Islamophobia in the U.S.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

This is going to start causing international incidents, Obama. Wake up!

Since Mr. Mahmood called on his MP, I think we can guess he is a British citizen.  The gentleman is out his air fare for 18 people (£9,000).  This is not chump change, and I also postulate that any deposits made in the U.S. will also not be coming back.  If any of his family members are on a no-fly list, I think they need to be informed.

The silence is deafening.

[MilitantRadical 2,844]

If you want to fly make sure people in your family don't have this on their facebook page:

[Duke87 1,070]

This particular item appears to have been dug up by ITV News.

And it reeks of tabloid speculation. The US State Department has not said why this family was denied entry, so we therefore do not know why. But, the human mind being what it is, we always without fail start making things up whenever we don't have actual facts. So, someone found this Facebook page and said "maybe that's why". Someone noted that one of the mean was previously denied entry to Israel and said likewise. And of course, there's the overarching theme the press is running with of "they were denied entry because they're Muslim".

It must be kept in mind that absolutely none of this has been substantiated. The state department is under no legal obligation to explain why someone was denied entry, and unless Obama orders them to they probably won't. The homeland security apparatus, naturally, does not want to show their hand and reveal what the potential red flags are because if that information becomes publicly known, nefarious individuals can use it to avoid triggering any. It also, quite conveniently, shields the people responsible from accountability.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Isn't this a bit of a two way street.  The Brits are out a large amount of money and there is clearly some prevarication here.  You are completely right about the lack of transparency.  Far too many bureaucrabs exercise unwonted power because nobody checks their balances.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

£9,000 is chump change to the US government and can easily be reimbursed if it diffuses an international incident. The article said the family had 11 members unless I read it wrong.

 

While I hold neither hatred nor any ill will towards any human being who practices nonviolence (or better yet, pacifism like myself), I am afraid of ultra conservative ideologies that condone violence. The Old Testament has many examples that Jeshua of Nazareth nullified but the Koran (written centuries later) is darker than the Old Testament and the worst of Revelations. As such, I vehemently oppose Mormonism, Zionism, Islam, every Christian sect more conservative than Catholicism under Pope Francis, and all cults because of my fear of religious violence.

[krbe 193]

Being denied entry to the US, or better yet, not allowed on a plane that flies over US territory, happens seemingly at random. Nobody knows why, nobody knows who, nobody knows how. Quite naturally, you must have some connection to something that Americans view as wrong or morally abhorrent, and while being a Muslim greatly increases your chances of winning the lottery, it is by no means a prerequisite. Remember the guys who were kicked out of the US for wanting to dig up Marilyn Monroe? That Facebook page Militant shows above is in the same category.

However, the American bureaucracy fears everything that it takes a bit of research to understand, and for good measure they include everything that might seem to be somehow connected. For example, the Americans managed to destroy what little civilisation was left in Somalia in 2001 when they finally managed to get the al-Barakaat group of companies on the UN terror list. The FBI had been clamouring for that for years. Their crime? They made it possible, via the hawala system, to remit money to Somalia, and the FBI believed that they had ties to terrorism, but despite the blacklisting, they never managed to prove their allegations. However, the non-Western way of doing business proved to be enough.

I hear Donald J Trump is frequently alleged an Islamophobe for wanting to bar entry to America to all non-citizen Muslims. While there are probably a number of highly qualified Germans at or near the retirement age that could help him devise his Muslim registry and design the mark they must bear, I do honestly believe that the first part of the plan is way better than the current system. Why? Because it presupposes that Mr Trump actually finds out how to deal with the problem of Islamic terrorism. The current dark system will be replaced by one that bars entry on the grounds that you are a Muslim. That means you know why, you who and you know how to deal with your denied entry. Yes, it will affect more people. But is the current GDR methods any better just because the number of targets are less?

At least its something else than what Mr Obama does, who recently legalised the financing of the most heinous terror groups around. In gross violation of international law, but I guess its more important to keep those monies flowing than to stem the tide of terror.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

There was a woman who was denied entry into the USA on her way to a Caribbean cruise. The reasoning was that she was "mentally ill" for taking SSRI's for restless leg syndrome. She was only going to spend a night or so before taking her cruise (which goes through international waters). I wonder what happened to her?

[Compdude787 916]

Really? SSRIs are antidepressants. I've never considered depression to be a mental illness that could make you cause harm to other people. 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Seems to be a lack of supervision in the U.S. Border Service.  I haven't been in the U.S. since they started requiring passports for Canadian citizens, and I won't be going there ever again, I suppose.  In the overall scheme of things, I believe that the terrorists have beaten the United States into a state of fear.  This is so, so sad.

[Ocram's Razr 963]

1 hour ago, Compdude787 said:

Really? SSRIs are antidepressants. I've never considered depression to be a mental illness that could make you cause harm to other people. 

I remember making a comment about about how I would make sure I got my money back one way (lawsuit) or another (forged checks, which the government must reimburse banks for) if I was in her position. Really, when the government breaks some of its own laws to oppress, breaking other laws to protest (nonviolent civil disobedience) becomes an acceptable option. 

[LexusInfernus 908]

2 hours ago, Compdude787 said:

Really? SSRIs are antidepressants. I've never considered depression to be a mental illness that could make you cause harm to other people. 

You should read the voucher that comes with a lot of anti depressants. Possible side effects include psychosis and violent behavior. Quite a few people commit murders while under the influence of anti depressants. Indeed, one of the few things that links a lot of spree shooters is the fact that they are on anti depressants. 

Also, I'm not sure if you heard about this in the states, but a few months ago a German pilot locked the other pilot out of the cockpit when he took a bathroom break and proceeded to fly the plane into the side of the mountain. This pilot was depressed and wanted to kill himself and take as many people with him. 

Of course, that is not to say that people who are depressed and on anti depression medication are violent murderers. 

[Compdude787 916]

Just now, LexusInfernus said:

You should read the voucher that comes with a lot of anti depressants. Possible side effects include psychosis and violent behavior. Quite a few people commit murders while under the influence of anti depressants. Indeed, one of the few things that links a lot of spree shooters is the fact that they are on anti depressants. 

Also, I'm not sure if you heard about this in the states, but a few months ago a German pilot locked the other pilot out of the cockpit when he took a bathroom break and proceeded to fly the plane into the side of the mountain. This pilot was depressed and wanted to kill himself and take as many people with him. 

Of course, that is not to say that people who are depressed and on anti depression medication are violent murderers. 

Okay, I see why this would have been a problem.

[Meg 368]

5 hours ago, OcramSeattle said:

There was a woman who was denied entry into the USA on her way to a Caribbean cruise. The reasoning was that she was "mentally ill" for taking SSRI's for restless leg syndrome. She was only going to spend a night or so before taking her cruise (which goes through international waters). I wonder what happened to her?

That's ridiculous.   Millions of Americans take anti-depressants [link], many of which are SSRIs like Prozac, Paxil, Lexapro, etc.

[Sabretooth78 808]

10 hours ago, krbe said:

Being denied entry to the US, or better yet, not allowed on a plane that flies over US territory, happens seemingly at random. Nobody knows why, nobody knows who, nobody knows how. Quite naturally, you must have some connection to something that Americans view as wrong or morally abhorrent, and while being a Muslim greatly increases your chances of winning the lottery, it is by no means a prerequisite. Remember the guys who were kicked out of the US for wanting to dig up Marilyn Monroe? That Facebook page Militant shows above is in the same category.

The whole security theatre (that's what it is, theatre) is horribly random.  In fact, to assuage our concerns over security and unwarranted/unconstitutional search and seizure, while leaving KBUF for our trip to the Caribbean, my wife had a bag flagged which happened to be due to a bottle of sunscreen which was over the [arbitrary] 3 oz limit (or whatever it is).  We were able to check the bag for free (we had actually accidentally checked an intended carry-on instead) and as we were leaving the "security" area, one of the attendants actually said to us "oh, these machines are always randomly picking things up" (or that was the gist of it; I forget the exact words).  I felt like telling her she probably shouldn't have said that but I knew better than to do so.  So just remember, the machines pick up different things, and if you have 18 oz of whatever you want to get onto an airplane, make sure it's in at least 6 containers (or else you'll just have to throw it into the trash can with the other potentially explosive items with far more people walking by to target than you'd ever get with just a single airliner - i.e. trash can explosions are OK).  Also, people <12 yo and >75 yo need not remove their shoes.  The "terrorist" boogeymen apparently have qualms using those outside the 12-75 age range.

There was then just a woman with twins basically getting interrogated due to trying to get baby formula through at KJFK (an airport I'm convinced should sully some more deserving politician's name, IMHO; perhaps Sheldon Silver instead of our last decent president).

The amount of meddling in the transportation security affairs of sovereign nations is also bogus.  I wish more nations would be like Iceland was with those FBI/CIA agents or whatever they were and basically say "eff off" and get out of here.

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

When we were going through security at Narita the security people had us open the thermoses we were using for our youngest son's formula (he was 6 mos. old at the time).  My wife didn't close the one bottle securely so the (fairly attractive) security girl had me open it to show it was hot water.  She was laughing the whole time because in Japan, they don't think everyone is trying to bomb them.  I can only imagine how that would have played out at any large airport in the US.  We'd have been swiftly escorted away from everyone, had our belongings molested by indignant, untrained mongoloids making minimum wage who deal with the public with open contempt, be thoroughly and embarrassingly searched (probably including out kids) and forced to miss our flight as they keep us in a small room while they "investigate."  Because things in this country are stupid and I'm reminded almost every day that it was a horrible idea to leave Japan.  The more we talk about it, the more we think we should head back next year (2017 to avoid confusion).  We'll see how it plays out, but the election certainly isn't helping America's case at all.

[Sabretooth78 808]

As we were following the signs to our criminal proceedings at JFK (i.e. customs) I was musing how I would almost rather be following the "orange line" (visitors) instead of the "green line" (residents).  Granted, politics notwithstanding, we were also coming back from vacation.  We'll see.  This was actually my first time in 3 trips where my passport scan didn't get x'ed, meaning you have to go through a special line.  Supposedly it's random screening, although I was honestly disappointed I didn't get flagged since both times prior we got through the process much faster (no line).  I guess I need to make another contribution to the Libertarian party or some other similar non-endorsed "extremist" group.

Isn't it also great how they can randomly open and root through your bags outside of your presence?  Who knew that wasn't a violation of some Constitutional right.  We had one of those returning from our first trip.  Guess what they found?  A suitcase full of dirty laundry.  That was a nice little laugh for unpacking the following morning.  I now make a point to put some loose dirty underwear on the top of each bag.  What's the worst that happens, it falls out and I'm out a pair of tighty-whities?  Small price to pay for a good laugh.

Anyway I apologize for adding nothing about islamophobia.  To bring the discussion back full circle, who created the TSA (not to mention invented Obamacare)?

Republicans.

[Odainsaker 2,133]

Worryingly, I went through airport security about 5 times with a box cutting blade in my wallet.  It had been in there as a spare blade for so many years that I had forgotten about it and it became buried in the deep recesses under wallet clutter.  The scanning monitor agent at San Antonio's SAT worked with me to dig it out on the inspection table, and as it took several passes to pinpoint just which fold it was lodged in, I had years worth of business cards and phone number scraps spread out all over the place.  After confiscating my blade they merrily sent me on my way, no questioning or paperwork...I guess they've seen and confiscated worse, and I wasn't going to make a fuss to jeopardize my flight to Vegas.  On a previous trip, the security scanners didn't see it at New York's LGA, where security was both understandably both more omnipresent and chaotic.  Interestingly, the large and loud family behind me at LGA were likely Muslim given their dress and accents, and I noticed even then several years ago that they were getting extra scrutiny just as their shoes were being removed and placed in the scanning trays.  I guess I'm too meek, while everyone was instead looking at the loud, ethnic family.  The family inevitably got pulled aside for extra treatment, while clean-cut me was let through with a blade inadvertently hidden away.  It is suspected that the clean-shaven, Western-dressed 9/11 hijackers may have used box cutters when they seized control of the planes.

 

 

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

That's a pretty good point.  If you are planning something nefarious, you try to "look like the innocent flow'r" (MacBeth) and not the serpent under it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Speaking of innocent flowers ...

What is it that makes a religious nut?  Here is yet another home-groan example.