magicrobbie

Let's look at the positives: the first good decision by EA/Maxis in a long time. We finally got offline mode! Yay! Modders of this world: unite to keep this franchise alive! Improve this game and show EA how great it could have been from the start! Thank you in advance!

The core gameplay engine is flawed. So either EA fixes it (unlikely), modders fix it (they would if allowed to) or it doesn't get fixed at all. I just wish a big shot at EA would actually sit down to play and thus understand Sim City 4 and the importance of the modding community to the gameplay experience and brand value.

- offline singleplayer - "meaningful" AI (Sims behave like people, not like one-day nonsense resource agents) - full and free moddability - larger maps (at least 4x current size) - terraforming - zoning like in SC4 (lot size, density) - zoning density based on zoning, not on road size - adjacent city tiles so that we can create huge metropolitan areas - possibility to save and load games at any time - map creator - subways

EA please walk the talk and fix SimCity. It should be clear from the Forums what should be done.

"Sports Parks: Tuned the amount of skateboarders and neighborhood athletes at the sports parks." Maxis, don't try to fool us with big patch numbers (2.0, 3.0) - fix the real, core gameplay issues everybody is (still) talking about.

Guys, don't let them guide you into the wrong direction. Glassbox had and has major flaws (i.e. pathfinding, agent-based sims). Those issues are a result of bad game design, not of overstretching the simulation's level of detail. I am still waiting for an honest apology combined with the promise to fix the extensively discussed core gameplay issues.

In fact, EA might be well advised to publicly accept the help of the modding community to fix this game. With all due respect - after what we've seen - I am not sure whether the guys at Maxis/EA are capable of fixing this game. But I am sure that the modders out there would be able to fix SimCity within weeks right at its core: offline region play, large and adjacenity tiles, an INTELLIGENT simulation with meaningful AI, old-school zoning (low, medium, high density in control of player) with visible building lots, and terraforming. EA - please stop spending money on propaganda, invest in capable people and listen to your loyal and talented fans!

that's great info, thank you. would Azzer also be able to comment on whether it is possible to increase city size (processing requirements, inflated processing needs due to weak AI, graphics, etc)?

salami tactics - they only come out with the truth if they can't hold up their lies anymore. bit by bit. wondering what EA's reply to the outcry over massive flaws in game design/Glassbox will be.

Dear ETK, we are not talking about a few minor compromises due to limited available processing power. We are talking about MAJOR flaws in Glassbox. An agent-based simulation doesn't make any sense if agents fail to complete basic tasks in a meaningful manner.

With all due respect, I disagree. Not buying the game and complaining here is the only way for us to express our feelings and make our voices heard - in the hope to still eventually get a worthy successor of Sim City 4. And we might prevent others from buying a game they won't like - remember that there is a no refund-policy. Looking at the game - weren't our concerns justified? Please think about it in a bigger context - in any good and working democracy, being a critical and outspoken citizen helps raise the standards of public governance.

Thanks - clearly demonstrates that there are a lot more issues than just server problems/DRM. If pathfinding fails on such a basic level, the whole idea behind Glassbox (agent-based simulation) falls apart. Epic failure! What were they thinking and doing?

yes, of course!

It's not all about always online DRM. It is also about deleting user-friendly core features for the sake of higer control over the user-experienc and DLC (terraforming, modding, undo, reload old save, etc.). PR been horribly unhonest. Lastly, the game seems prematurely released as there are still various bugs within the game engine (weak traffic simulation, buggy agent simulation). An extended open beta and open and transparent communication with the loyal fan base could have prevented much of this disaster. EA really got it all wrong on this one!

It's not Sim City, it's Sim Village Societies.

Still, they capped everybody to small tile sizes even though better computers could easily handle larger maps. Don't forget Ocean said they are targeting the average, somewhat outdated non-gaming PC. Why not let the player decide and fully utilize his PC?

I don't think Glassbox is the issue. Most limitations seem to come from forced online multiplayer and DLC. leaderboards -> no terraforming, small map sizes, no adjacent cities (to prevent "unfair advantages") DLC -> always online, no moddability Aside from all that - I don't know why Glassbox has to simulate ALL sims in a city. I'd assume that simulating just 10,000 sims in a city with a population of 1,000,000 would be a good compromise between simulation detail and performance?

from what we have learned so far: multiplayer region-play is based on highly simplified statistical simulation and it won't be real-time.

C'mon Ocean, ever heard of adjustable performance settings?

Remember that we won't be able to load older saves. So if one screws up a city for whatever reason, the solution is probably to either start a new city from scratch or to buy resources online with real cash to get your city going again. Aside from the (in itself limited) sandbox mode: always-online, forced-multiplayer and forced-leaderboards create an environment not compatible with cheating and modding.

This... is just silly beyond belief.

I'd say the beta feedback on this site has been overwhelmingly negative. Fans have clearly stated why they are disappointed and what changes they would like to see in the final game. However, there hasn't been a single response from EA - quite disturbing I'd say, given the extremely loyal and talented fan community. The bulldozer EA is marching ahead. Fans in the way - beware! In any case, it is unrealistic to assume EA would be able to implement the crucial changes us fans want to see in the remaining 2 weeks until they have to start shipping the product.

Has there been an article on how the intercity simulation works? What we are learning from this link (http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/17cjbl/impressions_from_a_long_time_sim_city_fan/c84b7l1) is that a) there is no Glassbox between cities, b) our city boxes are calculated on our computers, c) just simulating a 2x2 km tile eats up a lot of resources (=reason for small city size), and d) the reason why there are no adjacent cities is that there is no Glassbox between cities and it would have looked odd to have unsynced cities side-by-side. To me, it seems that the inter-city simulation must be somewhat similar to the one of Sim City 4 and primarily aesthetical reasons are limiting us from having adjacent city tiles. Based on the link, I have three questions: 1) Why not let the player decide on city size based on computing power available to him/her? 2) since our city boxes are calculated on our computers - is server-based gameplay really a requirement? and 3) would it be possible to somehow overcome aesthetical issues and provide us with adjacent city tiles?

Yes, I also think that most limitations can be traced back to server-backed gaming. And this makes me angry because server-based gaming is just another form of DRM. There is no need for Sim City to be online all the time other than for the multiplayer component - and this is a new and arguably optional component. I'm pretty sure offline singleplayer could handle the glassbox calculations for large city tiles and cities side-by-side. And without the need to balance and control multiplayer, modding, mapmaking, terraforming, etc. should also be possible.

I disagree with the original post. Most fans in this forum think Sim City 2013 has promise: the glassbox engine, building upgrades, multiplayer = a great foundation to what could become a most amazing game. What most fans here complain about is that EA has decided to scrap core functionality of previous games - stuff that has made Sim City great and kept us playing an outdated game. Sim City 4 has one of the most loyal and active fan communities out there and it is incomprehensible to me how EA could produce a game without listening to its fan community closely enough. All we want is: - offline singleplayer - large city tiles - cities side-by-side - full moddability - terraforming - map creator - ability to control zoning density Those were essential core functionalities of Sim City 4. Why on earth did EA decide to scrap this? Answer: - perceived profit opportunity: server-based gaming = DRM = less piracy - perceived profit opportunity: buildings/infrastructure = future download packs - perceived profit opportunity: Facebook-type gameplay = larger audience (? to be seen) In my mind, it would be quite easy for EA to "fix" Sim City 2013 and make its loyal fans happy. Personally, I think EA is on the wrong track here and that they have lost common business sense. In my mind, happy fans are good customers - so more profitable. Look at Star Citizen - those guys are doing everything they can to truly please their fans. They are very open about criticism and responsive. I think it all starts with honestly addressing the core issues discussed here in the forums and giving the right signal to us fans.