Marina Project

[tiemanj 5]

One of the remaining weak spots of SC4 is the lack any good lower density waterfronts such as private docks & sea walls and smaller marinas that contain a few fishing boats and a bait shop, so I want to build some and make a set.  My first dock (real quick concept design and uses some fishing boats from the game and some of the Japaneese BATs):


This picture is just a concept drawn up in the lot editor.  The dock is a custom model.  I just used textures to show about how the lot would be aranged (dock starting on land, going out over some shallow water where some small boats would be parked)

Problem is I need help with the lot design.  I don't know how to get a lot to look right in the game.  Specifically how to make:
retaining walls (similar to PEGs boardwalk set)
how to ensure the dock starts on land, ends in water, and that the dock & boats stay above water.
how to make sure I get the "marina effect" that forces the game to generate boat automania throughout the city once these docks are in place.

Any one who can help by pointing me in the right direction, helping discibe some of these things, or if anyone wants to help model / create lots, this is the place to speak up.

Thanks in advance.

[tiemanj 5]

One of the remaining weak spots of SC4 is the lack any good lower density waterfronts such as private docks & sea walls and smaller marinas that contain a few fishing boats and a bait shop, so I want to build some and make a set.  My first dock (real quick concept design and uses some fishing boats from the game and some of the Japaneese BATs):


This picture is just a concept drawn up in the lot editor.  The dock is a custom model.  I just used textures to show about how the lot would be aranged (dock starting on land, going out over some shallow water where some small boats would be parked)

Problem is I need help with the lot design.  I don't know how to get a lot to look right in the game.  Specifically how to make:
retaining walls (similar to PEGs boardwalk set)
how to ensure the dock starts on land, ends in water, and that the dock & boats stay above water.
how to make sure I get the "marina effect" that forces the game to generate boat automania throughout the city once these docks are in place.

Any one who can help by pointing me in the right direction, helping discibe some of these things, or if anyone wants to help model / create lots, this is the place to speak up.

Thanks in advance.

[Swamper77 90]

To have watercraft appear once your lot is placed, use the following effects:

- Effect_Large_Recreational

- Effect_Small_Recreational

For the hang glider that the default marina creates:

- Effect_Hangglider_1DEB1000

For the parked Marina boats like the game's marina:

- Tag1x1x3_Marinafront# (# = 1-

These will stay at the surface of the water level, regardless of the lot's placement.

For the UDI Spawnpoint:

- Tag1x1x3_MarinaUDISpawn_2CAE

PEG's waterfront boardwalks are done with custom lot foundations that were created with GMAX/BAT. The LODs of the foundations must be skin-tight (very close to the model) if they are to be used in water.

-Swamper77

[Swamper77 90]

To have watercraft appear once your lot is placed, use the following effects:

- Effect_Large_Recreational

- Effect_Small_Recreational

For the hang glider that the default marina creates:

- Effect_Hangglider_1DEB1000

For the parked Marina boats like the game's marina:

- Tag1x1x3_Marinafront# (# = 1-

These will stay at the surface of the water level, regardless of the lot's placement.

For the UDI Spawnpoint:

- Tag1x1x3_MarinaUDISpawn_2CAE

PEG's waterfront boardwalks are done with custom lot foundations that were created with GMAX/BAT. The LODs of the foundations must be skin-tight (very close to the model) if they are to be used in water.

-Swamper77

[tiemanj 5]

Thanks for the help.  I made a community pier as a first test.  I have to align the props better, but otherwise the lot turned out ok.

Only problem I'm having so far is the pilons seem to cut them selves off when viewing from different angles.  Notice the pilons to the left of the pier look shorter then the ones on the right.  They are the same size in the BAT.  Any thoughts on that would be appriciated.  Otherwise I'm going to start making several docks and piers.  Then I'll have to tackle the sea wall issue.

[Swamper77 90]

I'd suggest you check your LODs. The images applied to the model appear to be upside-down for some reason.

-Swamper77

[tiemanj 5]

Now that you mention it, it does look a little weird.  Thanks.  Also I am noticing a few problems getting them into the game:

Notice how the left and the righ dock both have foundations, and that the sailboat on the left side dock appears to be sitting on the bottom.  How can I fix this?

[JayStimson 211]

The foundation part is easy to fix.

https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=59697

The elevation of the boat ... hmmm ... not so sure. Simgoober had a release of the games boat props organized into 3 groups (shallow, medium, deep) based on water depth. I think it's something set in concrete with respect to the individual game props but I'm probably wrong. Many things were once said to be impossible but someone managed to solve the problem. Not sure that this one's been solved yet though.

BTW, how did you get your pier to extend out into the water without the water bug ? Is it an overhanging prop or a building ? I'm working on my own marina (restarting an old project) and I'm resorting to using a foundation for the pier rather than a prop or a building. Far as I can tell, this is how Maxis does it with their marina and the ferries. Unfortunating, I oriented the foundation 180 degrees out so I have to re-render tomorrow. If it works (fingers crossed) I'll post the results in my thread.

https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=37&threadid=75425

[Swamper77 90]

Tiemanj,

You can move the height of the prop in the Lot Editor using the CRTL key in combination with the up and down arrow keys. In deeper water, the boat will appear under the water.

There isn't a way to tell a prop to stay at the water level regardless of the lot's placement. Using one of  the various "Marina" props that listed earlier, the game will automatically spawn boats at that location. However, it chooses the boats at random and they get replaced with others over time.

Another option is to model a sailboat in GMAX/BAT in the same scene as the dock. Then the boat will always be level with the water and the dock. The only downside is that the boat will be a static object, like the dock.

-Swamper77

[tiemanj 5]

Jay - thanks for the link.  The docks themselves are just buildings.  I modeled them about .7 m above the xy plane with small posts that go slightly below the plane.  I placed the building on a lot, add a "place this square on water" thing.  Then in the SC4 Tool, set all the texture IDs to 0x0, and it worked.  By the way, I saw your marina and it looked good.  I hope your new render will work for you.

swamper - thanks again.  I'll try experimenting with moving the boat up, but I was hoping this would be a more general lot - plop it down and some boat will show up regardless of placement.  Oh well.  We'll see what I can get.

[Mr_smith2006 0]

great work you have going there are you gonna release them on the stex.

[Mulefisk 15]

Great stuff!

This is absolutely perfect for my cities!

Can't wait for them to be released.

[tiemanj 5]

Ok, I'm back.  Work hit me the last few weeks (again).  I want to add some boats, and give some variety, but I need help.  Can anyone help build some boats.  The models don't need to be extensive.  I was looking at Goldiva's yacht club, and his boats and thought that about 5 or 6 boats like these would look great on the marina lots:



Can anyone help me create some boats like these?

[JayStimson 211]

I'd love to help ya but I tried a couple of times to make boats ... not easy to make nice ones. I still haven't figured out the real trick to making nice hulls. I may give it another go soon (for the marina I'm working on). If I have any success, I'll let you know. Otherwise, I really like the idea you have going here. Should make for some nice singular lots to plop on the waterfront behind R$$$ houses. With Gizmo's updated waterflora mod this should make for some appealing high wealth residential neighborhoods.

BTW, the ones in your pic don't look to bad. What's wrong with those ?

[tiemanj 5]

The ones in the pic are from Goldiva's waterfront marina.  I really like them and I was using them as a template for what I want.  Unfortnally he hasn't been on the forum in over a year, otherwise I'd PM him and see if he had any intrest.

I found you can make a decent hull by drawing the cross section in the top view, then applying a lathe in the x axis for 360 degress.  Convert it to a mesh, go to front or side view and delete all vertices above the halfway point.  I have a sail boat that I'm halfway happy with now.

Actually (this is the first I've looked at on preview) it doesn't look half bad.  Clean up the textures a bit andI might have a product.  Any one really good with textures out their want to help?

[JayStimson 211]

that's pretty good progress. some less than knowledgeable observations: taper the vertical mast a bit. narrow the boat a bit or stretch it out. looks a little fat and pudgy. use a boolean to cut out some space inside the hull where people would normally sit / stand. just little stuff but i think it would add a lot. you're doing way better than i could. if you want to post the gmax file, i can fiddle a bit with textures for you. pm me if that's easier for you.

[jacqulina 162]

great progress here and great work

[tiemanj 5]

Ok... I have the boats, now I just have to get rid of the water bug.  I created a clone of the entire building to make a skin tight LOD:

, deleted all the UVW maps from it, moved it back over the dock, and made LOD3, LOD4 and LOD5, and I get this:

How do I fix this...I made the LOD by grouping it togeather.  Is this the problem, and if so how do I attach everything without grouping?

Thanks in advance.

[JayStimson 211]

Not sure I understand exactly where you are. Typically you would group everything. Then clone a copy (not instance) of the group. Now you have 2 groups. Convert the 2nd group to editable mesh (without ungrouping) and then upgroup it. Select 1 of the objects from the 2nd group that you just ungrouped. Do an attach list and attach all. Rename to LOD3 and clone (instance) it to make LOD4 and LOD5. Should work fine.

Note 1: If you have any objects that are not touching (hanging out in space by themselves) the render may not work.

Note 2: Can you post an in-game pic illustrating your "water bug" ?

Note 3: You can remove the uvm maps and materials from your LODs but I'm not sure it's actually required. I've heard different opinions but it's worked fine for me without removing the maps and materials.

Note 4: Depending on your render result, you may have to simplify the LODs on the pylons. I can explain a really good (and easy) technique I got from jasoncw if depending on your results from doing everything else.

[choco1 4]

These look really nice! The small piers are simple, yet very realistic and effective. I think this is something many people (myself included) have wanted for a long time, and the best part is that they don't have any base texture.

Goodluck!

[Mulefisk 15]

Once again, can't wait for this to be released.

Keep up the great work!

[tiemanj 5]

Much better.  thanks.

[JayStimson 211]

Looking good. What was the problem ?

[tiemanj 5]

Ok.  does anyone know what is going on with this?

Zoom 4 is fine, zoom 5 has some maxis building fused onto it, a different building in each direction.  I tried re-rendering it and got different buildings, and messed up on zoom 4 and 5 (3- was fine).  LODs are all one connected shape, with protrusions comming out the bottom (wouldn't render using above method, I think the LODs were too complex).

any thoghts?

[jacqulina 162]

these look wonderfull i am sure you will be able to sort out the problem

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Could this be an FSH ID conflict? I've seen that the SimCity DAT files contain FSHs with faces of different Maxis buildings, not one set of FSHs per building - maybe parts of these FSHs get displayed instead of yours?

[JayStimson 211]

It's a LOD problem. Try resetting cameras and lights. Save. Exit BAT. Open again. Reset cameras and lights. Save. Export.

if this doesn't work, you'll need to build new LODs with simpler geometry. Just for the heck of it, try making your pylons 4 sided cylinders (default is 18 i think). Then group, clone, etc. to make your LODs and try rendering again. I was having the same problem (this is not unusual in BAT) so i made an extruded rectangles the same dimensions as my pylons, used the align tool to place them over each pylon. created the LODs, then deleted the square pylons (extruded rectangles). The square pylons were only for making the LODs. Rendered like a champ after that.

[tiemanj 5]

Good news and bad news.  It looks like I got almost everything sorted out and got the docks into the game:

It appears that it was a LOD issue.  I used the big box LODs, shrunk them so that they only were above the "water line" (above Z axis 0), then copied the ramp and pilons, and added them to the LOD.  It was a simple enough LOD that it exported no problem.  Thanks for all your help.

Jay - Sorry, I don't have a picture of the waterbug, but it appeard similar to your's in your marina.  Funny thing was that it didn't show up all the time, which is why I think I avoid it at first.  It appearts that it only causes trouble when the big box goes under water.

Next step is to add a boardwalk of some sort along the beach line.  I need to create something that overhangs the dock lot.  How do I create a building or prop that can overhang an entire tile?

Bad news, I busted the LCD on my laptop...so I probably won't get much done while I send it away to get fixed.  Ugh.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

whew!  It's good that you changed the LOD to something more simple.  Using those insanly compex LODs (the ones that are copies of the entire scene cloned and attached together) would either grind the game to a halt, or would make it crash all together.

[JayStimson 211]

tiemanj: looking good. glad you reconciled the water bug issue. if you think about it, the box type LOD below the Z axis "displaces" the water it occupies (image-wise) so you should expect the odd appearing water bug. That's why for details below the water-line (like pylons) the LODs need to be tight fitting. For objects above the water-line, you're "displacing" air which has no color or texture so no ill effect. Makes me wonder though ... if you have lots of air pollution, would you see the same effect above the z axis ? My guess is that you would but I haven't tested it.

Anyway, looks like you're well on your way to completion on this project. Great job.