My demand just crashed

[Homeless_Hobo 0]

I can't seem to find a good immage host...so no pic.

Anyway, My demand is funky. R$ and R$$ are going up, and R$$$ is usually either going down below 0 or above a little. CS$ is going up max, and everything else is down. Industry is high up in demand too...

These things shift every month going up and down, especially R$$$ and the Commercial...is there any way to get them steady? They used to be so high before! I don't know wh this is happening, it's not plugins because I checked...

I should also mention that my city has close to 200,000 people now, and lots of commecial jobs (Only about 2,000 industrial jobs, and I got rid of most of em)

Also, after downloading the abandonment dilapidation modd 1.2 demand went to the negatives to EVERYTHING, after deleting it it seems to have gone back to normal, but I'm not sure if it left any effects.

After looking at a nearby city, ALL residential demand is down to the bottom...I don't understand why this is happening.

EDIT: http://www.zshare.net/image/simcity-bmp.html

There's a pic. The commercial demand goes up and down, and the R$$$ is just weird for some strange reason.

[Bones1 96]

Assuming you're not at some demand cap, then usually you'll have at least one type of red/comm/ind that is in positive demand. Zone for it, and let it grow.

(Simplified) The way things work in Simcity is:

The education level of your sims determines demand for commerce and industry. A high EQ means you have high demand for I-HT and CO$$$. A low EQ means you have high demand for CS$ and I-D. You have to satisfy that demand by zoning new areas, or bulldozing old areas with the "wrong" type of commerce or industry.

Then, the available jobs determines demand for residential wealth levels. Lots of CS$ and I-D jobs means high demand for R$. Lots of CS$$$ and I-HT jobs means high demand for R$$$ and R$$.

You can really mess up demand by bullzozing large tracts of residential if those sims are well educated. That is because when the area redevelops (new sims move in), they come in with a much lower EQ. That messes up demand for commerce and industry.

[Homeless_Hobo 0]

I'll try to put arround school then, I dunno why my demand just screwed up. CS$ demand is going through the roof, and no R$$$ sims are moving in even tho there is adequate education.

I hope its not coz of a plugin, but I only have BATs...and maybe some idiot messed one up or something, but I don't know.

[Peorth 17]

A high CS

[Bones1 96]

Originally posted by: Peorth A high CS§ demand basically means you have lots of R§ sims. Commercial services, as the name implies, are the auto shops, malls, restaurants, etc., and serve sims of the corresponding wealth level. For example you wouldn't expect mechanics in Bob's Grease Pits to clamor for a Grand Hotel (CS§§§, although the CEO and executives in Hurt Enterprise Headquarters might.quote>

 

The wealth level of your sims does impact demand for services and jobs, but so does the education level of your sims. I think education may be even more important than wealth.

Out-of-whack education may be part of the problem why regions go into recessions.

For example, if you have a lot of very poorly educated R$$$ and R$$ sims in your region, your demand for CO$$$ and I-HT jobs will drop (because your education sucks). However, those R$$ and R$$$ still must work at jobs appropriate for their wealth level. If the jobs go away, then you've got a bunch of sims looking for work, but the work isn't there because the jobs won't build because the education level is too low.

Similary, highly-educated R$ sims can result in lots of demand for high-income jobs (because of the education level), but the R$ sims can't work at those jobs.

I haven't really tested the above scenarios very much, but I think it may be one of the reasons why regions sometimes get into trouble.

[iHATEwrenINSURANCE 0]

what are tilesets, and when do they change?

[Homeless_Hobo 0]

I am making education a bigger part of my city, and 2/3rds of it are green educated. Also, I have a corner with C$$$ skyscrapers

[Homeless_Hobo 0]

Now that I think of it my problem is like in this thread

https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=77192&enterthread=y

The only way I can "fix" it is to start a new citynot connected to the effected cities, that turns them back to normal, and I have no idea how to fix it in the effected cities.

It's also weird, because absolutley no R$$ or R$$$ people come in no matter how much fiddling with taxes I do. They just stay out, and I basically have a ghetto with crappy low class buildings that don't pay me enough taxes, thus budget problems, thus no city.

[RiverCocytus 0]

actually, all levels of wealth create demand for CS$.

CS$ refers to cheap services.

CS$$ refers to moderately priced services that only those of medium wealth could afford very often.

CS$$$ refers to luxury services that only the wealth can afford very often.

So an spa might be CS$$ of CS$$$; depending on if it was expensive or not.

I say this because I made a region with just R$$ and R$$$ and I got plenty (though not a whole heck of a lot) of CS$ demand. However, I always had good education, so it never spiked horribly, but whenever commercial demand popped back up CS$ would always be there. I think that commercial is synergetic to some extent (it feeds itself.)

Education is not sufficient to make R$$$ move in. You must have demand for R$$$, you must have a city of 1000+ residents and you must provide public water to the zones

About your ghetto problem; I say go with it. It is difficult to make a city without gigantic tax controls that is filled with R$. Scale down your costs by reducing education and health services, or other services that you really don't need. Watch R$ desirability; it won't even budge! You can keep a certain amount of education, but don't go full blast. Full education (elementary school, high school, library, city college, museum, university...) plus full health coverage, plus police coverage (which becomes necessary with huge quantities of R$) will just waste your money.

My suggestion? Cut your losses. If you provide only library and musuem, you will maintain education levels over time (provided new sims are not moving in.) add a city college and you will see a gradual rise. Or, if you are getting new sims, use the 'data views' -> 'sim average age' and look for bright green areas. Plant elementary schools only where the bright green is prevalent; Sure some young sims in the bluer areas aren't getting education; but you're more interested in the overall level of education.

High schools will just waste your money.

If you can, try zero-funding bus radii and placing more schools; saves you money over time (though it wastes space.)

Look at your other costs and cut them accordingly.

I would not suggest cutting health, since it will probably reduce the effectiveness of your education.

If you have had a drop in population of a type, you will find that demands will pit out that are associated with those population types. Sucks-- one good reason to avoid those NJZs! (and to tax appropiately to your rate of commercial/industrial expansion.)

However you could still cut health.

---

How to chase out R$ list version 1 (or, conversely, what to avoid doing to be able to treat them like serfs and still have them in your city)

1. bulldoze those tenements!

2. cut off transit to work.

3. remove mass transit (or don't put it in) for massive R$ towers

4. a. build nuclear power. b. blow it up

5. cut off public water for apartments or larger (Stage 4+)

6. cut off electricity

7. bulldoze all of their jobs (good luck if you have neighbor cities...)

8. don't zone enough jobs

That's my quick-hit list for ghettos. Avoid those conditions and you should be able to maximize suffering while minimizing... er, did I say suffering? I meant, um, occupancy. Yeah

Hope that helps; maybe you will be able to rescue those cities. Also do not be afraid to raise taxes on them -- they'll never leave because of taxes! (they just won't move in...)

[a2b2c3 0]

Ok, these posts aren't really helping Homeless Hobo or I with our problem.  Well at least I know they aren't helping me.  I have education.  I have met the demand caps.  I have everything my city could need right now.  Yet for some reason, all of the residents in the city decided that they didn't want to find work anymore.  I can't figure it out.  I mean they used to drive over a bridge and find work in the industrial sector but now the only things that go over that bridge are buses and they completely ignore the industry.  I don't get it.  No industry on that side of the map has people going to it.  The industry on the other side sure.  But a whole lot of jobs as far as I can tell arn't being filled yet the industry isn't dieing and the worst part is becuase of this my residents can't find a job so they leave then they come back, then they leave, etc...  It's a cycle I can't get out of.  I've slowly risen my education from the 80 it fell to when this drop off occured up to about 130 but that's not making a differance.  Commerce and industry are both like -3000 in demand and nothing seems to be bringing them out of it.  The demand indicator (posted in this thread if you wanna see it https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=77192&enterthread=y  ) says that my city wants residents.  Yet all the residents can't get a job and end up leaving again.  It's not education or health or access to roads, my city has all that.  For some odd reason  the people went crazy.  Look at my previous post.  Look at the charts.  Look at how the population went crazy.  Explain that to me.  I have a seaport, I have all the postive rewards I can place, I have power and water and garbage disposal I need, I have all the health and education I need.  My city just lost it's will to work and I can't figure out why or how to get it back on track.  I mean heck, I even have a city next door filled with industry and people and I don't know where most of the industry gets there workers from.  They only show freight trucks leaving.  Doesn't say where the workers come from.  I don't know if that's my problem or what.

[Sam 163]

Homeless_Hobo:

I noticed in the first message you posted in this thread that your city has a very high demand for all industry except agriculture. I think if you can supply this, eg in one or more neighbour cities, this might help solve your problem.

You need to keep a balance between residents and jobs. And not just any jobs. The jobs need to be appropriate to the education and wealth of your sims. They also need to be close enough to the sims that need them. Your sims here seem to be saying they need industrial jobs, and once you supply them, you may see your residential and commercial demand take off again.

Based on the zone layout of your city, you could probably put your extra industry in your neighbour cities, if you haven't built on them yet. Neighbour connections will also help boost your industrial and commercial demand.

<Edit> You said your low wealth sims don't provide enough taxes to support your city. Just check you are not overfunding your civic structures like schools. Once your sims get older for example, they have fewer children attending school, so  you may be able to reduce your funding to save some money. I also find my transit system more than pays for itself, and funds a lot of the other services of my cities. </edit>

[Homeless_Hobo 0]

Yes, transit system gives me about 3,000$ every month which I like. Actually, I was talking about the low wealth people not providing when I made a NEW city (There is NO demand for R$$ or R$$$)

I've also made I$$ in a neighbor city (Most of the people without work are R$$) and NOBODY comes. Exactly how a2b2c2 said, freight trucks leave, but no workforce comes in.

[newyorkstate 6]

Another Demand Problem? 3 I come across in one day! Is this interesting. Actually, this ones pretty normal (Normal R$~R$$, Low R$$$) so there are a whole collection of logical explanations.

[Homeless_Hobo 0]

Well, actually now for me, R$$ is also down, and no matter how much I accomadate them, NO R$$ people can move in. I guess I have to start all over with an unconnected city, huh...

[Sam 163]

I don't think you need to start a new unconnected city just yet. Can you post an image of your city that shows a wider angle? Your population charts and tax rates would probably also help, and maybe a region view if you have neighbour cities.

When you made the neighbour city with industry, did you switch between the cities a few times and let each run for a bit? It may take a little while for them to adjust to each other.

I think your city may be a bit out of balance in it's residential wealth levels ie it may have too many R$$ and R$$$ and not enough R$ and industry. Have you tried putting R$ only in a connected neighbour city along with some industry? I find industry is a good money spinner, they pay taxes and don't need much in the way of services. R$ can take a sim year or more to be profitable in a new city, so you need to keep enough in the coffers to cover the non-profitable years in a new city. If you combine R$ and industry in a new city, it should be profitable quite quickly (and it should give your industry some workers)

But some more pictures would be helpful. I think your problem is slightly different to a2b2c3's problem.

[Homeless_Hobo 0]

Alright, I have used your advice and played both the industrial city AND the big city with the problem, and it worked. This in turn, has brought down ID demand down way far, which is awesome.

STILL, manufacturing stays good.
So I decide to make another connected city, with demand problems and all.
I turn up taxes on the IM, and I have IHT to the max. I get rid of all my crappy old industries, to the point of having only HT industries develop, and the occasional manufacturing here and there. Sounds, good, right? WRONG!

Apparently, for some obscure reason my R$$$ folk don't wanna work at the I-HT. Sure, the R$$ guys work, but the R$$$ guys have no-work zots even though I have a HUGE I-HT area, here's a pic


Alright, I have used your advice and played both the industrial city AND the big city with the problem, and it worked. This in turn, has brought down ID demand down way far, which is awesome.

STILL, manufacturing stays good.
So I decide to make another connected city, with demand problems and all.
I turn up taxes on the IM, and I have IHT to the max. I get rid of all my crappy old industries, to the point of having only HT industries develop, and the occasional manufacturing here and there. Sounds, good, right? WRONG!

Apparently, for some obscure reason my R$$$ folk don't wanna work at the I-HT. Sure, the R$$ guys work, but the R$$$ guys have no-work zots even though I have a HUGE I-HT area, here's a pic

http://www.zshare.net/image/simcity-nojobforrichfolks-bmp.html

Yes, it's a $%&^! city, but I wanna make the R$$$ people work in the I-HT. Even if they dont wanna work there, I have no idea of knowing how to increase C$$$ demand (Oh and by the way, theres another plot of IHT to the left.)

Yes, it's a $%&^! city, but I wanna make the R$$$ people work in the I-HT. Even if they dont wanna work there, I have no idea of knowing how to increase C$$$ demand (Oh and by the way, theres another plot of IHT to the left.)

Update: Alright, I've upgraded my very small residential part to medium density, and what I observe is interesting. I have NO R$ (which is pretty good) and ALL my R$$ can find work easily. Now, here comes the interesting part. NONE of my R$$$ are working. They for some reason don't go to high tech industry, I don't know why! I can't find anything else to employ them with! It's very strange...
All my R$$$ mansions are pretty messed up, going down to R$$ because of lack of work.

[cifa 7]

Originally posted by: Homeless_Hobo

Alright, I have used your advice and played both the industrial city AND the big city with the problem, and it worked. This in turn, has brought down ID demand down way far, which is awesome.

STILL, manufacturing stays good.

So I decide to make another connected city, with demand problems and all.

I turn up taxes on the IM, and I have IHT to the max. I get rid of all my crappy old industries, to the point of having only HT industries develop, and the occasional manufacturing here and there. Sounds, good, right? WRONG!

Apparently, for some obscure reason my R$$$ folk don't wanna work at the I-HT. Sure, the R$$ guys work, but the R$$$ guys have no-work zots even though I have a HUGE I-HT area, here's a pic

Alright, I have used your advice and played both the industrial city AND the big city with the problem, and it worked. This in turn, has brought down ID demand down way far, which is awesome.

STILL, manufacturing stays good.

So I decide to make another connected city, with demand problems and all.

I turn up taxes on the IM, and I have IHT to the max. I get rid of all my crappy old industries, to the point of having only HT industries develop, and the occasional manufacturing here and there. Sounds, good, right? WRONG!

Apparently, for some obscure reason my R$$$ folk don't wanna work at the I-HT. Sure, the R$$ guys work, but the R$$$ guys have no-work zots even though I have a HUGE I-HT area, here's a pic

http://www.zshare.net/image/simcity-nojobforrichfolks-bmp.html

Yes, it's a $%&^! city, but I wanna make the R$$$ people work in the I-HT. Even if they dont wanna work there, I have no idea of knowing how to increase C$$$ demand (Oh and by the way, theres another plot of IHT to the left.)

Yes, it's a $%&^! city, but I wanna make the R$$$ people work in the I-HT. Even if they dont wanna work there, I have no idea of knowing how to increase C$$$ demand (Oh and by the way, theres another plot of IHT to the left.)

Update: Alright, I've upgraded my very small residential part to medium density, and what I observe is interesting. I have NO R$ (which is pretty good) and ALL my R$$ can find work easily. Now, here comes the interesting part. NONE of my R$$$ are working. They for some reason don't go to high tech industry, I don't know why! I can't find anything else to employ them with! It's very strange...

All my R$$$ mansions are pretty messed up, going down to R$$ because of lack of work.

quote>

 

Hey dude what is your tax rate for R$$$ sims? Maybe the taxes for richest people are too low, and you need to tax 'em more... as far as R$$$ sims hardly find a job, also in hi-tech industries.

I found a graphic i downloaded some times ago, when i was passed tru a problem similar at yours...I hope this can help...

Developer type :      R$         R$$    R$$$

cs$                            100%    0%      0%

cs$$                          68%      27%    0%

cs$$$                        62%      30%    8%

co$$                          40%      50%    10%

co$$$                        20%      65%    15%

IAg.                            100%    0%       0%

ID                               100%    0%       0%

I-M                             50%      45%     5%

I-HT                           10%      80%    10%

 

The percentual are how many people can work in the type of jobs on the right. As you can see, R$$$ has a LOW percentual in ALL of job's type.  That means, if you have lots of R$$$ people they'll hardly find a job, also if you have lots and lots of hi-tech works, as you said ( look the percentual, is 10% ) . And, to have not lots of R$$$ folks, simply tax 'em, not more than 15% anyways, or richest sims will completly disappear and your R$$$ building that you just have got will be abandonated .... just, tax em a bit more, if that's the problem ( it could be.... )   

[Homeless_Hobo 0]

Yeah, but I WANT more rich sims. I just want them to get a job! All the rich sims in my other cities seem to find jobs, so why not here?

[Sam 163]

The way the game is balanced, you can't have too many rich sims in a city or region. Just remember that in real life not everyone can be a CEO or high court judge. For every CEO think of how many janitors, cleanters, typists and middle managers are needed. The same is true in sim city. For your cities/regions to be balanced you should have no more than 5% R$$$, no more than 45% R$$ and at least 50% R$$$. Otherwise you will definately have lots of R$$$ and R$$ that can't find jobs, because they have no-one to work for them and keep their companies running. You will always need to have a reasonable amount of R$ sims somewhere in your region.

<edit> To improve the situation in your pictured city, perhaps put a little bit of commercial zoning on the two free sides of the residential area, to provide some work for the R$$$. You may get some offices for them. Also R$$$ hate long commutes. Its best to keep their workplaces as close as possible to them. They also like to drive, so lots of road/avenue/highway connections from the residential to the workplaces will help. R$$$ hate public transport (unless you have a mod). </edit>

[Homeless_Hobo 0]

Ahh, I see. Well, that explains it. Well, right now mansions cant find much work all over the city...it's weird, what happens to one city happens to everything connected to it.

[Sam 163]

That's the general idea, and what Maxis intended when they created the game. Its not really that wierd. Back when SimCity 3000 was *the* SimCity, everyone said they wanted to be able to play larger cities, and to be able to play the neighbour cities. The problem was, computers couldn't handle larger cities. So Maxis came up with the idea of regions. The cities were like the old cities in SC3k, and about the same size but in SC4 you can connect them so they basically can become one big city. But the average computer won't keel over since it only plays one piece of the city at a time. So it was really a compromise.

In SC4 in order to have the effect of one big city, the "cities" are connected and what happens in one city affects what happens in others, (once you connect them). This is realistic if you think of the regions as cities and the cities as suburbs. For example if you had a big shopping centre and office complex in one suburb, the workers would probably want to live in the next suburb. They would want to be close to work, but not so close that the traffic kept them awake at night. If you had a lot of unit blocks in another suburb, then you would expect that these people would want somewhere nearby to shop and work, but again they would not want a big industrial estate right in their back yard.

Maxis went to a lot of effort to make this version of SimCity much more realistic than its predecessors. However this also makes it much more complex, and its difficult to learn all the things you need to take into account when building your cities. Its a lot harder to play than the previous versions, but maybe that's why people are still interested in playing it so long after it was released.