Intel HD 2500 graphics and DirectX rendering

[former_member 665840 125]

With DirectX rendering, terrain mods with HD textures don't cause a CTD, shadows are high-quality when set to high-quality... but 3D glitches make the game unplayable:

• Destroying anything causes the UI to go nuts until the demolition eye-candy is finished playing out.
• Destroying larger objects also causes polygons to fly everywhere.
• If there is just one single lot anywhere within the city tile that is using a 3D retaining wall to adapt to uneven terrain, the entire city along with the UI start glitching out (regardless of the camera's orientation and position).

 

There's also OpenGL rendering, but despite being hardware-based, terrain mods with HD textures cause a CTD. Additionally, shadows (despite being set to high-quality), are forced to medium-quality; aside from looking like ugly blobs, the amount of z-fighting I see between them and lot textures/the terrain is absurd.

As for software rendering? Terrain mods with HD textures cause a CTD as expected, and graphics and performance are awful.
 

I've tried different resolutions (fullscreen and windowed make no difference), enabling/disabling Windows Aero (I usually use the classic theme), playing vanilla (no mods), reinstalling SC4+RH, and reinstalling my graphics driver to no avail. Any ideas? :c

Relevant  info:

• SC4+RH version 1.1.640.0
• Intel Core i5-3570 processor (non-K model)
• Intel HD 2500 graphics (part of the processor) <- Latest drivers as of 23/06/2014
• 2x4GB (8GB total) DDR3 1600 memory <- Passes memtest86+ with flying colours
• Intel DQ77MK motherboard <- Latest drivers as of 23/06/2014
• Windows 7 Professional x86_64

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

I had lots of problems too with an old integrated card.  There's no magical solution to make the card better.  You'll either just have to keep fiddling with settings and hope you can get it to improve a little bit, or drop some money into a dedicated video card.

 

It looks to be a big choke point in your system anyway, I think you'd be very pleased with the massive difference a dedicated card (even under $100 USD) would make.

[Compdude787 916]

I have the same problem with an Intel HD Graphics 4000 on Windows 8.1, but I can't go out and get a dedicated graphics card because it's a laptop. Integrated graphics are often found in laptops anyway, so this is something that can't be dealt with short of getting a different computer.

 

Before I upgraded to Windows 8.1 from Windows 8, I didn't have any graphics problems with the game. Since you're having these problems on Windows 7 (which really worries me), I'd suggest finding a version of your graphics driver that was made before Windows 8.1 came out. I think that some of the changes Intel made to their drivers to support Win8.1 came at the cost of messing things up with older games like SC4. And Windows 8.1 has an updated version of WDDM (Windows Display Driver Model) that makes some Direct3D performance improvements on Direct3D 9 and newer, and since DirectX 9 was what SC4 was designed on, chances are that the changes MS made to WDDM may have messed some things up in SC4. The reason why you might be having these problems on Windows 7 is because you updated the driver to a version with Win8.1 support. 

 

Let me know if you have any success finding an older driver that will play nice with this game. I'd really like to know if this works for you, since I'm planning on downgrading (ahem, upgrading, excuse me! ) to Windows 7 to see if that would fix the problem. Windows 8 worked fine with this game; if I'd known this would be a problem, I would have just stuck with it or gone back to Windows 7.

  Edited June 24, 2014 by Compdude787  

[rsc204 21,804]

I had this problem with the Intel 4600 graphics in my Core i7 Desktop. Open GL works well, but it means no HD mods. The issue seems to be with the graphics drivers from Intel, and I don't think it's a priority to them to fix it. I'd be interested to know if anyone knows of a driver version that will work with SC4, apparently there is one. The second problem is finding that driver, since Intel don't publish driver archives.

 

Personally I put an old Radeon 3870 in my new PC to use HD mods because I couldn't solve it. It's a pitty, otherwise the Intel 4600 is more than I need, I'm a bit miffed considering the cost of the processor that it's part of and I bought the PC for playing SC4.

[Sabretooth78 808]

If you're running a desktop PC, bypassing an integrated graphics card is pretty easy.  Pop the new one in, boot, disable the old one, and go on your merry way.  Depending on your financial situation you could probably find a more than adequate one on eBay for a reasonable price (I did that once, several years ago).

 

FWIW, I can't run hardware rendering either but it's not a dealbreaker.  Depending on your playing style, you'll miss out on some things but this game has more than enough other features (and custom content available) to make up for it.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

In a quick scan, I didn't see which version of DirectX people are using.  This game was released with DirectX 7.  It was found in the XP time-frame that DirectX 9.0c was the ideal.  What has the experience been with later versions?  I exited the windows scene at this point. 

[former_member 665840 125]

I backed up my Graphics Rules.sgr file and I've been trying out various things with it (with varying degrees of success). I'll resume my efforts later tonight.

For whatever it's worth, these are all of the properties that SC4 reports it can parse in the aforementioned file.

 

On an unrelated note, if there's a silver lining to this so far, it's that I can use property useScreenShake false (aside from being slightly annoying, there have been a few occasions where I had to save and exit to region because the camera was stuck shaking. No more!).

[Compdude787 916]

In a quick scan, I didn't see which version of DirectX people are using.  This game was released with DirectX 7.  It was found in the XP time-frame that DirectX 9.0c was the ideal.  What has the experience been with later versions?  I exited the windows scene at this point.

I thought SC4 would use DirectX 9, but it seems like it only requires DirectX 7. I was looking at the Wikipedia article for DirectX, and apparently DirectX 9 was released about a month before SC4 was, so that would explain why it doesn't use DirectX 9. Those of us using Windows 8.1 would have DirectX 11.2 (11.1 was what came with Windows 8 ). DirectX generally has a fair amount of backwards compatibility, but I'm not surprised that it no longer perfectly supports games that were written for the nearly 15 year-old DirectX 7.

[former_member 665840 125]

Hmm, still no luck. I might throw in the towel on this one, it doesn't look like anything possible with Graphics Rules.sgr can contain a polygon's will to fly. No cigar with different graphics driver versions either.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I am beginning to think that we are now skating on the edge of no longer being able to run SC4 on a current windows machine.  The game has been static for over a decade, but the hardware/software marches on.

 

So far, so good on Linux/wine.

[former_member 665840 125]

I'm tempted to grab this video card. Does anyone know if the GeForce GT 740 family works well with SC4? I can't seem to find any mention of it elsewhere on ST.

Off-topic:

So far, so good on Linux/wine.

My workstation is the only system left in my house that has Windows on it (everything else is running Debian Wheezy/Jessie or OpenWRT). At this point, the only thing keeping me from switching over entirely is the painful lack of support for professional audio production software (DAWs, plugins, and so on. Firewire audio interface support, on the other hand, works great for me; Thank you, FFADO!).

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

I recently installed a GTX 750 Ti.  It's a little more than needed for SC4, what you're looking at should be fine.  The Nvidia GeForces seem to get along great.

 

Although, sometimes when you install modern video cards, the game does not recognize them.  You have to do some fiddling around in the Graphics Rules file; there's a  It's really finicky because it's hard to determine the exact name of the card you need to add to the file for SC4 to recognize it.  Of course, you only need to do this if you experience any problems in SC4 (laggy scrolling, tinted colors, disappearing props were my problems) after installing the card.  It might just work right away.

[Sabretooth78 808]

Works well enough with my GeForce GT 650M, granted I'm on a MacBook Pro so the overall situation is entirely different.  I believe the 740 is just the latest iteration.

[former_member 665840 125]

Grabbed it, should be here Saturday; If I mark this thread as solved and don't post back, it'll be safe to assume everything went as desired.

The card is definitely overkill for SC4, but not so much for some other software + games I use (Photoshop, Krita, Kerbal Space Program, and even VMWare). I should've installed a dedicated GPU a while back, to be honest.
 

Thanks guys!

[former_member 665840 125]

Amazon being Amazon, the card arrived a day early.

Well, SC4 works (and without any graphical glitches) if it's launched fullscreen. On the other hand, it immediately dies whenever I try to launch it windowed ("immediately" isn't hyperbole: It doesn't even get a chance to write its logfile if the -WriteLog:on flag is set). I guess I still have some poking around to do.

(I should mention I wasn't able to resolve it by modifying the per-application settings in the Nvidia control panel.)

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I always run full screen.  Of course, being on Linux, I can switch desktops and leave the game mumbling away to itself.  It doesn't seem to realize it has lost focus in this case.  Does ALT+TAB still work under Windows when SC4 is running full screen?

[former_member 665840 125]

I always run full screen.  Of course, being on Linux, I can switch desktops and leave the game mumbling away to itself.  It doesn't seem to realize it has lost focus in this case.  Does ALT+TAB still work under Windows when SC4 is running full screen?

I don't mind running full screen too much, and it still handles losing focus fine (the -gp flag is certainly convenient).

To be honest, the only thing I truly miss is being able to see the system clock at a glance. Interestingly, this is something supported in SC3KU (you can bring up the system clock by clicking within the empty area around the map):

 

[Sabretooth78 808]

If you have the extracheats.dll, there is a cheat code "ShowTime" that will pop up a little window with a clock that I believe will stay open for the duration of the session (now if only terrainquery did that).  It can be moved around; I would usually put on top of some empty area of the "dock".  It can be activated in, and is persistent in Region view as well.

 

I now run SC4 "full screen" in a virtual desktop window that is not quite full screen so it doesn't really serve a purpose for me anymore.

 

[Compdude787 916]

I always run full screen.  Of course, being on Linux, I can switch desktops and leave the game mumbling away to itself.  It doesn't seem to realize it has lost focus in this case.  Does ALT+TAB still work under Windows when SC4 is running full screen?

When I had it on full screen, when I alt-tabbed out of the game, it would always take 5-10 seconds to get back to the desktop and then another 5-10 seconds to get back into the game. When I have it in windowed mode, I can go back to the desktop or pull up another program immediately. This is much easier for all those times where I need to pull up the NAM menu and take a look at how to do those draggable FAR patterns. Whenever I load up SC4, I always auto-hide the taskbar so that it isn't blocking the SC4 UI.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Different operating systems, different techniques.  However, windowed mode does add a layer of overhead.  If you find your game slowing down, try it full screen.

[Compdude787 916]

I don't notice any hit to performance when I run the game in windowed mode as opposed to fullscreen mode.

[former_member 665840 125]

If you have the extracheats.dll, there is a cheat code "ShowTime" that will pop up a little window with a clock that I believe will stay open for the duration of the session (now if only terrainquery did that).  It can be moved around; I would usually put on top of some empty area of the "dock".  It can be activated in, and is persistent in Region view as well.

 

I wish I could upvote you twice. Thanks!

[Golhbul 134]

I have the same problem with an Intel 4600HD ...

I don't understand ... Can anyone explain me clearly how to remedy it, I'm a french player.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Take a look at your control panel for that GPU.  You may have to turn off all advanced options, including all 3D assists.  This game was written in the 2000 time frame and knows nothing about new cards.

 

When running legacy games, don't expect them to do well with the latest hardware.  The game has not be updated since 2003.

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

Take a look at your control panel for that GPU.  You may have to turn off all advanced options, including all 3D assists.

 

Such options don't even exist for integrated cards.  They just aren't built for playing video games.

 

 

I have the same problem with an Intel 4600HD ...

I don't understand ... Can anyone explain me clearly how to remedy it, I'm a french player.

 

Acheter une meilleure graphics card---unless you want to spend days and days looking for a specific video driver software version that works well with SimCity 4.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I have an integrated graphics chip, namely and AMD780.  When it was supported (no longer) the Catalyst Controls worked just fine with it.  I suspect that Intel expects anyone who uses their chips to supply a control panel app.

 

For some ridiculous reason, some person in authority at AMD, decided to abandon the Linux fraternity, probably due to the high cost of keeping up with Windoze, so this chip is now supported without controls by the X-org default driver.  Funny, but I don't have a problem with it with respect to either rendering mode in SC4.  Maybe it is because the default for Linux is OpenGL.

 

I was unaware that people on Windoze were getting GPUs with no controls.  Really too bad as I thought that this was peculiar to the environment I am running.

[rsc204 21,804]

 

Take a look at your control panel for that GPU.  You may have to turn off all advanced options, including all 3D assists.

 

Such options don't even exist for integrated cards.  They just aren't built for playing video games.

 

 

I have the same problem with an Intel 4600HD ...

I don't understand ... Can anyone explain me clearly how to remedy it, I'm a french player.

 

Acheter une meilleure graphics card---unless you want to spend days and days looking for a specific video driver software version that works well with SimCity 4.

 

 

First there is a Control Pannel for settings on the Intel HD4600, it's just very sparse compared to the NVidia or ATI equivalents (I would argue most of these settings are a total waste of time personally anyhow). As for saying these cards aren't built for playing games, that's a total fallacy and based on an outdated view of how integrated cards used to be terrible. The HD4600 is really the first time I've experienced an integrated solution that I could have lived with and it does play many games well at HD resolutions. The problem is Intel's driver support was non-existent before they started making graphics chips and so many games made before that can have problems.

 

As for fixing the problem you can change to OpenGL rendering, but this has the drawback that no HD mods can be installed. The other option is simply buying another videocard, eventually I got a GTX 750ti, but you don't need to spend nearly as much if you just play SC4 a budget 30-40€ card would work just as well. I'm certain (spent a lot of time trying to fix this) that Intel's drivers do not support the game very well and probably never will. If such a problem occurred with an ATI or NVidia card's drivers tomorrow, I'm pretty sure either of them would fix the problem, legacy software or not. Intel aren't really interested in such legacy support, but there is something wrong about having to waste a great chip and chuck in an additional card at expense for the sake of the drivers.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

^ Have you actually tried OpenGL with SC4.  The last time I tried it, it failed.  I don't think the code is complete nor up to date.  Many functions Maxis used have been denigrated.

[rsc204 21,804]

Yes, it works for the most part, I suppose its quality depends on your Video Card and how well the drivers support it really.

 

That said I couldn't live without my HD terrain mod, amongst other things, so rather than downgrade I bought a replacement card. Some may prefer the other route though. DirectX Hardware rendering is unplayable with my Intel card, the graphical glitches are just too all-encompassing and software rendering just really sucks, so options really are OpenGL (which is the lesser of the evils here) or a new card, Your out of luck if you have a laptop with Intel graphics and no 2nd graphics chip.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

What a nice surprise.  I just tried it and it now works.  Must have been something between wine and the program.  Native mode for my Linux machine is, of course, OpenGL.  I'll have to try this further, but there is a chance that it will be somewhat faster.

 

Glad you brought this up. 

 

BTW, my graphics chip set is an AMD780 no longer supported by the AMD/ATI Catalyst system.  I think that now I know why.