The SimTropolis House of Worship

[horrorkid64 0]

Date: 12/30/2005 9:44:37 AM
Author: ephorex_77

Thank you for for compliment. A compliment from a persistent and articulate forumer is very welcome indeed (no sarcasm at all intended).

I failed however, to see how the Koran, the Muslim faith and their non-contradiction has anything to do with sola scriptura and the disproving thereof. I don't know how it is relevant, but perhaps you can explain it better next time.

Also, can you refute my arguments above regarding sola scriptura?? You merely stated that you didn't, not whether or not you could. Perhaps in your next post you could make that clear too. If you can, then please do so in the next post. If not, then please say so as well. It's good to receive feedback from comments one makes.

And I'm sorry (and perhaps you're thankful ) for the short post. I actually woke up specially to view your reply. I look forward to seeing your refutations, or lack thereof, in your next post regarding my argument against sola scriptura.

quote>

My point was that two kinds of reasoning can be logical within themselves, without refuting each other but contradicting with each other. Like Idealism vs. Pragmatism.

The Islamic teaching of the Koran is basically done with scripture (or at least that's my knowledge about it). The Arabic version of the Koran is the word of Allah and only by studying the Arabic version you study his words. This does not exclude teaching about it in words or reading translations - that can be helpful guidelines, but they are not the word of Allah.

So it's not basically necessary to be able to read to be of Islamic faith, but you will only be able to read Allah's words if you're capable of reading the Arabic language. If suddenly all people would lose their Arabic language skills, Allah would certainly think of something. Or God, for that matter.

I think I've previously forgotten about an important point about Christianity: prayer. God can communicate with people through prayer. So you don't even need a Bible, to establish a personal relationship with God - though it might help.

EDIT: I'm not sure if that was a rebuttal. Decide for yourself.

I guess I have to stop here for today, but I will leave with a quote:

Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. -- John 14:6 (NKJV)

quote>

Seems like the only way is through Jesus. Not having heard of him doesn't count, at least according to Jesus.

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

Okay Micah: do you have about 2 months of free typing time handy?

Revelation(no plural); is scientific and mathmatic, if you know where and how to look at it. A certain perspective is important; a very special spiritual perspective. If you do not have this, you may not understand Revelation.

 

I will tell you of Revelation IF,.......

 

You first tell me of the four Gospels and what they mean to you in detail.

 

Then We can tackle a deeper subject like Revelation

[Compromise 1]

I personally spend more time studying religion than really working out my belif's but I have drwan my own conclusions about the subject.

There are many prophets that have existed in the past. The main six are Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. The main western religions we know today are drawn from them (Christianity, Juadaism and Islam) and are all linked togther around the same belief's. Christianity says that Jesus was the son of God and the most inportant. Islam says that Muhammad was the most inportant as he was the last prophet so the seal of the prophets. Juddaism reconises them all but says that the Massia has not come yet.

 

I think they were all very inportant and all gave us a very inportant message from God. I can't really except that Jesus is the son of God. I agree more wth the Islamic point of view of which he was a messenger of God like the others were but still very inportnant.

 

Islam has grown into a religion because of it's history of which you must praise God and God only and that's why you won't find picture's of people in Mosque's since this could promote idology. I belive you should respect the prophets and at least show you agnoledge there existence but remember God himself is where there idea's come from.

 

Overall I belive life is a test and that at the end of it you will go to either heven or hell. You will go to heaven if you are a good person in life and give a good contribution to the world, accept other people's belive's and remain open minded depnding on your influences in life on the ultimate question. These are my belief's, what you belief in is completley 100% your choise and should be to everyone.

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. -- John 14:6 (NKJV)

Horror Kid: True Way of Life. three words(3)

 

 EDIT: Jesus is the intersessor(like a lawyer), The Father is the Judge. If Mohammed is your intersessor, then Jesus is not the only way of living forever. Which would make the above verse false. I cannot serve two masters.

 

[Micah 16]

Date: 12/30/2005 10:31:22 AM Author: frndofyaweh

Okay Micah: do you have about 2 months of free typing time handy?

quote>

Ummm... Yes, I do.

 

Anyways, is that a question? What do I think of the gospels?

 

    Well, out of all of them, Mark doesn't ever say that Jesus was Christ. That is what makes him different from the other gospels. Mark was kind of different from the rest of them. Even after Jesus' lifetime, Mark got Paul mad at him when Mark and his in-law, Barnabas, turned around in their journey and went straight back to Jerusalem. Mark (also known as John Mark and John) was also different because he actually adresses himself in his gospel... the man who fled away naked from Jesus is suppost to be Mark. Also, Mark is the smartest one out of all them... he had a great education. Anyways, just thought I'd add that in even though it doesn't have to do with what anyone is talking about. Yeah, I can ramble on and on for two months...

    Ok fine, I'll start talking about what everybody is talking about, but personally it is really gets boring after a while... Can some one just ask me a question so I can answer it... so at least I'm not bored all day long... (And don't tell me to stop posting in this thread if I think it is boring because I know someone will say that).

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

Well, don't look at me, Micah.

I am an energizer

 

 

EDIT: I got an in-depth question for you, Micah.

 

I already know the answer, but you must find it for us.

 

Tell us; what are each of the fours' primary occupations? Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

 

* search for a detail, friend?*

[the_new_simman 5]

Date: 12/30/2005 4:55:26 AM
Author: Ma8thew

If you kill someone you will go to hell, or spend a huge amount of time in pergatory.


If you have never heard of God and are a 'good' all around person you will go heaven or pergatory.


If you have never hear of God and are a bad person, you will go to hell.

quote>

So...if you are a brutal Christian murderer, you may get off with pergatory, but if you a kind caring atheist you go to hell. Hmmmmm.

quote>

You will go tob Hell. Murder = Hell. It as simple as that, if you break the ten commandments you will go to hell, unless you ask for forgivness. But, if you do murder someone, you will go to hell, yes.

[Micah 16]

Ok, sorry for the double verse, but I had to ask this because I want to see who has been really reading their Bibles here...

In the Bible (in the gospels),

 

Q. It says you are not allowed to do two things, what are they?

Q. What is the one thing that you cannot worry about?

 

(I'll tell you the answer until tomorrow or until someone answers it correctly... and if you use the internet to find the answer, then shame on you).

Edited: Sorry, I didn't see your question. Hold on, I'll answer you when I come back from getting my flu shot.

[Micah 16]

Date: 12/30/2005 10:54:00 AM Author: frndofyaweh

Well, don't look at me, Micah.

I am an energizer

EDIT: I got an in-depth question for you, Micah.

I already know the answer, but you must find it for us.

Tell us; what are each of the fours' primary occupations? Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

* search for a detail, friend?*

quote>

Occupations? Do you mean:

Matthew was directed towards the Jewish audience.

Mark was directed towards the Romans

Luke was directed towards the Greeks

and John was directed towards the Born-Again Christians?

 

If that is wrong, then try to make your question a little clearer (not being rude, just couldn't think of another way of saying it ). I'll think of a better answer when I come back to my computer...

 

 

[Abc987 3]

I'm Catholic, but I admit I don't go to church every Sunday

[Ma8thew 77]

Date: 12/30/2005 10:57:52 AM
Author: the_new_simman

Date: 12/30/2005 4:55:26 AM

Author: Ma8thew

If you kill someone you will go to hell, or spend a huge amount of time in pergatory.



If you have never heard of God and are a 'good' all around person you will go heaven or pergatory.



If you have never hear of God and are a bad person, you will go to hell.

quote>


So...if you are a brutal Christian murderer, you may get off with pergatory, but if you a kind caring atheist you go to hell. Hmmmmm.

quote>


You will go tob Hell. Murder = Hell. It as simple as that, if you break the ten commandments you will go to hell, unless you ask for forgivness. But, if you do murder someone, you will go to hell, yes.

quote>
Hmm, I didn't read your previous post properly, so apologies for that. Your statement about the ten commandments raised some questions for me though. If your parents were to abuse you, surely you would have the right not to honor them. It would be unjust for God to hold that against you IMO.

[the_new_simman 5]

Date: 12/30/2005 11:18:06 AM
Author: Ma8thew

Date: 12/30/2005 10:57:52 AM

Author: the_new_simman

Date: 12/30/2005 4:55:26 AM


Author: Ma8thew

If you kill someone you will go to hell, or spend a huge amount of time in pergatory.




If you have never heard of God and are a 'good' all around person you will go heaven or pergatory.




If you have never hear of God and are a bad person, you will go to hell.

quote>



So...if you are a brutal Christian murderer, you may get off with pergatory, but if you a kind caring atheist you go to hell. Hmmmmm.

quote>



You will go tob Hell. Murder = Hell. It as simple as that, if you break the ten commandments you will go to hell, unless you ask for forgivness. But, if you do murder someone, you will go to hell, yes.

quote>

Hmm, I didn't read your previous post properly, so apologies for that. Your statement about the ten commandments raised some questions for me though. If your parents were to abuse you, surely you would have the right not to honor them. It would be unjust for God to hold that against you IMO.

quote>

Off course you would have to disobey if they are abusive. It's clearly putting you in danger. That would not break the Honor thy mother and Father commandment.

God knows if your parents are abusive and they will be the ones going to hell, not you from escaping form them. This applies with any commandment, self defense murder, ect.

[SYM Productions 7]

I just had an idea, and I want people to comment... let us propose a reality where:

- there is undeniable proof that every religion's (god, spirit, whatever) exists

- there is undeniable proof that depending on how you think of post-death, that post-death experience will happen to you (e.g. Christians will go to Heaven or Hell, Buddhists will re-incarnate, etc.)

 

Would you accept this proof?  AGAIN, I am not implying this is the case.

 

- CDI_spy

[Meg 368]

Date: 12/30/2005 8:46:14 AM Author: ephorex_77

 

And of course, I suspect you whizzed by my arguments against sola scriptura or merely gave them a cursory glance. It seems that I'm constantly defending myself against new arguments while you merely throw new ones at me. How about if my arguments and refutation started to become acknowledged or refuted in turn?? This dismissal of my rebuttals seem to be victories to me seeing as the failure to rebutt something is normally taken as a sign of defeat. I assume you have nothing you can say in defence of my arguments.

quote>

Well, for me, that depends on the nature of the argument.   I, for one, thought your argument against sola scriptura was very interesting.  There were, and are, a variety of logistical issues making it unworkable.  My arguments against it are different but I thought yours made sense.

 

My early experiences have lead me to conclude that the Catholic church and the bible have been corrupted by man.  Whatever they were originally, they aren't that now.  They have been twisted by man for man's own political gain.

 

Which is why arguments that use Bible quotes don't work well for me.  I believe that there is wisdom in the Bible.  For instance, parables can be an effective way of teaching some lessons.  But using a bible quote to prove something, doesn't mean anything to me so those kinds of arguments fall flat when I read them.

[louisville327 0]

Date: 12/30/2005 1:00:45 PM
Author: SYM Productions

I just had an idea, and I want people to comment... let us propose a reality where:

- there is undeniable proof that every religion's (god, spirit, whatever) exists

- there is undeniable proof that depending on how you think of 'post-death', that post-death experience will happen to you (e.g. Christians will go to Heaven or Hell, Buddhists will re-incarnate, etc.)

Would you accept this proof? AGAIN, I am not implying this is the case.

- CDI_spy

quote>


Well, it's kind of difficult NOT to accept undeniable proof, isn't it? I mean, if it's undeniable, those who reject it are just kind of dumb, I suppose.

I can only imagine the chaos if all religions everywhere were suddenly proven true all at once. Pat Robertson's head would explode.

Date: 12/30/2005 1:11:52 PM
Author: SkiGeek

Which is why arguments that use Bible quotes don't work well for me. I believe that there is wisdom in the Bible. For instance, parables can be an effective way of teaching some lessons. But using a bible quote to 'prove' something, doesn't mean anything to me so those kinds of arguments fall flat when I read them.

quote>


I couldn't agree with you more.

[Meg 368]

Date: 12/30/2005 1:00:45 PM Author: SYM Productions

I just had an idea, and I want people to comment... let us propose a reality where:

- there is undeniable proof that every religion's (god, spirit, whatever) exists

- there is undeniable proof that depending on how you think of 'post-death', that post-death experience will happen to you (e.g. Christians will go to Heaven or Hell, Buddhists will re-incarnate, etc.)

Would you accept this proof?  AGAIN, I am not implying this is the case.

- CDI_spy

quote>

Well, that isn't proof but it is an interesting theory.  This theory has a name but I can't recall it at the moment.

 

Basically, it says that, after we die, we can perceive the true non-linear nature of reality, so multiple realities are possible.

 

or something like that.  it's been a while . . .

[Ma8thew 77]

Date: 12/30/2005 1:14:29 PM
Author: louisville327
I can only imagine the chaos if all religions everywhere were suddenly 'proven' true all at once. Pat Robertson's head would explode.

quote>
Just picturing that...

[+Guest]

noting on what skigeek said about how man has corrupted stuff, i feel language is also to blame in a way, as the people who have written newer versions of the bible (or any other holy book in this case) could have manipulated it when translating as the way i'm thinking is that those who translated it could get away with misinterpretating it for their own purposes (the original could have said a is good but the newer version says the opposite) and this could happen regulary so possibly today's version is no where near the original version

[Zelgadis 638]

Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian...

Is there anybody here who would like to discuss true comparative religion without a specifically western frame of reference?

Probably not. I expect this post to be ignored just like the others who did not mention Christianity, like Fischbob's and boggy1's were.

ISF

[Compromise 1]

Date: 12/30/2005 2:10:27 PM Author: tc13 noting on what skigeek said about how man has corrupted stuff, i feel language is also to blame in a way, as the people who have written newer versions of the bible (or any other holy book in this case) could have manipulated it when translating as the way i'm thinking is that those who translated it could get away with misinterpretating it for their own purposes (the original could have said 'a' is good but the newer version says the opposite) and this could happen regulary so possibly today's version is no where near the original version

 

This problem has been combated in one way by by Islam with holy books having to be traceable back to the original in some way or another or be destroyed. The writings have alao been devided into three catogries Qur'an (words of God), Hadith (words of Muhammad) and Sunnah (actions of Muhammad) to devide up there inportance. Other religions have also done similer things to try and stop inacuracey of which others can tell you better than I can since Islam is just currentley the religion I am studying.

 

Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian... 

Is there anybody here who would like to discuss true comparative religion without a specifically western frame of reference?

Probably not.  I expect this post to be ignored just like the others who did not mention Christianity, like Fischbob's and boggy1's were.

ISF

 

I am not ignoring you. Most people on this site are westerners so naturally Christianity is going to be the dominate religion here.

[Duke87 1,070]

Date: 12/30/2005 11:13:12 AM Author: jrhnemo I'm Catholic, but I admit I don't go to church every Sunday

Good for you! Don't let the church (or any other religious establishment) be the boss of you!

 

Seriously, people. religion is like alcohol. It's okay in moderation, but don't get drunk on it and let it ruin your life!

[the_new_simman 5]

Date: 12/30/2005 3:10:29 PM
Author: Duke87

Date: 12/30/2005 11:13:12 AM Author: jrhnemo I'm Catholic, but I admit I don't go to church every Sunday

Good for you! Don't let the church (or any other religious establishment) be the boss of you!

Seriously, people. religion is like alcohol. It's okay in moderation, but don't get drunk on it and let it ruin your life!

quote>

I would have to disagree with you here. How can it ruin you life? Most teachings of the Catholic church are great, be kind, loving, what's the problem with that. I, for the most part go to church every Sunday, and going to church every Sunday doesn't mean you obsessed or brainwashed.

Most of the gospels they read are very informative and teach you life lessons, its not all about Jesus and the history. Although the whole service is about Jesus.

You get much more things out of going to church like:
1)Respect
2)Well Being
3)All Around Nice Guy/Gal
4) and, add a bit of religious spice

[Meg 368]

Date: 12/30/2005 3:16:16 PM Author: the_new_simman

Date: 12/30/2005 3:10:29 PM Author: Duke87 Good for you! Don't let the church (or any other religious establishment) be the boss of you!

Seriously, people. religion is like alcohol. It's okay in moderation, but don't get drunk on it and let it ruin your life!

quote> I would have to disagree with you here. How can it ruin you life?

quote>

Well, my mom will tell you, quite vehemently, that the Catholic church ruined her childhood and she has spent most of her adulthood trying to mitigate the damage.

 

My response to her:  Okay, it ruined your childhood.  That was a shame.  You are now 85 years old.  Do you have a schedule for getting over it?  I think she is coming up with one but the jury is still out on that.

 

It's interesting.  Talk to my mom and the house she grew up in was horribly oppressive and warped her life.  Talk to her sister, who grew up in the same house, and it was kind and loving and everything was fine. 

 

As the saying goes, the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.

[the_new_simman 5]

Date: 12/30/2005 3:34:24 PM
Author: SkiGeek

Date: 12/30/2005 3:16:16 PM Author: the_new_simman

Date: 12/30/2005 3:10:29 PM Author: Duke87 Good for you! Don't let the church (or any other religious establishment) be the boss of you!

Seriously, people. religion is like alcohol. It's okay in moderation, but don't get drunk on it and let it ruin your life!

quote> I would have to disagree with you here. How can it ruin you life?

quote>

Well, my mom will tell you, quite vehemently, that the Catholic church ruined her childhood and she has spent most of her adulthood trying to mitigate the damage.

My response to her: 'Okay, it ruined your childhood. That was a shame. You are now 85 years old. Do you have a schedule for getting over it?' I think she is coming up with one but the jury is still out on that.

It's interesting. Talk to my mom and the house she grew up in was horribly oppressive and warped her life. Talk to her sister, who grew up in the same house, and it was kind and loving and everything was fine.

As the saying goes, the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.

quote>

You do understand the Catholic Church is much different now, much different motives ect. I know how the church and lifestyle was back then, and I can see how it ruins your life, but now in this day and age many things have changed for the better IMO.

The Catholic church is much different than it was 50 - 60 years ago.

EDIT: ugh..stupid quote bug.

[Joesocwork 4]

Guys,
The discussions and the various tangents are quite interesting.   However it should be remembered that the point of the thread is to share one's experiences and not necessarily debate the pros and cons of religion.  Members also really shouldn't be using the thread to convert members into or out of Christianity or any other belief system. The Community is quite diverse and even the most devout atheists and most devout Christians/Muslims/Jews/etc. aren't going to come to 100% agreement on everything; and that should be fine.

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

Joesocwork: Then you must end the entire thread now, before this gets out of hand.

Oh wait,... it already has.

 

 I know my forums ladies and gentlemen and I warned in a professional manner, once already in another thread; this cannot continue, even though I support it personally, or maybe you all do as well.  

 Having a sig verse is one thing, but Two new threads and a new trend at ST, that breaks Dirks guidelines by the way; have both opened up recently, claiming support.

 

This means I can legitimately open a thread titled, Satanists support thread, as well.

 

I really enjoyed talking with Vid in the Simtropolis Closet thread, it was great to get to know him and a few others so intimately, but even though I support that support also; that thread is completely deletable and so is this one.

 

 

 

[the_new_simman 5]

Date: 12/30/2005 5:39:16 PM
Author: frndofyaweh

Joesocwork: Then you must end the entire thread now, before this gets out of hand.

Oh wait,... it already has.

I know my forums ladies and gentlemen and I warned in a professional manner, once already in another thread; this cannot continue, even though I support it personally, or maybe you all do as well.

Having a sig verse is one thing, but Two new threads and a new trend at ST, that breaks Dirks guidelines by the way; have both opened up recently, claiming support.

This means I can legitimately open a thread titled, Satanists support thread, as well.

I really enjoyed talking with Vid in the Simtropolis Closet thread, it was great to get to know him and a few others so intimately, but even though I support that support also; that thread is completely deletable and so is this one.

quote>

I have to agree with you somewhat. I fully support this thread, but it WAS getting out of hand. It is now back on the right track.

I am sharing my beliefs and what I've been taught with Skigeesk and skigeek is sharing her thoughts and beliefs with me.

This thread can stay open, if we keep it going smoothly.

[jmusshorn 7]

Date: 12/30/2005 5:21:30 PM
Author: Joesocwork

The Community is quite diverse and even the most devout atheists and most devout Christians/Muslims/Jews/etc. aren't going to come to 100% agreement on everything; and that should be fine.

quote>
I couldn't agree with you more.

And seriously, I think that something should be said to the younger participants in this thread (I know that I'm young as well, but listen): Most of us in this thread are 14-18 years old; an age group that, while occasionally under a false-impression that they are old and wise, are still young. We lack the life experience and wisdom, as well as the seniority to speak as if we're %100 correct about anything, especially when it comes to religion.

My point is that we're still young. Rather than trying to prove why we're right about everything, I think that we should heed the wisdom that some of the older participants in this discussion have. They've been on this earth longer; they understand more than we do. We should respect and really ponder what they have to say.

If everyone can do that, we just might come out of this a little (or a lot) wiser.

Happy New Year

~Jamie~

[the_new_simman 5]

Date: 12/30/2005 5:45:41 PM
Author: jmusshorn

Date: 12/30/2005 5:21:30 PM

Author: Joesocwork

The Community is quite diverse and even the most devout atheists and most devout Christians/Muslims/Jews/etc. aren't going to come to 100% agreement on everything; and that should be fine.

quote>

I couldn't agree with you more.


And seriously, I think that something should be said to the younger participants in this thread (I know that I'm young as well, but listen): Most of us in this thread are 14-18 years old; an age group that, while occasionally under a false-impression that they are old and wise, are still young. We lack the life experience and wisdom, as well as the seniority to speak as if we're %100 correct about anything, especially when it comes to religion.


My point is that we're still young. Rather than trying to prove why we're right about everything, I think that we should heed the wisdom that some of the older participants in this discussion have. They've been on this earth longer; they understand more than we do. We should respect and really ponder what they have to say.


If everyone can do that, we just might come out of this a little (or a lot) wiser.


Happy New Year


~Jamie~

quote>

I agree with you totally, and I have fallen a victim to this already in this thread. I think I've finally figured out how to deal with this thread and its comments: Not Personally

I really think ST is a mature enough community to handle the Closet Thread and the House of Worship and probably a whole Church and State Forum with proper moderation for that matter.

But, Jmusshorn is right, we all need to put down our egos. (Not talking to everyone, but ppl know who they are. It includes me too) and actually speak of things that we know for sure are true, because some of the things in this thread are just plain false.

That being said, let's get on topic.

[TheCrybKeeper 301]

Date: 12/30/2005 5:21:30 PM Author: Joesocwork

Guys, The discussions and the various tangents are quite interesting.  However it should be remembered that the point of the thread is to share one's experiences and not necessarily debate the pros and cons of religion.  Members also really shouldn't be using the thread to convert members into or out of Christianity or any other belief system. The Community is quite diverse and even the most devout atheists and most devout Christians/Muslims/Jews/etc. aren't going to come to 100% agreement on everything; and that should be fine.

quote>

All the highlighted above is a True Way OF Life and that truth means, my experiences are actions and actions according to Gods own Word; is the best form of conversion.

 

THis thread IMO should not continue. Cannot stay On track either. By doing what you say Joe, I am committing a sin of omittion and contridicting my very Faith to it's core!

 I know this is off topic forum, but how far are we going to let this subject matter go, while giving it our downplayed labels to pass them off as, lifestyles/way of life/religious/ support threads, etc.?