Missing ALL (almost) after Re-Install

[new amsterdam 0]

Hi guys,

 

I did a complete Refresh-From Scratch Installation of my Laptop, now with windows 7.

From the last time I kept my quiet large Plugin Folder of SC4, which is pretty much organised; Folder for Dependencies, Sets, Growables etc.

So after reinstalling SC4 with the GOG version (and them included Updates to 641) I put for testing my Folder of previous installed Dependencies and some little Sets like BSC Canals or Paeng Park into my Plugin Folder. But none of these Lots show up in my menu. I downloaded them again, and they worked.

So my question is: Does my old previous Copied PluginFolder is worthless and I have to download everything single thing again?!?!

 

Much Oblieged.

PS (in short)

Is the Installation of Lots and Dependencies neccessary for working or does a copied file SHOULD work fine as well??

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

A great deal depends on where things got installed.  I got my version from GamersGate who were not on an ego trip at the time.  Everything went in the default catalogues used originally by Maxis, and all my plugins and regions were unaffected.

Now, something tells me that GOG has installed the user area with an intervening C:\GOG Games\ catalogue (directory, folder, whatever you like).  If this is so and your old game user area is still present, then all you need to do is copy the folders into the new structure in the corresponding places.  I purchased another game from GOG (Banished) and this is what they did.

If you are not familiar with the file system on your PC this may seem like an insurmountable task, but I assure you it is not.  Spend a little time with the help files with respect to copying folders and you will find that this is a rather trivial exercise.

Now, both the Plugins (folder) and the Regions (folder) can be copied holus bolus using drag and drop.  I forget which key you hold during this operation to get a copy rather than a move, and this is why I recommend you spend a little learning time with the help system.  You see, I am not on windows.  I haven't run windows since 2007, but the file system (NTFS) has not changed since then.

  Edited January 11, 2016 by A Nonny Moose  
Clarification

[rsc204 21,866]

1 hour ago, A Nonny Moose said:

I forget which key you hold during this operation to get a copy rather than a move

CTRL (Control) to Copy

SHIFT to Move 

CTRL + SHIFT to Create a shortcut.

[new amsterdam 0]

There only is the expected folder structure. D - the place where the installed game is and User/documents/SimCity 4/plugins

Which gave me the first impression of  "as usual" and so I just dropped my old saved plugin folder in there.

But thanks for fast answering. I hope for more

[rsc204 21,866]

GOG does by default alter the Programs location, but then since they are not Maxis, it's really not a big deal. They have the foresight to include the single core switch by default however, which speaks volumes IMO.

There is one plugins folder in this location, but the second one is located in My Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins just as with the disk versions. If you uninstalled the CD version from the same machine and elected to retain the save data, you possibly wouldn't need to do anything further.

There is nothing that ties the custom installed content to your install of SC4. Therefore if your old files were placed in the same location as the new downloads which are working, I can only assume something was wrong with the previous files. However, it's probably a good time to check if you uninstalled the CD version before you installed the digital one or not? Because if you didn't, it maybe the registry entries are pointing to the wrong install or throwing things off.

[new amsterdam 0]

There shouldnt be any trace of the old SC4 disk version, because I completely formatted my laptop and gave him a brand new windows 7 version and I stored my old (by the time working) Plugin folder on an external hard drive for later.

 

 

I also tried for example

-- just one plugin (the BSC Canals) without dependency and by the today downloaded installer - Worked.

-- my old plugin folder of the Canals -- Didn't Worked

--both folders with different name  -- also didn't Worked

(My older BSC Canal Base set, has the same size and identical files)

So I assume you are right when you say the files are kind of corrupted. But I can't imagine how...

OR WHAT TO DO!

I just simply can't start allover....

[rsc204 21,866]

I feel your pain, I only started a few years back, I often feel I'd be much better off if I had been along for the ride as it were.

I don't suppose you have any of my (MGB) mods that are suddenly not working? I could take a look at the files.

The problem with doing this with other plugins is that it's kind-of against the rules. Given the circumstances I'm inclined to make an exception if need be.

[new amsterdam 0]

I compared your mod list with the plugins that I have but didn't found any. My latest downloads were a few years back. Just the Jestar Dependencies you use I have in my old folder, which don't seem to work either.

Doesn't the Lot should appear in the menu even without the dependency?

Does a some kind of "Plugin Manager" could give me further answers?

[rsc204 21,866]

Perhaps you could trying running a DataNode scan on your plugins folder. It should pick up on errors in the contained files.

Indeed lots should appear in the menus, even if the dependencies are missing. If it's a fresh install it's hard to understand why the files, assuming located correctly, would not be functioning. Are they unmodified from the original downloads (I.e. not DATPacked).

Logically if this is affecting a number of files, that points to corruption/errors with the originals.

[new amsterdam 0]

I will give DataNode a try, this sounds promising. Thank you.

DATPacked? Don't know what this exactly is. But I didn't modified anything after the download/install process. Only sorting and cataloging since there is no limit due to subfolders and for my own structural sake.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

This all seems like a bit of an understanding problem.  With respect to file/folder names, on my system case matters.  Plugins is not plugins.  Here is my default user structure as created by the game installer and others:

SimCity 4
├── Albums
├── Archive
├── BSC_Cleanitol
├── Exception Reports
├── Exemplars
├── HTTPCache
├── LBT_Downloads
├── LEX_Downloads
├── NAM Auxiliary Files
├── Plugins
├── Regions
└── SimCity 4.cfg

11 directories, 1 file

Note the use of majescule (capital) letters.  Don't be afraid to use the shift key when typing.

 

[new amsterdam 0]

Mine looks quite the same. Except for Exemplars / Albums / Archive Folders.

[new amsterdam 0]

So today I tried my luck with the SC4DataNode. I have to admit my experiences and knowledge about programming makes me sit quiet in the back of class or even worse in the hallway.

So anyone who has more experience with this program is welcome to join the discussion. I scanned a particular folder (a single police station).  But I didn't found any self describing hint. The stations file appeared as harmless and working like the rest of the NAM dats which are actually working.

 

To put it mildly, I actually have now clou what I`m looking at. I can just compare working(appear in menu) files with non working files.

[new amsterdam 0]

And all I can see here is that I'm missing certain dependencies thus certain props they come along with.

But I cant say what "FSH" means. Exausting.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

FSH is a graphic file type.  I suspect this is the relevant reference.

Old technology never dies, it lies there awaiting resurrection.

[new amsterdam 0]

Yeah well good for it. Sadly this didn't get me any closer to my SC4 resurrection.

But can it be that because of missing graphic files the Lot doesn't appear in the menu?

[rsc204 21,866]

Technically the items should always appear, provided a lot file exists. If plopped/grown such items would then display issues as a result.

The thing is, looking at the brief glimce you posted from DataNode, it seems a lot is missing. This does lead me to question the integrity of your existing Plugins folder. If things are really in that state, sometimes it's better to ditch it and move on :/.

Before we do that, find a lot file that will not appear in game (must be ploppable, growables never appear in menus). Send me this file, I will need to know exactly what download it is so I can get the requisite files installed. So try to pick something with an obvious name or in a pack you remember. If you've a couple from the same set, even better. I can then analyse at least the lot files to see if indeed there is some problem with them. This is within the rules, but whatever you do don't send models please. If you attach them here or on a PM I'll get back to you ASAP.

[new amsterdam 0]

Well thats sounds like a plan. Thank in forward for such effort, seriously.

I try to send you something right away..after dinner.

[new amsterdam 0]

I did another complete Re-Install with the GOG version and added my bldg_prop.

[rsc204 21,866]

Well the plot thickens...

Initial tests, nosing around at the innards of the files show no discernible problem with the files. However, just like you, I can not see these items in the menus. I checked, everything needed to link the objects seems to be there. Now I'd write it off as file corruption, except...

I've used the LotPlop cheat (requires Buggi's ExtraCheats.dll) and found the lots there. I've then manually plopped the items you uploaded. All of them are working.

I must say I'm hard-pressed to understand this behaviour. I will ask over on SC4D in addition to here, maybe someone else has experience of something similar? I've been very active in the area of problems and don't recall every seeing anything like this.

In the meantime I need to do some more thorough checking of the files, by comparing them at a low level with a working downloaded set for differences.

When trying to understand such problems, the more information you can provide that might explain what I'm seeing, the more likely your problem is to be resolved. What I explicitly need to know is exactly how these files have been handled since they were last working. For example, were any of the following operations carried out on the files:

• Automated Backups (with the files restored later).
• How many times the files were moved/copied. What devices (if more than one) were used?
• Were any operations carried out on the files that could edit them in any way?
• Have the files been encrypted at some point or stored on encrypted volumes?
• Anything else you can provide to give a picture of the life of these files.

I assure you, I will do all I can to try and find a solution for you.

[new amsterdam 0]

Wow, I can say how much I admire your support.

There is one thing I forgot to mention. Last time these mods, better say all of mine, worked were before I formated my old laptop completly.  While I was building up my SC4 content and not really playing it, I used to have the DAMN Manager, because I was simply overwhelmed with Menus.

Maybe this programm kind of "corrupted" my files.

Besides that I only had the SC4 Launcher and BSC Cleanitol. Nothing else. No personal modification of mods.

My old plugin structure looked about like that. Indeed this is my saved Plugin Folder.

 

1D - my Dependencies

y_Sets (Sets for IndRevolution, Fillers, Paths, Seawalls etc.)

z_aBuildings ( Subfolders for Civic, Landmarks, Rewards, Traffic(mostly Stations and Parkin) etc.

z_bBuildings (Growables for RCI and an extra Plop Folder)

I guess the rest in the list is selfexplaining.

[rsc204 21,866]

I'm not overly familiar with DAMM, not using it myself. However, I understand you need to create a series of links that allow the DAMM system to index the content and organise it.

I'm thinking the reason they don't appear in menus, is something to do with the process of the DAMM. This would explain why LotPlop works, because all that's missing is the link to place an item in menus.

Do you still have the related DAMM files/index? I'm guessing but they've become a dependency of sorts for the content to work as expected. If you don't have them, possibly you can still just re-setup them anew and it would work. You could test a few to see if it brings them back. If we stick to the three uploaded packages as a test, that would be useful.

As a last resort, whatever was removed to stop the menus from appearing could be manually restored somehow. This would be pretty tedious, but perhaps less-so than finding/re-downloading it all. Also the Reader is a very smart application, you can make multiple similar entries quickly with a few tips. We'll worry about that if we need to, for now I think that DAMM is the best lead towards a fix.

And it's no trouble to help, once a techie, always a techie. Problem solving keeps me sharp.

[new amsterdam 0]

Haha, great. And I need you sharp for this operation!

Allright. I try my luck with DAMN Manager. Just found the old Root Folder of the manager.

[new amsterdam 0]

I installed DAMN Manager. The programm found my 3 plugins, showed my little preview pics and additional information. No sign of them not being there and ready for using.
 Of course within the game nothing changed.

I opened my old Exported DAMN Menu, which looks exactly as my old Plugin Folder. After I found the 3 pieces in there within the game I was able to plop them by using DAMN Manager Menu in the newsletter box. Other Lots of course didnt work. So far so good. That means I could possibly go back and play SC4 with DAMN.

BUT and here is the dilemma. I didnt wanted to use these mangager this time, because after a while it is way to uncomfortable for me.

(and whats with these squares in the left building)

[rsc204 21,866]

Squares are a rendering issue, the least of your problems right now, but probably fixable all the same.

I'm trying to find some information on what exactly the DAMM changes, with a view to seeing how to restore normal operation. However, that would be a lot of work on your part, depending on how many files we're talking about really.

UPDATE:

Solution thanks to Vortext on SC4D:

Quote

Do the building exemplars still have Lot Resource Key property?

DAMN-ing lots makes a duplicate of the building exemplar, without this property, and stores the duplicate in zzzzzz_DAMN_Hidden. If the user has dat-packed the original files and the zzzzzz_DAMN_Hidden folder than the original building exemplar would've been overridden with the DAMN-ed building exemplar, thus breaking the link between building and lot.

To elaborate: the DAMN also makes a duplicate of the icon which it stores in the DAMN root folder in the Program Files, along with modified LTexts and LUA - which establishes an alternative connection between lot and building.

I've tested opening the Lot Files in the reader and manually adding back the Lot Resource Keys. It's one property only, but you need to add it and copy an 8-digit ID for every affected lot. That is unless you've backups of the unmodified files from DAMM.

I guess the question is which do you prefer, accepting to use the DAMN system or editing every lot by hand. The good news is, with the DAMM system working, you can always work on restoring the content into the menus over time, knowing they are at least in the DAMN menus in the interim.

[new amsterdam 0]

These are indeed good news. Sorry for not mentioning DAMM before, I just didnt draw the line till the end. More or less right now I'm trying to get mods out of DAMM, which didnt worked so far, but we will see. As far as I can remember I downloaded everything and then gave DAMM manager a try. So its a big FUBAR.

And download everything again sound kinda better to me than working on every singe lot.

The bad pill still is that I cant say  how much Growables Lots are affected, if so. If not then the whole download-again-process sounds way more comfortable to me.

Cheers to you.

[Compdude787 916]

3 hours ago, new amsterdam said:

The bad pill still is that I cant say  how much Growables Lots are affected, if so. If not then the whole download-again-process sounds way more comfortable to me.

Cheers to you.

Growable lots shouldn't be affected. They don't show up in your menus, so they wouldn't have been modified by the DAMN in any way.

[rsc204 21,866]

59 minutes ago, Compdude787 said:

Growable lots shouldn't be affected. They don't show up in your menus, so they wouldn't have been modified by the DAMN in any way.

Indeed.

The thing is, whilst going through every lot might sound a challenge, the process of fixing them is really simple and takes but seconds per lot. If you'd like instructions on how, just let me know.