Help with creating a TE Lot (for HRW)

[rsc204 21,860]

3 minutes ago, atsf189 said:

I picked a great building to use as first mod. Lots of complicated stuff with just altering one thing.

I rather think you picked a hideously difficult first mod to create, this kind of editing requires a really good understanding of file types, how IDs link together and things that took me years to learn.

But if you intend to keep editing models in this manner, it's not easy stuff. Whereas if you could make a new model which included your sign, like the lights, you could probably 'stick' it onto the current model using the Lot Editor. Of course learning how to do that isn't a 20m job either, but the ability to make even basic models once learnt, would be far quicker and simpler to utilise. Few people do this kind of modding, because it's a ton of work and doesn't always work so well. So congratulations on getting this far frankly.

8 minutes ago, atsf189 said:

I find the day texture and then normally within 10 IID numbers I am finding a 8xxx the first numbers are completely different.

You are only looking for matching numbers, so if the other 7 digits don't match, these are not the textures you are looking for, keep going. The ID ordering is in Hex and it may seem like it 'wouldn't be there', but I bet you if you keep checking carefully one digit (starting on the left) at a time, i.e. find the first entry starting with a 1, then look for 1F, then scroll to 1F4, 1F42 and finally 1F428, only then should you start looking at the last three digits to find your match (example of the first texture). Sadly, this laborious process needs to be repeated until you've every texture you need, I know of no way to automate them all out of hiding.

[atsf189 460]

Well thanks again.

I am finding the exact match but with an 8 fifth digit.

Just wondering how the game works. What data

in the S3D file tells the game to pick either night or day textures?

[rsc204 21,860]

I tried something to semi-automate the process, using GoFSH, I found all the 0x1F42 textures and managed to export them en-masse, however that includes a lot of textures you might not need.

Anyhow, I documented the process, which goes like this:

 

1 hour ago, atsf189 said:

Just wondering how the game works. What data

in the S3D file tells the game to pick either night or day textures?

It's nothing to do with the S3D's, the game simply knows if a set of matching textures, but with 8 for the 5th digit exist, to 'switch them on', if they don't, it assumes none are present. So in essence, it's simply all linked by the use of IDs.

[atsf189 460]

rsc204

I think I finished the Lot.

Could you see if it works. I would like to put it in the download area if it looks ok.

You must have NAM 42 installed. This only works with the Hybrid Rail system.

I made a dependencies file so you should not have to download anything except this file

Jim CarProp Pack 1.2          I have this but it will not upload it is 2MB and I am not sure where the link is.

Link for Jim Car Pack Prop ver1.2

Simtrak Station wTrain.7z

[Ulisse Wolf 4,444]

3 hours ago, atsf189 said:

rsc204

I think I finished the Lot.

Could you see if it works. I would like to put it in the download area if it looks ok.

You must have NAM 42 installed. This only works with the Hybrid Rail system.

I made a dependencies file so you should not have to download anything except this file

Jim CarProp Pack 1.2          I have this but it will not upload it is 2MB and I am not sure where the link is.

Simtrak Station wTrain.7z

There are problems with the TE Switches, Capacities and Rep 16 (LTEX is just a review advice)

TE Switches

TE switches are correct but all that part related to the railway is missing. HRW or Hybrid Rail combines rail traffic with monorail traffic. So to take full advantage of the HRW I advise you to put the switches related to the rail. (Simple. Copy switches from HSRP Transit Hub)(If you only want monorail I suggest you specify in the LTEX)

Capacities

Same problem as before. The values of the railway are missing and there are wrong calculations. Following the formula of Z1 (You can retrieve the parameters here) the station has a capacity of 146000

Rep 16

The Rep 16 of this station is completely wrong. For HRW you have to use this REP 16

0x5DA4001F

LTEX

I recommend that you perform a small revision in the LTEX of the station. I noticed that there are errors

 

In conclusion I recommend that you perform these fixes for this station. I have not performed in-game tests of this TE Lot but there are errors that prevent this lot from having informal approval from MTA (Mass Transit Authority - NAM Team). 

If you have any problems or clarifications with HRW (TE Switch, Rep 16 and Capacity) contact me here or on discord

 

 

[atsf189 460]

I am in no way an expert but I left the rail traffic off on purpose so this would be a dedicated High speed rail network.

I did not want the station to generate regular passenger trains like the Ground HS Station that is in NAM.

In the US trains that run over 125MPH on class 6 track do not normally share with regular passenger trains that only run 90MPH.

If add these fixes I believe it will produce regular passenger trains correct?

[Ulisse Wolf 4,444]

Just now, atsf189 said:

I am in no way an expert but I left the rail traffic off on purpose so this would be a dedicated High speed rail network.

I did not want the station to generate regular passenger trains like the Ground HS Station.

If add these fixes I believe it will produce regular passenger trains correct?

Yes. HRW is not a real high-speed rail network. HRW serves to connect Real Railway (RRW) with the future Real High Speed Railway (RHSR). This is why HRW is the network that combines rail traffic with monorail traffic. 

So if you want to take full advantage of HRW you have to put the swtich related to rail traffic and correct the capacity.

If you only want monorail traffic you still have to add the swtich (Rail-Rail Out-In, Rail-Rail In-Out) because without these switches you break the most important feature of HRW or combine the rail traffic with that of the monorail (You must however specify in the LTEX that the station does not serve rail traffic)

It may seem strange but HRW is based on the European rail networks and also on the NEC (Northeast Corridor) as the speed of these networks is limited to 250 km / h. The high-speed rail network has a speed of 320 Km/h.

 

 

[atsf189 460]

Thank You

If a add the (Rail-Rail Out-In, Rail-Rail In-Out) it will not produce regular trains?

I am not real good with the transit switches, expert 25 year railroader computers not so much.

Would this be for all directions or just the direction of the monorail?

[Ulisse Wolf 4,444]

23 minutes ago, atsf189 said:

Thank You

If a add the (Rail-Rail Out-In, Rail-Rail In-Out) it will not produce regular trains?

I am not real good with the transit switches, expert 25 year railroader computers not so much.

Would this be for all directions or just the direction of the monorail?

This serves to ensure the correct functioning of HRW. It can generate rail traffic as long as there is demand on the network. (However it prevents you sims from using the rail network). And Yes. just the direction of the monorail

[atsf189 460]

 

On 3/21/2022 at 4:33 PM, ulisse said:

Capacities

Same problem as before. The values of the railway are missing and there are wrong calculations. Following the formula of Z1 (You can retrieve the parameters here) the station has a capacity of 146000

I did try to put 146000 into the sc4tools program but it will not take this number.

It only takes it if you remove a zero.

[Ulisse Wolf 4,444]

15 minutes ago, atsf189 said:

 

I did try to put 146000 into the sc4tools program but it will not take this number.

It only takes it if you remove a zero.

In the SC4Tool you have to go to Exemplar Editor 

Select File --->Open the building ---> Transit Switch Traffic Capacity ---> Edit Capacity

[atsf189 460]

This is an LTEXT question.

How do I change the number values.

I need the Passenger capacity to be 146,000 the cost may be wrong also.

Simtrak Hybrid Rail Grand Station with Bus Service

Lot Size: 3x8
Monthly Cost: #m:EA54D286#
Passenger Capacity: #d:4aa60ebc#
Created by RLD.

[CorinaMarie 29,858]

12 minutes ago, atsf189 said:

Monthly Cost: #m:EA54D286#
Passenger Capacity: #d:4aa60ebc#

These numbers point to properties in the building exemplar:

Adjust them here and they will automatically update when the LText is displayed in the game. Note that the Catalog Capacity is only for the display whereas the Cost is dual purpose for changing the cost as well as the display from LText.

[atsf189 460]

Should passenger capacity be Catalog or Transit switch capacity.

What is the difference between the two?

[CorinaMarie 29,858]

Both should be the same tho Cat is in hex and Tran is decimal. The difference is Cat is used to show via LText and the other is the capacity the station uses functionally.

 

32 minutes ago, atsf189 said:

Lot Size: 3x8

Also, unless you've relotted completely, this should be 8x3 since it's 8 cells wide and 3 depth.

[CorinaMarie 29,858]

Update: I notice some Maxis stations (and some of NAM's) have the same value between those two properties, yet others are different. For this I wonder if there's an underlying reason I'm not aware of.

We prolly need expert help. Calling @rsc204

[atsf189 460]

Ok thanks I will keep them the same. NAM says it is the max daily amount for the Transit switch.

I think that makes the most sense

I think I may be ready to upload now.

[rsc204 21,860]

18 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

Both should be the same tho Cat is in hex and Tran is decimal. The difference is Cat is used to show via LText and the other is the capacity the station uses functionally.

Indeed, the actual capacity used by the game is the TransitSwitchTrafficCapacity, whereas Catalogue Capacity is only useful if you intend to link to an LText file where the capacity of the lot will be 'picked up' by linking to this value. But essentially both should have the same figure...

6 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

I notice some Maxis stations (and some of NAM's) have the same value between those two properties, yet others are different.

If they are different, likely someone upped the actual capacity and for whatever reason failed to update the catalogue one to match. I think some tools auto-generate the latter or copy it from the template Buildings Exemplar, but if LTexts are not used, you can type the value manually into the Item Description and practically speaking the same information is present. I suppose for using multi-lingual LTexts, it means you can update many LTexts by updating just this property, because they were dynamically linked. But since many lots won't do this, like Maxis did or NAM/RTMT do, all of which support multiple languages, it's not absolutely necessary to use it.

[atsf189 460]

rsc204

Did you happen to look at my problem on the on the NAM support?

I still do not have that solved?

And thank you for the LTEXT info

[atsf189 460]

For a monorail station tracks north to south you should have

in monorail to monorail   north to south

out monorail to monorail   north to south

and should you also have

in pedestrian to monorail   north south east west

out monorail to  pedestrian   north  south east west

[rsc204 21,860]

10 hours ago, atsf189 said:

and should you also have

in pedestrian to monorail   north south east west

out monorail to  pedestrian   north  south east west

Think of Inside as being in the station and Outside being outside of the station, the latter includes passengers on transit vehicles in the station. So in order that any sim who arrives at the station as a pedestrian can 'enter' a monorail train, switches must exist for Pedestrians to 'switch' to Monorail, the same applies to all other network types served by the station. Likewise, a switch needs to exist for a passenger riding transit to 'alight' or get off and 'enter' the station. In this way, we don't need say a Monorail to Subway switch, however a Sim could arriver by Monorail, switch to a Pedestrian, 'walk from the Mono platform to the Subway', then switch from Ped to Subway. In other words, a Pedestrian 'inside' the station, can board any type of transit the station supports or leave the station.

For rail networks there tends to be a few special cases, Freight Trains only need to be able to enter and exit a station, otherwise freight trains won't be able to traverse your lot, but it would be illogical for other switches for it to exist, unless you are modding a freight station. Likewise whilst you might want to make a station able to accept Cars entering a station (Car -> Ped), it's rarely desirable to have the opposite switch. So whilst a Sim may drive to a station and 'park their car', when they arrive at their desired stop (transit), they will find 'the first car in parking lot' and continue their journey if the Ped -> Car switch is present. Most people would consider that behaviour weird, so it's rare to find that switch in a station.

[atsf189 460]

I think I had my in out backwards. It actually was correct in the Exemplar.

This is supposed to be for Hybrid Rail and be a bus stop. From what you said I could take sub > ped and ped > sub out because there is a not a subway station on the lot correct?

I am going to make two versions. I like to have only the electric train on the catenary. The other version has the no rail switches.

It looks like the other thing that the switch does is generate the transportation vehicles.

A simple monorail station would have

in----- monorail to monorail   north to south

out----- monorail to monorail   north to south

out----- pedestrian to monorail   north south east west

in ------monorail to  pedestrian   north  south east west

In the above what generates the monorail? Any of those 4 switches or just certain ones

Does this look correct for Hybrid Rail and a bus stop

 

 

[Ulisse Wolf 4,444]

1 hour ago, atsf189 said:

I think I had my in out backwards. It actually was correct in the Exemplar.

This is supposed to be for Hybrid Rail and be a bus stop. From what you said I could take sub > ped and ped > sub out because there is a not a subway station on the lot correct?

I am going to make two versions. I like to have only the electric train on the catenary. The other version has the no rail switches.

It looks like the other thing that the switch does is generate the transportation vehicles.

A simple monorail station would have

in----- monorail to monorail   north to south

out----- monorail to monorail   north to south

out----- pedestrian to monorail   north south east west

in ------monorail to  pedestrian   north  south east west

In the above what generates the monorail? Any of those 4 switches or just certain ones

Does this look correct for Hybrid Rail and a bus stop

 

 

There are actually errors in these switches. If you are creating a station with multiple transport networks you need to follow the swtich of HSRP Transit Hub. These switches have been tested several times and several times in the NAM - MTA team. Swtichs are a science in SC4 as if you put switches in the wrong position and some switches are missing they can only cause a lot malfunction. The fact that there is the question of having 4 PED-SUB switches is called "Enhanced Subway" which guarantees stability with the subway and the interaction between subway and other networks. Obviously if you want the lot not to have the subway then you have to remove all the switches inherent to the subway

For the question of parking the only switches you have to enter is this

OUT-IN | CAR - PED

Things get complicated if we talk about HRW <-> Subway converter (the subway simulates a tunnel for the HRW network) as we are going to combine the flow of railway and monorail in a subway network and vice versa.

 

My advice is to observe the TE Switches that are present in the following stations that are included in the NAM

 

HSRP Transit Hub - Hybrid Railway Transit Hubs by ulisse and Bipin - Hybrid Railway Union Station by ulisse

 

[atsf189 460]

ulisse

I used the Hybrid Railway Transit Hub switches and took out all the subway references.

What about the cost and the capacity. I know you said 146,000 originally. I looked at the formula and I could

not figure out how you got that. I came up with a lower number and this transit hub calls for 40,000. The lot is 8longx3wide.

I know this is not your intended use for hybrid rail but I like to have the electric trains separate from the other passenger and freight trains. I am going to offer 2 depots for people who want to use it this way. I will take out all the rail and freight switches for this depot.

When I do that does that change the cost and the capacity?

[atsf189 460]

1 hour ago, ulisse said:

HSRP Transit Hub

see above

they moved the post and I wanted to make sure you saw my question

[rsc204 21,860]

3 hours ago, atsf189 said:

What about the cost and the capacity. I know you said 146,000 originally. I looked at the formula and I could

not figure out how you got that. I came up with a lower number and this transit hub calls for 40,000. The lot is 8longx3wide.

It's complex, but every transit type that the station can use needs to be accounted for, a high number is safer than a low one, because if lots get overwhelmed (something around 4x capacity), they effectively shut down the entire networks that they support. So if you don't understand all the ins and outs, it's safer to just use the 146k figure given to you. 40k is actually lower than any of the Monorail stations included with the NAM, and doesn't even meet the standard minimums outlined here. I actually have a spreadsheet to calculate all these factors for me, but it's a pretty clunky method frankly.

Bear in mind, when you want to make things work more generally, you must account for all types of player. So if someone were using the Ultra Capacity NAM, CAM and had millions of sims in their city, they will need a much higher capacity than you might think would be needed. But there is no negative to giving any transit lot a higher capacity, literally it doesn't make the transit any more preferable to sims. But if you make it too low, that could cause a lot of problems, hence higher is always better.

[Ulisse Wolf 4,444]

3 hours ago, atsf189 said:

ulisse

I used the Hybrid Railway Transit Hub switches and took out all the subway references.

What about the cost and the capacity. I know you said 146,000 originally. I looked at the formula and I could

not figure out how you got that. I came up with a lower number and this transit hub calls for 40,000. The lot is 8longx3wide.

I know this is not your intended use for hybrid rail but I like to have the electric trains separate from the other passenger and freight trains. I am going to offer 2 depots for people who want to use it this way. I will take out all the rail and freight switches for this depot.

When I do that does that change the cost and the capacity?

HSRP Transit Hub is used as a reference for TE switches.

The capacity of the station is based on the formula of @z1 that it has elaborated. Calculating capacity is very easy. just read the documentation

[z1 566]

On 3/25/2022 at 3:49 PM, ulisse said:

HSRP Transit Hub is used as a reference for TE switches.

This is true only for stations that support large numbers of networks (typically more than three) passing through them.  For other types of stations, the HSRP transit switches will either be excessive, will reduce the functionality of the station, or simply will not work properly.

To find the correct TE switches for a given station, find the NAM station that most resembles it and copy the TE switches from the NAM station, adjusting them if necessary.  Paying attention to the number of networks supported by the station is key, as is whether the station has networks passing through them or just adjacent to them.  In the latter case, the BriPizza stations work as an excellent template.

(Note:  When I say "networks passing through them" (the TE lots), this is technically not correct, as networks don't pass through lots.  But it appears as if they do, and this terminology is fairly intuitive.)