims fans and the general gamers may/will pick it up if they liked the Sims stuff BUT, it won't really have the longevity that SC4 had based solely on the range of moddbility available in TM's previous games in comparison to SC4. quote>

Originally posted by: purpledaddy    Well I'm a Sims fan; well okay I might not be representative b/c I really do like both games... but regardless even if I leaned toward one I still don't know if SCS would apppeal to me yet, b/c I still don't know enough about it yet!quote>

Well either you haven't read the official statements, watched the videos or seen the screenshots or you really are very indecisive. It's not like NOTHING has been released about the game, there has been plenty of information made about the game, now if you cannot infer from the plethora of details already made about the game, then I am truely sorry for you, just don't slam those of us who have seen most if not all previews/screenshots/videos/articles and know that; for them the game doesn't float their boat.quote>

 

Well, I'm not sure exactly how my comments were exactly interpreted as a slam on those who don't like the game.  And I guess you can feel sorry for those of us who reserve judgement until it's actually out (there are greater things to feel sorry for me for! ).  But I'm not seeing the evidence that the new yet to be released version was meant to strictly be a ploy to gain The Sims fans.  If so they would be marketing out to their fansites and making all kinds of comparisons and they're not.  So far, Sims fans kind of know about it but otherwise could care less. 

[Bookworm 1]

@6underground: You're probably right; the more hardcore SC fans (like the ones I think this site represents) probably weren't heavy on EA's mind when they made the changes - but that's what being an evil corporation is about. It may not have the longevity of SC4, but again, that longevity is contained primarily here with us at ST, and at other SC4 sites. Outside of our limited reach (not that 170,000 users is limited, but still small considering the millions of games EA sells) it is very much losing ground to other games.

@Ntq$310: That is your opinion. However, I think there are plenty of defeneses for this game, which is why I posted this thread. And as far as don't judge a book by its cover, tell me, if people said that this new 'computer' idea sounded rediculous, stupid, and expensive back when the first computers were being developed, only on the fact that they took up space, would we be here now?

@seanivs: Pardon me if I'm wrong, but didn't people think that New Coke was going to be a good thing before they tried it? And then, when they did try it, they only didn't like it because they wanted the original coke back.

Edited

[schm0 27]

Can't we all just get along?

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

*sound of nail being impacted on head*  How big and complex does anyone really want this game to get? How many plugins are out here, how much memory is consumed by their sum?  Look at all the bugs/glitches/dependencies involved in this game now, how much worse would we like to make these issues? No one can unravel all the software conflicts that exist now! I for one would prefer a streamlined or more comprehensively upgraded version of 4, one that doesn't crash at the slightest hint of conflict between mods. From what I've heard of 5, it sounds ok, certainly better than, say, Rise of Nations. I recently discovered I had 1200 items in my plugin folders; how much is too much?  If SC5 cured cancer, there would be those who complained that it won't regrow amputated limbs.

[Lightning War 1]

It's about time someone started using their brain and started thinking! Excellent job Bookworm! I am behind SCS 100% despite how much I loved the original format for the Simcity Series.

You fans need to calm down and give the game a chance!

[crybanshee 0]

I always thought the social aspect was missing on SimCity. Yes, it is a CB, but Cities also have a life and a personality; what I think they should do is add the "Societies" to SimCity, to make it more realistic. Of course that for this to be done, there must be a "game cleaneage", both in SimCity4 and Socities. I'll give you some examples:

SimCity 4:

- Godzillas

- Robots

- UFOs

- Those news that don't have development

- "Dr. Voo's Secret Base"

- Obligation for MAYOR to call the firehouse... They just don't do that :S

SimCity Societies:

- Gingerbread houses

- Candycanes substituting outside lights

- Clouds dancing around

- (Not sure if this is true, but anyways...) The representational aspect of it: 1 Skyscraper represents 4 of them (I think) and other aspects like this...

- Cryogenic or whatever they're called prisions

Exclude this and it will be the most realistic CityBuilder ever some of the disasters don't need to be erased, they are kinda fun :$ but if you want really real, eliminate them...

Another thing... Get inspired in "Myth"'s graphic, those are really great. Also another reference would be GTA IV, for what I've seen already that is really really great.

Anyway, I do think the game has a potental to be a best-seller if the two aspects are merged. No SimCity principles ended, which gives the fans what they really want and goes to get some Sims fans. Would be a great fusion.

Here goes my opinion,

Crybanshee (Cry of the banshee, Edgar Allan poe)

[dabadon5 295]

here is my thought

1 SCS stinks

2. SC4 is hard and dumb

3 SC3 unlimited was the best

4. SC as we know it is dead

5. EA sucks. they do "challange everything" by making it difficult and stupid

6 my gf broke up with me

7. most peoples cities arent realistic anyways. accoding to all the Cj's i have seen

8. GTA 4 is coming out in October have Fun with that !

[Ntq€310 1]

@Bookworm:

@Ntq$310: That is your opinion. However, I think there are plenty of defeneses for this game, which is why I posted this thread. And as far as don't judge a book by its cover, tell me, if people said that this new 'computer' idea sounded rediculous, stupid, and expensive back when the first computers were being developed, only on the fact that they took up space, would we be here now? 

well were not talking about a computers are we, please remember this is a old game, it  came out in 1989,  this game has many diffrent versions, simcity 2000,simcity 3000,simcity 4,and then the disaster that will be simcity societies, besides put the computer in scs situation, they were dumbing down the computer, taking away the new technology, i would think bill gates would be outraged, like we are now, and there are defences for the game, they just all suck!

also just because it has the name simcity dosent mean i have to keep myself inline about it, like it, hate it, or do anything about the game, because all i know this dose not deserve to be called simcity,  also if this is a spin-off i dont care about it, and just to say the game dosent look that bad, but it's not the simcity i wanted, or possibley 100,000's of thousands of other simcity fans wanted eathier, and dont we have a right to bash the game, it's not like anything good, or bad will come out of it, besides a thread closing, and i agree with every singal word KCookies said, the simcity all of us came to know, and loved will die, because they put too much social crap, in a city building game, our simcity. and to everyone out there you can love it, hate, wait to see it, but this game we know as scs dose not deserve to be called simcity. and thats final

[Robstersfive 0]

There is a gilma of hope, in the 9min video they said that they would go back to the drawing board and the basics of what simcity is if this does badly...

I think they know it could be a flop or do okish at best...Sim fans might give it a go but probably not...simcity fans seem to think they'll def won't get it..maybe a few who are like me

as for me im open minded to new ideas and games so i will get it and give it a go

also is this true about Will Wright and that he really doesn't care about simcity anymore? because that upsets me more...Thats why i think we should support titled Mill as there is always simcity 6 to go back to what we want?

Do people really think this game will be the death of simcity?  I get the feeling if this does badly we will get simcity we want after all, However if it does well then they will probably continue with more sequels to it but just down this route of gameplay? but i think its only going to do adverage i doubt there going to do amazing on sales

be interesting what reviews are going to say though

any chance maxis will ever return to simcity? be funny if spores does badly now

[Ondes 0]

There is a ton of controversy regarding SCS and I have an opinion as well. 
We are losing what SimCity was, for sure, to quote wikipedia "Societies will be a 'social engineering simulator' rather than a city-building simulator. " I completely think that by having TM do it, a company who has never done this game, we are going to take several steps back in progress. To me, the image I saw doesn't make a difference at all. Sure, I want decent graphics with another SC but what bugs me is losing the city building simulator part. That is what SimCity was. I don't consider this a sequel, because they are changing gameplay entirely. Perhaps, though, things will brighten up. They MAY heed our opinions, heck they should, they even mentioned that the hardcore games are the lifeblood of the gaming industry. If the game flops, and is really focused solely on the society part, I hope that sales become low and EA realizes their mistake. I would rather wait however many years for Maxis to do it than TM, not saying TM is a bad devlopper, just that they haven't made SimCity before.

[redarc27 0]

I think EA could very easily resolve this whole Sim City issue by making it clear that they are totally committed to developing the original Sim City gameplay concept (in other words to continue funding the production of similar games to SimCity 4, SimCity 3000, etc.) and that SC:S is simply a new branch of an evolving franchise.

[Ntq€310 1]

who knows this could turn out like coke, along time ago coke came out with a new recipe, and when they sold it it floped, later they brought back the old coke and sales where better than before, this could be simcity, if this flops, and the true simcity 5 comes out than it could do the samething, ea is hungry for money, and we dont know exactly how they plan to get the money

[Robstersfive 0]

no money = no games but bad games also = no money and a loss of money and reputation so I doubt EA are really doing that and not that bad as everyone says. I seen some great new screenies and new previews come out this week on the web and i believe this is the right direction for simcity. It even has the sc3000 news ticker back yay

Spores looks amazing, the new need for speed looks amazing, and simcity looking more fun than sc4 and looks a return to classic fun of simcity! it needs a change!

The energies is only part of it, it is still a city builder. A lot of the previews who thought it would be bad think it looks very good from the E3 presentations and i think this is a good sign. We should all calm down and not judge things before they are complete!!!!

Titled Mill have said they are still working on the disaters and that game includes subways and bus tops etc so sure there is far more to come between now and xmas