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Raziaar

Im always confused on where to start.

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I've had this game since the day it was released. Thing is, i've never gotten very far with it. I've installed it countless times, downloaded thousands of plugins. Lately I started the cycle again.

I start off making a map, hand terraforming. Here's the one I made. Two images, to show a problem I had when making it look seamless(you can notice the lines at the edges). However, the trees cover it up nicely.
 
withouttrees6eq.jpg
 
withtrees9lp.jpg
 
 
 
It's 9 big cities. I figured it'd be a good start for someone like me.
 
Now, my problem comes with where to build my first city. In this one, I chose the middle far right one, and starting building on the island(not that tiny tiny island. The long stretching pinninsula. Okay, so I guess its not an island. But it is if just viewing that one map seperately). However, I really don't know what to do from here. I know how to construct a city, but the way i'm doing it is all wrong.
 
Can you guys tell me how you start constructing your first city in a region? What's the first thing you do? Second? Do you take a long time to painstakingly plan out a nice area, then unpause the game? Or do you start very small, and just tack on from there.
 
My cities usually end up becoming a mess, because I lack a proper workflow in constructing them.

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You see... i've got exactly the problem you have. Know were to start (or almost), but don't know exactly how to keep my city in order as ut growns up... It ends in a carnage of various zots, from the no job to the commut time too long...8.gif15.gif15.gif

So... is there anybody could tell us how to have a good beginning for our cities ?...42.gif
Anyway... good map, Raziaar, it's nice one, and if you have terraformed all of it, very good job, you must have spend a lot of time to do it...
Bye

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Thats my problem too 7.gif. I think this uber nice city in my head I build it then theres no work or to much pollution blah blah then the anoying sims get to me and I send on the robots. 6.gif

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Whats up guys, I'll try to help as much as I can, I'm not to keen on posting images DLing maps but I can terraform and build excellent regions.

I think the major problem with the game comes from deciding efficiency or aesthetic qualities, or, combining both, wich I think most of us try to do after we create these huge cumbersome and complicated cities.
 
When i start a region, i tend to tell a story in my head on how it started, not a detailed story, just kind of a backdrop as to how things got started. I usually pick a city with a bigger body of water in it, water brings life, so I accentuate that in game by building a small port city, very small, I use all low density zoning from the get, and upgrade as demands rise and space dwindles.
 
But upgrading to mid-high density takes alot of time the way I build, and I also use a couple of mods. In the bigger city tiles, with the normal traffic time, even if your pop is under 5,000, and there is no traffic, what seems like it would be close to you, is WAy too far for your sims. i use the NAM, coupled with x10 commute time, the industry quadrupler (because most of my cities were cesspools of industry) and  the abandonment dilapidation mod (I may take this one out as it tends to mask problems.)
 
So, in a nutshell, I start with a city and zone just a little bit at a time watching the RCI meter, I only zone what is needed and tax higher or lower where appropiate. I start with farms and build 3-4 cities in wich farms are the backbone. Not one of the 3-4 cities will have education or water, just health AND, I limit wich ares will have health as well. As  these cities are being built, as I switch from region view, I look to see where a CBD* would fit best, then I go into that cityand water a small part of it, THEN the first industry is zoned and watered.
 
The city chosen for the CBD will have lots of time invested in it first, mostly just alotta thinkin', no zoning, just thoughts of what where and when as far as MT* goes.
 
In your case Raziaar, building on all big city tiles, what I would do is build seperate cities within the Big city tile:
 
Zone a bunch of farming, as much as demand will allow, don't spend all your money, then zone res. zone only till demand runs out of res. then go to an adjacent city (outside of your big city tile you started with) and do the same thing, when you return to the first city, the demand will have risen on account of the newer city, so now you add to the first city again until the demands are met.
 
Then, this is kinda cool, I start another city within the first big city tile away from existing zoning, with no connections TO the existing zoning, do the same thing, zone a lil bit at a time until you have decent growth, then connect those two cities to make the demands merge.
 
You now have 3 cities, one on its own, and in the major city you have 2 cities, from here the choice is yours, personnally I like to farm the crap out of a map, cuz in RL* farms take up crap-l0ads of space and in the beginning of my SC4 career, population was the goal, now it tends to lean towrds realism, so I farm almost all the flatland in the region and take my time doing so.
 
I also NEVER use the default roads set up by the zoner, I build all roads myself, and zone everything myself. Even in the farming communities, I take my time with EVERY city, I use Simgoobers farm canals, Pegasus' pond stream all that good stuff.
 
I also tend to build a city centered on SOMETHING er another, like a really cool rail station, or a raised rail line using the terain, not the NAM, or a landmark, or one of my favorites pond and canal kits, i usually build those first....Oh crap, btw, i play the game on easy, as time is of the essance when i do get to play, so I feel no need to sit and wait for money dammit i wanna build!!!! so i get 500,000 off the get to make a GREAT city center with a canal or pond.
 
But by far, my favorite way to start a city is the Hydro DAM i start a farming village in the mountains and flatten some land about half-way up the mountianfor a PEG pond kit, throw the Dam in make the waterfallsconnect to a stream wich then dumps into a large body of water in some way.
 
 
Cripes, glad I wasnt actually speaking or I'd be out of breath!!!!

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    Date: 1/11/2006 7:45:41 AM Author: SuperBeber

    You see... i've got exactly the problem you have. Know were to start (or almost), but don't know exactly how to keep my city in order as ut growns up... It ends in a carnage of various zots, from the 'no job' to the 'commut time too long'...8.gif15.gif15.gif

    So... is there anybody could tell us how to have a good beginning for our cities ?...42.gif
    Anyway... good map, Raziaar, it's nice one, and if you have terraformed all of it, very good job, you must have spend a lot of time to do it...
    Bye

    quote>
     
    Yeah, I did terraform all of it from scratched. Started with all land, used water thing to cut away from the land. Then once that was down, I elevated the land. As you can see, its not very professional, but I like it. I just wish I could build a nice island city on it!

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    Oh, I'm sorry Raziaar, was my post too long,? I tried to help by spending 45 minutes typing.... sorry I couldnt help more8.gif

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    I am sorry Imotepp. I had NO intention of ignoring your post. I just simply did not have the time at that moment to read it and respond to it. Having done so now, I must thank you for spending all that time in trying to help me out!
     
     
    When I make my cities, you're right. I tend to focus on something, and generally its aesthetic qualities. I want to be able to get a halfway decent looking city before I even worry about efficiency. I haven't played the game enough, or far enough to worry about how efficient my cities are. I just want them to grow beyond a small city! Hehe.
     
    You also have a good idea there, telling a story. Whenever I start dreaming of a city, I usually do the same thing. It helps me somehow to decide which particular city block I want to start construction in. Usually its on the shoreline, going inland. Because why would settlers come to it, and start all the way inland and avoid/ignore the bounties of the sea?
     
    I've noticed that my building style in the past has been the opposite of the one you speak of. In my effort to build nice, big cities, I tend to start zoning everything high density as soon as possible, and in the long run I usually suffer horrible road congestion, because of little thought as to the road layout might be later on with all those new people moving in.
     
    You mention building farms everywhere. What to do in a region that doesn't seem like it'd be very farm friendly? I don't think my island region would be very good for that. Exceptionally hilly and stuff for the most part anyways, and so close to the ocean nearly everywhere. You also talk about building multiple cities. Thats one of my biggest problems as well. I generally run into so many problems when I have two or more adjacent cities, because I can't seem to cope with the skyrocketing demand. I want to be able to master a single, isolated city first, and then slowly branch out once that city has stabalized itself for the most part. In essence, point A, to point B, to point C, etc. Finish one, then move to another, then another. And not starting with several and multitasking between them.
     
    I also have never used the default roads. Once I got the game and figured out how to manually do it, I was always tweaking it to manipulate into my OWN designs, not what the game wanted to auto do.
     
    Another problem of mine is outlined in how you say to build a city centered around something, like mass transit, etc. I usually start small, then build... build build. Filling up all my spaces with as much stuff as possible, to jam pack as many things into one area as I can. This, in the future, leads to the problem of having to do alot of deconstruction if I even wish to have mass transit like trains, avenues, highways, etc.
     
     
    Cripes, glad I wasnt actually speaking or I'd be out of breath!!!!
    quote>
     
    Again, please don't think I was ignoring your post, with all the valuable tips and suggestions you had for me and others. Thank you so much for putting in the effort to help somebody like me out!

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    The tip to read as much as you can in the omnibus is a good way to go...lots of people have spent a considerable amount of time pooling resources to give the whole community help on creating the great cities we all map out in our minds. Spend some time looking through it..these things are here for us all to use and I can personally vouch for the fact that I've got so much more out of my game play since I started the resources available here...its so much more than just somewhere to download cool BATS.

    I wish you lots off luck with your cities.

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    Lol, sorry if I responded rather negativley, I'm glad you got something out of all that nonsense.29.gif
     
    Lets start with the cramming thing...DONT DO IT!!!!, you have all the space you want in this game, What you want to do is, take the  time to look at your region before you start building anything, and develop a highway system in ya head and find an easy path the E-way'll take, I like to lay down avenues as E-ways then convert them to highways when demand see fit if its a complex or very large system.
     
    Next, the farms, When I say FARM IT ALL (lol) I don't mean to leave it there forever, I like to do that strictly to SLOWLY grow the entire REGION, the trick to this game IMHO, is to build each city with your region in mind,(btw yours is an excellent example of hand-terraforming, those 4 corner parts a pain the you know what) I mean, my whole map consists of farms from the get-go, it gets rather boring, but out of all the regions I create, for me, this is my best path of execution. I also belive that farming whereever it may be applicable makes for laying down raods easier in the long run.
     
    Your region and farming,( I am a big $%&^! when it comes to posting pics and the like, so i will try to explain what I would do in your region....(going over map) OK, starting on the peninsula is a great place to start, just zone very res on the peninsula, on the next map over (center with the mountain) this is a great place to grow farms bro, remember, farms don;t have to be square, with a little work and patience you can make it look like those farms have been there for years, i zone farms like-a-so.....
     
    First, I hit the zones thingy to turn off all trees and buildings, then I hit G for the grid, I zone a big-A$$ square of farmland with the square leading up into the mountain, then I De-Zone all the squares that aint too flat ya know, so if the mountain runs onna 45 degree angle (wich it does in this city anyway) the farm will do the same. After I trim the edges of the farm zone I cut it up into seperate pieces of road, making a small farming community, lets say you have a beautifil farm from BSC or CSX with one of those gorgeous buildings, use that as a center point for a farming village and zone a few residential, A geat place to look for inspiration is SIMTROPIA by JeroniJ, also take a look at Columbia river by the same author AND take a look at Digby I ferget the guys name, it hasnt been updated in a while but its astonishing the way everything flows as if its been there ferever.
     
    So, on the bigger Island to the north, you could try an zonefarming in the middle of the entire thing, run a high-way from east to west and north to south right in the center. Zone all you res and what not around the outside next to the water, this way you can start building towns and cities surrounding the farms to give you sims the early jobs they need
     
    I think things start going haywire once you water and educate the sims and the demands get all crazy, thats why i like to build a crap load of small stupid-thirsty cities cuz for me its easier to control the demand. Doing things in this way you grow your region in stages, from farming to dirty/manufacturing industry, to High-tech, after you fill the map with a buncha small cities and farms, pick where you want your golden egg of a city and give her a drink, this will bring medium wealth along with maufacturing jobs for the medium wealth, and move along the line of cities doing the same thing, once you've finished, then start schooling them, but start small, just a school and a library.
     
     I find it much harder to build regions one city at a time, as it makes your region look broken up into your city tiles, whereas if you build the whole thing a lil at a time you may find things blend much better.
     
    One more tip23.gif(sorry)  i like to seperate each residential are into sub-divisions, giving each area ONE access to a main artery that leads to the jobs. hope this was helpful as well.
     
    BTW your region is beautiful cheers to time well spent44.gif

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    I've had the same problem too.  I feel your pain!  I've picked this game up at least 20 times since it came out!
     
    Right now I am only using a couple of nice buidling and the park that gives you 400 Billion cash a month.  (You can find it at www.simcity.com , in the exchange area.  Just click on Most Downloaded and it should be at the top.)  Mind you I only use park for one month, and then I am set on money.
     
    I am currently working on my new city.
     
    I picked a spot where most cities would probably start... Where the river meets the coast.  Also this land is pretty flat, so I can get the basics of the game down before I start going into complicated mountainous regions.  Get some experience first.
     
    I found that trying to set up all of the police and fire departments and schools and highways and what nots first sort of complicates the city building process for me.
     
    So I start off with an area with industry, residential and commercial all together.  Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know, pollution, but I worry about that later.  You've got to crawl through pollution before you walk in the nice pretty perfect environment.
     
    For me, I make my city efficent first, then once I have the giant population base and cash then I start to worry about making my city look pretty.  I use some sort of grid usually around a 6x6, but that is flexiable as I come across hills, rail or other things that may get in the way.  Also, in every grid, I put one bus stop.  Bus stops are not too expensive, but they really help keep traffic under control.  In my main city of 50k, I have lots of bus stops and only streets and roads.
     
    The rule of thumb I use is, once my I am making more money than spending, I add a service to my city.  This is usaully the order I do it in...
     
    Fire Department
    Police Station
    Medical
    Elementary School
    Water
    Library
    High School
    Garbage
     
    I personally recomend having one of your neighbors build a few waste to energy plants and ship your garbage there.  Once you start playing that neighbor, then destory the waste to energy plants and put it in another neighbor.  Repeat until it's at the edge of the map.  This helps the environment factor.
     
    Then I start to expand my city until the population is approaching 50k.  There are limits on how large a city can become until the region population hits a certain number.
     
    A city can't grow beyond 50,000 unless the region population is greater than 80,000.
     
    A city can't grow beyond 120,000 unless the region population is greater than 120,000.
     
    A city can't grow beyond 200,000 unless the region population is greater than 500,000.
     
    Once I am starting to approach 50k in my first city, I will have a strong commercial demand.  So I raise my Dirty and Manufacturing Taxes to 20% and then destroy those types of factories.  Then I quickly build some more commercial building to replace the lost jobs.
     
    Once the first city is 50k, I move to a new region and lower the Dirty and Manufacturing Taxes down to 8%.  This place will be my industrial area.  So I try to divide this map into two parts, one for residential and a sprinkling of commerce and the other half of industry.
     
    Now be warned, you need good connections between the two cities, because there will be lots of traffic of people from your first city going to this city to work.
     
    That's where I am at right now.  So far, I am content with my cities.
     
    I hope this helps.
     
    -Bjoern Lars
     
    PS. Let me know where I can find this 10x commute Mod and how to install it.  I need to be cured of my ignorance of Mods.
     
    Thanks dudes!

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    Thank you so much for the great and lengthly replies guys! I am going to bed now, but when I wake up I will be sure to reread all of this great advice, and utilize it in my city!
     
    By the way, the 10x I think is from the NAM addon. Browse the special options when you're installing it.

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    No problem pimp, do you have the NAM? (network add-on Mod)... it has a whole crap-load of traffic plug-ins that come with it, x5 capacity, x5 speeds x10 commute time, and more, I'm pretty sure you just download the NAM, and upon instalation it gives you the opprtunity to decide wich plugin you'd like to have, hope this helps ya slick, peace!

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    I also find this problem.  Or I get into it then don't like where I am headed and start over.  BUt I have found that I do grow my cities well.

     
    First of all I do use some cheats.  I like the Cash Trainer Park.  It's a little wooded 1x1 tree lot that when you click on it, it gives you 1 million simoleons. It can be found here:
     
     
    I also use some radical ordinace mods that can be found in the mod section.  My opinion on cheats is I am not playing for the money part of the game I play more for the aestetic part of the game.  To make a Utopian society.  In the end how my city looks is more important to me then how much money I am making.  But I will also say that if you do build following demand and not just make everything high density you will make money.  The radical ordinances I usually use are to encourage agriculture growth in the beginning and then to help with air/water/garbage pollution. 
     
    Then like imotepp I love to build farm lands.  I like to build little communities amongst the farm lands.   These towns are usually small communities.  Also like imotepp stated if you build slower and build farmlands its easier to destroy those when you need to grow more.  And you can make farms any unique look you want.  I zone a big 9x9 area then delete corners and different parts of it to come up with unique shapes.  I love having farms along a diagonal road.  I just think with all the great BSC farms out there and using the mod that stops the Maxis farms from appearing make for more realism plus alot of these farms look real nice.  I try to plan where my larger cities will be and grow to those areas.  Look on a map of the world the larger cities are usually port cities of some kind.  Because settlers found it easier to get to these places.
     
    I also try to plan my transportation network in advance though I may now try imotepp way of not connecting cities right away, that sounds a unique way to try it.  I use peg ponds and streams a lot in my cities to add some realism because then you can have water at any level.  One thing I have done recently which I liked was I made a small valley, dragged a road over and I got the bridge option which I then choose the covered bridge, used Peg's Pond kit around it and it looked like a scene out of the Bridges of Madison County.
     
    The biggest problem I find is I can never find a map I like and if I try to terraform my own I get frustrated.  My time is limited to play and to do that takes a long time.
     
    Hope this helps.
     

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    Tkicrh I'd like to compare cities with you when i learn how to post pics, I think we may be building in the same manner, wich is kinda cool, my lates idea for a journal includes building a region from the ground up, and upgrading highways from avenues and such, but not like I've seen, lets say your putting in a highway, it takes time for that type of thig to be built, so the idea is to tear down the avenue, and actually detour traffic throughout the process of upgrading roads, man I need to learn to post pics

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    Man you are on the ball with the links bro, i read the tut. ty for the link, I'm just having a pronblem figurin it out bro, I got one pic posted, a sketch i drew for a train station, but it was tiny an ya couldnt see it, its cuz i don't know what all that stuff means once you get into imageshack, I'll figure it out, I don't want folks helpin too much, it makes me stupider than I already am not learnin on me own matey, cheers for the help tho slick!

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    WOW nice region. I could never hand terroform. Just don't have have patience.
    I would say that you should start of by laying down highways and plan where you want your downtown to be. From there, start building your downtown, and add on more cities as suburbs.

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    One word: Practice!.

    I've had this game for two years now. I can safely say I've started and deleted over a thousand cities. I have several regions in my folder that offer different game plays. One region is for experimenting with game mechanics, another for aesthetics, another for realism. I delete old ones and start new ones whenever. It's all practice, baby.

    Pictured here is another region I started this past weekend, called West Flatlands. I intended to make a NYC-esque kind of city, and as you can see I started with Manhattan. The goal of this region was an extremely dense core surrounded by miles and miles of suburbs. It's working; I'm up to 913,000 sims by now.

    Never give up. Never surrender. (oh, and practice a lot- you'll discover your style soon enough.)

    startacity3by.jpg

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    I got this game on christmas 2003 and...i'm not tht good, although at least i improved. don't worry just keep trying! and also, don't depend on mods/ bats to succeed!

    I always build in the middle,or where there's lots of flat land first.

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    Date: 1/11/2006 3:46:28 PM Author: storms991 WOW nice region. I could never hand terroform. Just don't have have patience. I would say that you should start of by laying down highways and plan where you want your downtown to be. From there, start building your downtown, and add on more cities as suburbs.

     
    But I start in medium difficulty mode... I can't support the maintenance costs if I lay all the foundation of my bigger networks, such as avenues, railways, highways, etc.
     
    However, one thing i've tried recently, is using street tiles, sort of like this:
     
        X  X  X
      X  X  X
    X  X
      X
    X
      X
    X
      X
     
    seperated in sort of a checkerboard pattern, and I found it works amazingly well. Low maintenance costs, and when I plop down an avenue it goes down perfectly as I gridded it with those small street squares.
     
     
    And thank you again for the other replies, everybody.
     
     
     
    Oddball question. Since I don't want to make another thread. Can somebody tell me if there are any 'texture transition' lots available, that go for lots such as pegs pond and stream lots... so that you can go from the grass texture there, and a slow transition via a 1x1 tile or so into the games default grass?
     
    Another example is transitioning beaches into grass. Kind of modular too, so you can do those angles as well. I just think it'd be cool.

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    As far far as I'm aware, there aren't any transition peices that i know of, but, there is a trail park kit once installed it shows up in your Hospital menu, I'll try and find the link...

    I believe this is it: Meandering Bike Paths
     
    Under your Health sub-menu is where the pieces are, thaer are no transitions, but the green ground texture is the same i think as pegs, or pretty dang close. there is also a all grass 1x1 wich is useful, other than that, use god mode to spray trees around the pond tto make it blend better.

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    Practice and more practice.If it all goes down hill just blow it up and start over.As of today I have blown up over a 100 cities.So don't give up you might get it right someday.1.gif

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    What's the deal with Enviroment bar anyways?

     
    I just started a new city. The whole area is for the most part littered with thousands of trees(if it were RL, it'd be hundreds of thousands). I have barely begun development. Unpaused. Have about 5 dirty industry factories, a few homes, and a few commercial. I have just unpaused the game, and the enviroment is already almost all red. I don't get it. It shouldn't be this way!
     
     
    EDIT: for now it seems to be changing... we'll see.

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    I-D is a great filler for starters or slum lords but no good can come from it.Unless there is a awesome I-D Lot on STEX I tend to avoid it.1.gif
     
        

     

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    What I have found works well is I start on the city that is two tiles away from what will be the heart of my downtown. I make this an industrial city since industry is the early backbone to growth and start neighbours quickly. Sometimes I'll head further away from downtown and make farming villages. The point of not starting downtown is that you don't have the early demand to support what you want to do there so it's better to build outlying areas that aren't going to have skyscrappers but will support downtown growth. Saves you from massive demolition later. I head downtown only later on. However, if you're going for any kind of historical story or CJ this isn't the best idea.

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    While I also suffer from many of the same problems, I've recently been devising strategies to help me get up to speed. One of my favorites is building a region-wide transportation system, but not one that goes to every adjacent square in every city. I map out a route for a major road or railway, representing the push of a transportation system from a more civilized area, and I follow the terrain in a logical way to get to another edge of the region. The terrain will dictate this, and multiple routes may be made if so desired. I usually lay a railroad first, then make a road going along the same general route. Then I try to start a number of communities along that route in places that look like they might be good for communities, esp. near rivers and such. That's usually a big help when I might otherwise be scratching my head wondering where in the city square to begin building.

    Your map seems good for some farmland. The islands especially would work, but just use flat land and gradual slopes.
     
    I think the key is patience, though. You have to play and play. I usually make a backup of each region in its pristine state so I can play and try things and then start over if I don't like it. I think the best advice would be to start building and see where it takes you, identify the problems you encounter along the way, and then try to figure out solutions for the next try.

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    Date: 1/12/2006 8:32:10 PM Author: unseelie

     

    Your map seems good for some farmland. The islands especially would work, but just use flat land and gradual slopes.
     
    Exactly!!

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    I can only echo what everyone else is saying.

    I look at screenshots and LJs from some peoples' cities on here that are just awesomely beautiful and I get really jealous because I doubt I could produce anything that good.

    But it's just a ton of practice. You really have to play this game a huge amount of time to get those sorts of results. I've just about reached the stage where I'm happy that the region I'm developing has the potential to be effective and look good when I've worked on it a hell of a lot more. Patches of it look quite nice. Others look like crap right now.

    Even just to get a region that's working with transport links and reasonable commute times for jobs, takes a while -
    I agree it's best to look at your region before you do anything and try to envisage a natural looking transport network - rail and highway that fits in with your terrain (I often find mostly blank, flat maps the hardest to develop on because you're not bound at all by restrictions that sometimes make your choices easier.)

    Then there's two ways you can approach it - the organic way, starting at where you envisage your high-density downtown area will end up and slowly, gradually pushing your zones outward along your main transport routes, building them as you go.

    Or you can sorta develop each area bit by bit so that your downtown is mostly empty, expanding it as you need to when demand from your other areas / cities allows.

    And yeah - patience is the key, and if it's going wrong, blow it up. It's a good idea to take backups at various stages to make going back easier - when you're at a point where you're happy with how it's looking and are about to embark on a major expansion, back it up so you can restore it if needs be. Then you don't have to give up the whole region and hours of work in a huff like I have done many times.

    I can't count how many cities I've built then destroyed because it wasn't working right or it looked really lame.

    Anyone can build a region in this game - it's hard to build a good one though.

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