Alder Lake and Raptor Lake Intel processors, Windows 11 and SimCity 4 compatibility

[ohdude 2,353]

Hi There!!

Theoretically Windows 11 and Simcity4 are compatible. As far as I know, is not enough just installing SimCity 4. It is recommended to install the 4 Gb patch, SimCity 4 Launch Installer, and one of the many Directx Wrappers you can find at the link below. I don't know if anybody of here has a computer with Alder Lake o Raptor Lake processors who has been in trouble running SC4 but I am and I haven't found any solution yet. It is known that Intel has change the architecture of their new processors and i don't know how far SC4 can run well in those new processors.

Thanks for any comment or suggestion.

 

 

 

[rsc204 21,857]

6 hours ago, ohdude said:

It is recommended to install the 4 Gb patch, SimCity 4 Launch Installer, and one of the many Directx Wrappers you can find at the link below.

It should be noted that each of these has a very specific purpose, the 4GB Patch is recommended to all, but has nothing to do with compatibility. Likewise, depending on the setup used, a wrapper may not be 100% necessary, but this is more to do with your graphics card and legacy DirectX support than your CPU. I'll add, you don't need a launcher, in terms of compatibility it doesn't really do anything, which seems to be a common misconception.

6 hours ago, ohdude said:

I don't know if anybody of here has a computer with Alder Lake o Raptor Lake processors who has been in trouble running SC4 but I am and I haven't found any solution yet. It is known that Intel has change the architecture of their new processors and i don't know how far SC4 can run well in those new processors.

Well it's not like the architecture of CPUs from 10 years ago were anything like that of the Pentium III / 4 systems the game was designed for either. Honestly I can't think of any reason why these newer CPUs would struggle to remain compatible with SC4's code, if anything what will eventually cause problems is Windows or DirectX updates. CPUs by and large retain legacy compatibility, but of course older software like SC4 simply won't be able to make use of its full potential, having not been coded to do so. We're moving from the Multi-Core to Many-Core world now and SC4 will always remain locked to a single CPU core (without hideous instability). But even within that, you can't fully utilise a single core either, because the software wasn't coded to support various technologies that didn't exist when it was made, necessary to get the most out of it. In other words, from the perspective of SC4, legacy games/software, having a brand new CPU isn't going to improve performance much.

In any case, if backwards compatibility was a problem with a new CPU, you can bet the internet will be all over it. Case in point when Windows 10 removed the drivers needed to validate disc-based games like SC4, it basically turned 1,000's of old disks into coasters. Whilst they may not be shouting it from the rooftops, statistically speaking SC4 is also popular enough that were the 13th Gen processors unable to work with SC4, we'd know about it already, because there will be people with new PCs somewhere who want to play the game. Again, for SC4 the GPU in use is more important than the CPU in terms of compatibility, although thanks to DXWrappers, it's an easily resolved problem if you have it.

[ohdude 2,353]

@rsc204 Thank you very much to enlight me up a bit more about this question. Me, maybe as you and many others, we want SC4 be eternal and better.

[rivit 3,402]

I'd also note, that to my knowledge, things run fine on Win11 - in general it is not a revolution from Win10. Windows survives on backward compatibility.  Being forced to new hardware by the Win11 security requirement is a pain but you will have a faster CPU - so in principle that one core SC4 uses will be better.

My experience too is that AMD GPU Drivers (either AMD specific or just installed through Windows) have continued to work without problems as they continue support for older DirectX or internally redirect to later DirectX versions. 

I have only had to specifically install some additional DirectX runtimes (the Jun 2010) for my own development work, or for old apps that have been bound to a particular older DirectX.dll, but SC4 doesnt need it.

But, while I'm not yet on Win11, I've been from win8 to 10 on this machine (10years) without ever having to do anything special to run SimCity4 (or 3,or 2) as they were designed, and I expect the same on Win11.

It is possible, of course, that new GPUs and their drivers will start to drop some DirectX support before long - but I imagine there would be a noisy reception to such a move if made wholesale right now.  It is current standard to support DX9,10,11 and 12. If your card does not support DX9 you may have to use a wrapper.

Intel GPUs (Gen12,13) support DX9 through internal mapping to Direct12 - which is a Microsoft dll  (d3d9on12.dll) - in Win10 and 11 for this purpose. It may not be perfect as yet.  I imagine we will see this become a standard for other manufacturers too, after its proven, as legacy support this old (20yrs) is something they would all like to drop (even if it is frozen in Drivers).

[ohdude 2,353]

Thanks @rivit. I've just checked the "... Apps/Pc-config-log" file and found D3D9on12.dll specified as a driverName:

 

I don't know what is happening but i'm still having CTD before region view load,  just when SimCity 4 big logo ends. I've patched the game with 4Gb Patch, I 've set it up as"C:\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe Edition\Apps\SimCity 4.exe" -CustomResolution:enabled -r1920x1080x32 -w -d:DirectX -Cursors:fullcolor -Intro:off -CPUPriority:high -CPUCount:1. Narzoul DDraw doesn't works on this computer. And I have the SC4Fix.dll in plugins folder. Anybody has an idea about where the CTD comes from? (I don't have a GPU installed, just 13th intel cpu with integrated graphics card).

[rsc204 21,857]

So if I've understood things correctly, D3D9on12.dll is essentially itself a DXWrapper, only supplied directly by Microsoft rather than used as a third party addon.

Now I realise you have a specific problem, can we check a few things. I am assuming here this is a new computer and you have done a clean installation of SimCity 4 using the installer to do so. If that's not the case, then please do clarify things.

If SC4 fails to start, the point at which is fails is very important in terms of working out why it is happening. What specifically is happening when the Splash Screen (Logo) switches to the Region View, that's the point when DirectX has to render graphics for the first time, note the initialisation process happens earlier however. Therefore the obvious conclusion is that your system doesn't support the correct legacy DX modes needed to run SC4, although it's not the only potential cause. That would be a bit of a bummer, because it could well be MS's solution that Intel have adopted, (no doubt so will NVidia and ATI at some point), may have problems with SC4.

I see you've set the following (is that in addition to using the Launcher):

5 hours ago, ohdude said:

-CustomResolution:enabled -r1920x1080x32 -w -d:DirectX -Cursors:fullcolor -Intro:off -CPUPriority:high -CPUCount:1.

Can I ask why you've chosen these options? I see people setting these things because some 'guru' on the internet or 'most popular' post tells them to do so, but if that person gives no explanation of what these actually do, or the options some might need, chances are they are just giving you the settings that worked for THEM.

For example, DirectX is the default mode of SC4 as is using fullcolor cursors, neither command does anything in practise unless you've altered the defaults. Likewise -CPUPriority:high simply does not work, though many refuse to accept it, it's ridiculously easy to verify for yourself it's not actually being activated. Nor is it helpful in any way either on a modern multi-core system, like it might have been 20 years ago when a computer had only one core.

So the first thing I'd change would be to switch -w (Windowed Mode) to -f (Full-Screen Mode). Your graphics driver uses a different method to render graphics under each mode, but older DX games were designed to be run in Full Screen, so generally speaking it's more compatible, but it is worth trying both if one doesn't work for you. If you've installed any Plugins (Mods), until you can get the game to properly launch, these should be temporarily removed. Then ditch the SC4 Launcher for the moment, another potential source of complications, and launch from the shortcut with the following command:

-CustomResolution:enabled -r1920x1080x32 -Intro:off -CPUCount:1 -f

The order of these commands doesn't matter, I've just kept those you probably won't need to alter to the left, so it would be easier to make subsequent edits. Anyhow with the alternate mode is the same problem occurring? If that still gives CTDs, next you should trying using SC4's software renderer, which removes DirextX & your GPU from the equation:

-CustomResolution:enabled -r1920x1080x32 -Intro:off -CPUCount:1 -f -d:software

If that doesn't help, then I would try disabling audio too, some modern Audio Cards have been known to cause problems.

-CustomResolution:enabled -r1920x1080x32 -Intro:off -CPUCount:1 -f -audio:off

Ideally you want to try all combinations of the three commands we are changing here, hopefully one will enable the game to load. But report back what happens and hopefully it will be clear where the problem is coming from.

5 hours ago, ohdude said:

I don't have a GPU installed, just 13th intel cpu with integrated graphics card).

GPU = Graphics Processing Unit, a term for the chip on a Graphics Card that is equivalent to its CPU, so you do have one, it's just known as an Integrated or iGPU. That's not necessarily a bad thing, the latest Iris XE models, (shipping with 12th/13th gen processors), are actually as much power as any normal person would need.

8 hours ago, rivit said:

It is possible, of course, that new GPUs and their drivers will start to drop some DirectX support before long - but I imagine there would be a noisy reception to such a move if made wholesale right now.  It is current standard to support DX9,10,11 and 12. If your card does not support DX9 you may have to use a wrapper.

Anecdotally from what I see on the forums here, NVidia started dropping some legacy support with the 10xx series cards. It also never helped that Optimus used in laptops, almost always fails to run legacy games under the dedicated GPU, due to weird driver restrictions. In those cases a Wrapper has become pretty much mandatory to play SC4 and dgVoodoo2 is by far and away the most easily configurable Wrapper. SC4 compatibility is complicated because in reality it runs under DirectX 7 APIs, not DirectX 9, although through the use of compatibility modes for DX7 under DX9 it is considered DX9 compatible. But compatibility modes don't always 'stack', which might perhaps explain why MS's wrapper might not work here? Likewise if this is a new method, it may be specific support is needed under 3rd party wrappers to work with these newer cards? But for certain things are shifting in the graphics world towards a point where running SC4 is getting harder on newer systems.

[rivit 3,402]

RSC204 got in while I was writing - I agree with his comments. Also have some thoughts on pinning it down.

3 hours ago, ohdude said:

i'm still having CTD before region view load

You're going to have to pin this down by removing variables:

• If you use an empty plugins will it behave? If it still karks it's probably not mod/content related but may be a GPU/DirectX/Config thing.
• You could also try starting it directly by double clicking on the exe in Explorer - this is a fast bypass for your startup settings.  I'm thinking Cursors may be iffy.
• Try running it unpatched using the .bu.exe that the patch should have created. Really, its just about removing things to get it to start. You can then work from there.
• Can you post the whole config.log.txt as there are questions too if the GPU part of the Card is correctly recognised by the sgrRules  

Also see if you can find a crash log in SC4/Apps or look in the Windows\System Configuration\Event Viewer (RH Mouse menu off Taskbar) for a crash report.

[ohdude 2,353]

@rsc204@rivit

• I use to play at windowed mode at 1920x1080 because my monitor has a default resolution of 2560x1440 and if I play at 1920x1080 at full mode the visual quality is less. Playing at full mode mode at 2560x1440 causes some glitches at regional view that i don't like.
• I've tried playing at software rendered mode and is posible with no CTD. So, the problem occurs when playing at hardware rendered windowed and full mode. (my interest is playing at hardware rendered mode at windowed mode).
• I've tried -audio:off command and problem still occurs at hardware rendered windowed and full mode.
• When I installed SC4, the desktop shortcut of SC4 automatically had -CPUCount: 1 command line.
• I don't have any crash report file at SC4/Apps nor in Windows\System Configuration.
• I've tried DDrawCompat from narzoul and is gaving me problems like: "Could not initializate DDraw".

 

• DDrawCompat-SimCity 4 file
  • 105c 15:48:15.642 Process path: C:\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe Edition\Apps\SimCity 4.exe
    105c 15:48:15.642 Environment variable __COMPAT_LAYER = "DWM8And16BitMitigation WinXPSp3 HighDpiAware RunAsAdmin"
    105c 15:48:15.642 Loading DDrawCompat dynamically from C:\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe Edition\Apps\DDRAW.DLL
    105c 15:48:15.644 DDrawCompat loaded successfully
    105c 15:48:15.644 Installing display mode hooks
    105c 15:48:15.645 Installing registry hooks
    105c 15:48:15.645 Installing Direct3D driver hooks
    105c 15:48:15.645 Installing Win32 hooks
    105c 15:48:15.701 Installing DirectDraw hooks
    105c 15:48:15.702 Installing Direct3D hooks
    105c 15:48:15.706 Installing GDI hooks
    105c 15:48:15.727 Finished installing hooks
    105c 15:48:16.296 ERROR: Failed to create the real primary surface: 0x80070057
    105c 15:48:16.298 ERROR: Failed to create the real primary surface: 0x80070057
    105c 15:48:16.300 ERROR: Failed to create the real primary surface: 0x80070057

 

• PC-config-log:

  • Log generated on 2/11/2023, 16:11

    Flags
    -----
    hardwareDriver = false
    DXT = true
    fullscreen = true
    MMX = true
    FPU = true
    backingStore = true
    forcedFSAA = false

    Strings
    -------
    userName = Usuario
    appName = SimCity 4
    version = 1.1.641.0
    osVersion = Windows NT 5.1
    computerName = PC
    CPU = GenuineIntel
    sglDriverName = Software
    sglDriverVersion = 1.0
    driverName = D3D9on12.dll
    driverVersion = 10.0.22621.608
    cardName = Intel(R) UHD Graphics
    cardVersion = Vendor: 8086, Device: a780, Board: 88821043, Chipset: 0004
    cardIdentity = Intel(R) UHD Graphics
    soundDriverName = Unknown
    soundCardName = Unknown
    buildType = Release

    Numbers
    -------
    cpuSpeed = 3417
    memory = 1024
    freeMemory = 1024
    screenWidth = 1600
    screenHeight = 1200
    screenBPP = 16
    videoMemory = 128
    textureMemory = 128
    textureStages = 1
    bogoFPS = 0
    bogoMPPS = 0

    Rules
    -----
    applying Sound
    applying high sound detail
    applying City Detail and Day/Night Settings
    applying City Detail and Day/Night Settings>
    applying high computer power
      option 9 = 3
      option 13 = 1
      option 15 = 3
    applying Texture Quality and Building Variety Settings
    applying Texture Quality and Building Variety Settings>
    applying high memory
      option 3 = 3
      option 14 = 3
    applying Variable Speed Automata
    applying default
      option 10 = 1
    applying Standard software
      option 0 = 1
      option 1 = 1
      option 2 = 1
      option 4 = 0
      option 5 = 0
      option 8 = 1
      option 7 = 0
      option 6 = 0
      option 11 = 0
      option 12 = 0
    applying Standard software>
      option 0 = 2
    applying Standard software>>
      option 4 = 1

    Options
    -------
    Visual Effects       current:   2 recommended:   2
    Cars/Sims            current:   2 recommended:   1
    Shadows              current:   2 recommended:   1
    Atmospheric effects  current:   1 recommended:   1
    Water effects        current:   1 recommended:   0
    Software/Hardware    current:   0 recommended:   0
    Cursor               current:   1 recommended:   0
    VariableSpeedAutomata current:   1 recommended:   1
    Translucent UI       current:   1 recommended:   1
    Graphic Detail       current:   3 recommended:   3
    Building Load Speed  current:   3 recommended:   3
    Texture Quality      current:   3 recommended:   3

    Properties
    -------
    forcesoftwaredriver = false
    renderdynamicview = true
    renderstaticview = true
    renderwatereffects = true
    rendercloudsandfog = true
    forcepointsampling = false
    forcebilinear = false
    forcenoalphablend = false
    forcenoalphatest = false
    rendershadows = true
    renderdecals = true
    usesecondstage = false
    forcedebugtexture = false
    renderparticleeffects = true
    renderflorashadows = true
    renderterrain = true
    showupdateregions = false
    usecursoreffects = true
    drawlottextures = true
    drawlotfoundations = true
    drawlotwalls = true
    forcetexturerepeat = false
    usescreenshake = true
    renderui = true
    useupdaterectclipping = true
    usevertexbuffers = true
    showboundingboxes = false
    useoverlayculling = true
    rendersnapshot = false
    noaddsigned = false
    nopartialbackingstorecopies = false
    usescreenflash = true
    renderautomata = true
    preferopaque = false
    displayalertborders = true
    drawlotopaquetextures = true
    useviewcleanup = false
    doautozoomandrotationchanges = true

    viewoffsety = 0
    viewoffsetx = 0
    texturebits = 32
    lodoffset = 0
    shadowdebug = 0
    maxparticlestarget = 10000
    particlelodoffset = 0
    effectprioritylevel = 5
    backingstoremaxzoomall = 5
    backingstoremaxzoombuildingsprops = 5
    backingstoremaxzoomterrain = 5
    backingstoremaxzoomflora = 5
    shadowquality = 2
    minvehiclezoom = 3
    minpedzoom = 4
    cursortype = 1
    depthoffset = 2
    debugtexture = 0
    dirtyrectmergeframes = 1
    sounddetail = 2
    buildingvariety = 2
    buildingloaderspeed = 1
    modellodoffset = 0
    stringtexturecachesize = 1024

    particleeffectslod = 5
    splattexturescale = 50
    texbindmaxfree = 4
    particledensity = 1
    particledamping = 0
    particlescale = 1
    lightingupdatedelta = 0,0001
    shadowmodelthreshold = 12
    demolishmodelthreshold = 12
    rendermodelthreshold = 6
    rendermodelthresholdscroll = 40
    particlesizethreshold = 300
    maxvehiclepct = 1
    maxpedpct = 1
    opaqueuialphavalue = 0,55

• I've found that this topic may help but the solution is for who has a dedicated GPU:

   

[rsc204 21,857]

4 hours ago, ohdude said:

I've tried playing at software rendered mode and is posible with no CTD. So, the problem occurs when playing at hardware rendered windowed and full mode. (my interest is playing at hardware rendered mode at windowed mode).

So my initial assessment is probably correct, the CTD happens when trying to use the DirectX Renderer, but the game is unable to handle the graphics and so you get a CTD. That it works in Software Rendering tells us that this is a DirectX compatibility problem.

4 hours ago, ohdude said:

I use to play at windowed mode at 1920x1080 because my monitor has a default resolution of 2560x1440 and if I play at 1920x1080 at full mode the visual quality is less. Playing at full mode mode at 2560x1440 causes some glitches at regional view that i don't like.

I understand the compromise between the two, I play in 2k personally, the game looks much nicer, I can live with the Region View issues personally, but yes Windowed mode is a viable option.

4 hours ago, ohdude said:

When I installed SC4, the desktop shortcut of SC4 automatically had -CPUCount: 1 command line.

This tells me you bought your copy from GoG, they are the only seller who've added this almost universally necessary line by default. Without it the game is incredibly unstable, but none of this is related to your particular problem.

4 hours ago, ohdude said:

I've tried DDrawCompat from narzoul and is gaving me problems like: "Could not initializate DDraw".

So in trying to get Hardware (DirectX) Rendering working, I would advise trying another Wrapper, there are quite a few. dgVoodoo2 is probably the easiest to setup and seems pretty reliable. I'm using that and ElishaCloud's wrappers, both work fine with older Intel 4600 GPUs and my NVidia.

It is possible as I mentioned before, this new system of communicating backward compatibility, may lead to problems. For example perhaps existing wrappers need updating to support the functions provided by d3d9on12.dll on the GPU side? But in theory this MS .dll does much the same thing as a Wrapper, which is to convert calls from the game in DX9 standards, so they run on the equivalent supported function on a DX12 system. So it could simply be that the official one, plus DDrawCompat simply aren't working well with your setup in particular. In any case, there really isn't a lot more you can try, since I am very confident we've found the source of the problem.

[ohdude 2,353]

Well, now I see two possible solutions. 1 can be trying dgVoodoo2 and the other one has to wait until I get a dedicated GPU...

[rsc204 21,857]

Well trying a few free downloads is a heck of a lot cheaper than buying a dedicated GPU, so I know which one I would try first.

I sympathise however, when I got my HD 4600 system in 2013 I had intended to just use the integrated card, but there were many problems with using it for SC4 and a small number of other legacy titles. That said, newer titles fared much better and in my case I really had no particular need or use for a dedicated GPU, with the exception of playing SC4. In that case it was driver issues, which in fairness to Intel were updated in 2015/2016 and since then work reasonably well. I of course did not know this and at the time Wrappers weren't a well known thing, so I dropped 140€ on a GTX 750ti.

But things are more complicated in 2023, as previously mentioned you may find newer NVidia and ATI cards suffer from similar problems and many users of these are having to resort to using Wrappers too. Assuming all you want is to play SC4 well, you really don't need to be paying for a new GPU, prices today are ridiculous, for 140€ you might get a discreet GT series card, but it's in reality less powerful than the Iris XE chip you've paid for already. You do pay for the iGPU, F model CPUs come without them and are cheaper. Frankly you would be well served by any GPU from the last 10 years, socket compatibility shouldn't be a problem, you'd save a bundle and more likely have a card which properly supports the legacy features you need.

[ohdude 2,353]

Recently I installed SimCity 4 in a PC with intel core i7-3770 CPU 3,4 GHz, 1TB SSD (SATA 6, 510-560 MB/s), 16 Gb Ram and Nvidia Geforce GT 640 3gb and the game ran so well, and the dedicated graphics card was recognized by the game and it runs with a very smooth visual quality. Nvidia Geforce GT 640 is quite good but difficult to find nowadays. Geforce GT 740 may be a good option but i only have evidence of the GT 640.

[rivit 3,402]

This landed in one of my feeds just now:   

 Nov22 Windows Update may cause problems on Intel GPUs

dont think its directly relevant @ohdude because I think your driver version is OK but you never know - and I would expect a new Intel Driver/MS fix before long as a result anyway.

[ohdude 2,353]

Thanks @rivit!!

I'm having troubles running 3dsMAX 2017 in W11 as well. I'm thinking running SC4 and 3dmax in a virtual machine with W10. Let's see how it works.

For BAT designing and renderizing new 13th gen of intel's processors can be useful because BAT4Max in 3dsmax 2017 with mental ray uses CPU Power for renderizing.

[ohdude 2,353]

Updating info about how its going about this issue:

I've reinstalled windows 10 and the same problemas of Windows 11 are persisting. So i think the problem may be caused by the IGPU intel UHD and its controller (which is updated and working fine according to Windows device administrator).

I don't know why but game is running without CTD while loading in OpenGL mode: "C:\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe Edition\Apps\SimCity 4.exe" -Intro:off -d:OpenGL -CustomResolution:enabled -r1920x1080x32 -CPUCount:1 -CPUPriority:high -f

Game goes to CTD if it is set up as DirectX: "C:\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe Edition\Apps\SimCity 4.exe" -Intro:off -d:DirectX -CustomResolution:enabled -r1920x1080x32 -CPUCount:1 -CPUPriority:high -f

Shadows are set up High but i don't know why it doesn't look like high shadows.

Playing with some HD plugins like HD textures generates CTD.

 

[rsc204 21,857]

On 19/02/2023 at 11:25 AM, ohdude said:

For BAT designing and renderizing new 13th gen of intel's processors can be useful because BAT4Max in 3dsmax 2017 with mental ray uses CPU Power for renderizing.

So does 3DSMax 2011 under Windows 7, in fact what would give that a boost would be if the renderer could also take advantage of your GPU for some extra processing. I believe this may be possible, but for certain CPU-based rendering has been the norm for a while. Considering that's one of just two activities that can bring my i7 4790k to it's knees, having a more recent (powerful) CPU would clearly speed things up. However, just as with utilising your GPU, to really fully utilise a recent Core i or similar many-core processor, requires that the application is coded to make use of all the additional cores. In 2017 the landscape hadn't yet shifted to many-core code, if we consider the first multi-core core2 duo/quad systems, it was almost 10 years before most software could actually take advantage. Why often having the dual-core parts with faster clock speeds was better for performance than a quad-core which if all cores were running at max, was in theory capable of better overall performance.

11 hours ago, ohdude said:

I don't know why but game is running without CTD while loading in OpenGL mode: "C:\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe Edition\Apps\SimCity 4.exe" -Intro:off -d:OpenGL -CustomResolution:enabled -r1920x1080x32 -CPUCount:1 -CPUPriority:high -f

Game goes to CTD if it is set up as DirectX: "C:\Maxis\SimCity 4 Deluxe Edition\Apps\SimCity 4.exe" -Intro:off -d:DirectX -CustomResolution:enabled -r1920x1080x32 -CPUCount:1 -CPUPriority:high -f

This fingers DirectX directly, the fact that you can get the game working using OpenGL, means that somewhere you are missing something needed for backwards compatibility. Note back when I first got my 4th gen i7, I wanted to use the HD4600 iGPU, only two games I had caused problems with that, SC4 and Doom 3, everything else worked great, although I freely admit I'm not running anything that punishing. This was in essence because those two titles have specific requirements from DirectX, that I guess the other games did not. In respect of SC4, a number of the ways they used DirectX, were not so common and DirectX has long since done away with such APIs/functions. Backwards compatibility is only as good as the Drivers for your hardware, seemingly a reoccurring problem with Intel GPUs, though for fairness I should state two things. First that Intel did eventually fix the issues with my HD4600 and other Intel cards, the problem was it took over 2 years for such a driver update in my case, like it's OK to just not play my favourite game for that long in the interim. Secondly, this time around the problems are no longer unique to Intel, NVidia and ATI have no interest in spending resources (money) on supporting things a tiny percentage of their users need or care about. So it's no surprise that of late, all three vendors have removed legacy support or done things which negatively affect it. DirectX 7 is archaic and DX9 which is the last fully compatible version, is pretty much archaic now too. But, the change outlined by Rivit, totally explains for me why the sudden change after Intel GPUs worked for years with SC4. Because I guess MS aren't focusing on very old games, but are targeting backwards compatibility for DX9-11, which are the most commonly used versions. The question is if or when they will update their new compatibility layer, because as of now it seems the DXWrappers have yet to be made compatible with the change. I suspect eventually this will be fixed, but when is eventually and are you prepared to live with it in the interim and how much is it worth to fix this sooner, is the question you have to ask yourself.

On 12/02/2023 at 11:11 PM, ohdude said:

Nvidia Geforce GT 640 is quite good but difficult to find nowadays. Geforce GT 740 may be a good option but i only have evidence of the GT 640.

Sorry to be so blunt, but it's not a good card at all, nor are the GT line of cards generally, they are not intended for gaming at all, rather to add an extra display or two. Literally they are aimed at the same people who would use an iGPU, the only benefit here is they are compatible with SC4 and because SC4's needs are so little, it works great with SC4. But this is only true if you have some specific needs, since the HD4600 can run 3 4K displays, GT cards really shouldn't exist any more, it's a madness that normal users would pay for one frankly. Especially considering some high end Iris XE chips can take on the GTX line to a point.

I have a GT630 card myself, it was in my partner's system which didn't have an iGPU, it cost around 70€ though, which was expensive for something that couldn't be used by most games. Worse, NVida now charge ridiculous prices for the GT series cards, they are frankly a total rip-off performance wise, you are better off (usually) with an iGPU instead.

Anyhow, that doesn't matter so much if you are willing to buy a second hand card, because the 2nd hand market reflects the poor performance of the GT series, so you would likely pay less than you would for a GTX series card and if it's only for SC4, a GT is all you need. Since we know the 6xx series cards are fine, if you can't find one, I'd be confident that 7-9 series cards would also work as well. For example I have used a GTX 750ti and then a GTX 960 under Windows 7 without any major problems, although the later was much more difficult to get working well. I have to say, at just over 50€ these days I would seriously consider a GTX 750ti, it's a great card and balances power consumption very well (one of the first Maxwell GPUs) with performance. That said, you could just buy whatever you can find that's cheap, anything from 2010 or later (GTX series) or from ATI, should work great, you could probably get something for $10-$20 easily. BUT, you need to ensure Windows 11 drivers/support exist for that card or it may be a problem.

Now comes the part that sucks, there is a possibility changes in Win11 or DirectX itself will still mean you have this problem regardless. I can't be certain either way without seeing it in action, but it is something you should keep in mind, because dropping hundreds on a GPU to play SC4 is both a waste of money initially and in the vastly increased electricity costs you'll have running it instead of the power sipping iGPU. Whilst you could be talking no more than $30-$40 a year if you use your PC a lot (note these estimates were published long before the current surge in Electricity pricing), it's something that often isn't considered. Just like how if you drive a V8, no matter how carefully you do so, you will always use more fuel than a smaller engine with less cylinders.

11 hours ago, ohdude said:

Shadows are set up High but i don't know why it doesn't look like high shadows.

Typical for Intel GPUs, regardless of other settings, the one thing they struggle with is the system SC4 uses for shadows. However, I wouldn't rule out it being a quirk of OpenGL either, at least yours display correctly, even if not with the expected detail.

11 hours ago, ohdude said:

Playing with some HD plugins like HD textures generates CTD.

Textures used in game which are beyond 256x256px in size are only supported when using DirectX. Not sure why, but neither OpenGL nor Software rendering was coded to work with them, so if you try you get a CTD.

However, if you have loaded the game successfully, i.e. the game doesn't immediately crash upon loading, this issue is almost certainly not the use of HD textures.

[ohdude 2,353]

Ok @rsc204 @rivit

I've installed DgVoodoo 2 and set it up as @rsc204 recommend in this comment:

https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/760434-pc-too-powerful-to-run-sc4/?tab=comments#comment-1749453

and now shadows problem are solved:

 

The next step is to install all the plugins i want, even HD textures and NAM. Let's see.

Thanks again for your assistance @rivit @rsc204